[pachyderm]

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...game-of-death/

Wowzers! This is frightening! Thanks for posting.

[AkAngel]

I must admit, this topic always tends to push my buttons. I have read of Milgrams experiments before, saw films, read analysis etc. but what I find so incredibly disturbing and frightening - and frankly, what makes me feel so alone in the world, is the fact that EVERYONE who hears about this thinks that it's terrible that people would do such a thing. Terrible that people would blindly follow the directions of authority...

Yeah, just like a good percentage of the people who are talking about how terrible it is and how weak those people must be would have done if they were in their place. Just like they accept immoral and unjust laws and rules placed on them by a government that they don't even trust. Just like they stand by and go along with it when that government sends it's soldiers, in their name, to die in a war that they do not believe we should be fighting. People will die and they will do nothing.

[perpetuallysad]

AkAngel, while I can appreciate the parallels you draw, I don't think the two situations are a fair comparison. Whether good or bad, right or wrong, when people are removed from direct involvement in a situation, like a war, it is much easier for people to accept things they don't necessarily support. In a situation where a person is directly doing something, shocking people, or whatever, they are part of it, not removed-it is something that their actions (or inaction) affect at that moment.

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

AkAngel, while I can appreciate the parallels you draw, I don't think the two situations are a fair comparison. Whether good or bad, right or wrong, when people are removed from direct involvement in a situation, like a war, it is much easier for people to accept things they don't necessarily support. In a situation where a person is directly doing something, shocking people, or whatever, they are part of it, not removed-it is something that their actions (or inaction) affect at that moment.

That is a fair observation and I withdraw the latter part of my argument (though strong feelings remain). The first part of my argument remains though - it seems that everyone is shocked and repulsed and yet, as many times as they did this experiment, in as many countries as they duplicated the test, a huge number of people went on to hurt people because they were told to. Many went on believing that they killed the person because they were instructed to.

Everyone who hears of the test knows that THEY wouldn't do it but the reality is, many of them would. They, in many cases, are those people. Be it Milgrams experiment or becoming a drug addict, someone who commits a crime or someone with a mental health problem brought on by childhood - the tendency of people to sit in judgment and think that they are stronger than others may have been because they have been blessed to not have the same challenges.

It is not the people who frustrate me, but the prejudice and self-righteousness born of ignorance.

[perpetuallysad]

I understand what you are saying. And I'm glad you didn't take my statements wrong. I was sort of nervous to read your response. I sincerely appreciate how nice it is to discuss something intelligently with someone!

And I agree with your conclusions that everyone seems so upset and disgusted (rightly so) and say they would never do that, but really, we just don't know what we would do until we are personally in the situation. Power, or the illusion of power, often makes people do things they ordinarily wouldn't do.

I also agree with the second part of your statement, but I personally found that I become so strung out and exhausted because I WILL try to figure out ways that I personally can fix all of the injustices in the world and I end up crippling myself with worry and anxiety about "all the world's problems". My pdoc is working on convincing me to take care of only what I am capable of and count on the fact that someone else is there to help with the other things. Otherwise, I overwhelm myself.

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

I understand what you are saying. And I'm glad you didn't take my statements wrong. I was sort of nervous to read your response. I sincerely appreciate how nice it is to discuss something intelligently with someone!

Thank you for this sentiment. I have been accussed of looking for an argument on this site when I was only looking for discussion. This meant a lot to me.

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

And I agree with your conclusions that everyone seems so upset and disgusted (rightly so) and say they would never do that, but really, we just don't know what we would do until we are personally in the situation. Power, or the illusion of power, often makes people do things they ordinarily wouldn't do.

The Stanford Prison Experiment comes to mind...

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

I also agree with the second part of your statement, but I personally found that I become so strung out and exhausted because I WILL try to figure out ways that I personally can fix all of the injustices in the world and I end up crippling myself with worry and anxiety about "all the world's problems". My pdoc is working on convincing me to take care of only what I am capable of and count on the fact that someone else is there to help with the other things. Otherwise, I overwhelm myself.

Yeah, I get that. Unfortunately, this tends to hit close to home for me. My wife is in prison for committing a crime that 'no one else' would ever do. As an advocate within the prison system I see so much ignorance and so many examples of abuse of power that directly affect my family that it sometimes feels as if all the injustices of the world are at my doorstep. I know that they are not, but it does feel that way sometimes and I too battle feelings of being overwhelmed. It is difficult to trust that others are there to help when it is your family.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

we just don't know what we would do until we are personally in the situation

That's taken me 40+ years to learn in my life; I no longer say I would or would not do/say/think/feel a certain way if I have no experience in that area.

What a wonderful discussion. Thank you.

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

What a wonderful discussion. Thank you.

I'm sure it would be better with you in it Byz.