[lenjan]

This article recently crossed the Associated Press wire. I'm curious to know how people respond to it. Personally, I was kinda peeved. -- candy
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Mom Sues Wal-Mart Over Daughter's Suicide

December 21, 2004 1:51 PM EST

DALLAS - Near the end of her short life, Shayla Stewart, a diagnosed manic-depressive and schizophrenic, assaulted police officers and was arrested for attacking a fellow customer at a Denton Wal-Mart where she had a prescription for anti-psychotic medication.

Given all those signs, her parents say, another Wal-Mart just seven miles away should have never sold her the shotgun she used to kill herself at age 24 in 2003.

Her mother, Lavern Bracy, is suing the world's biggest store chain for $25 million, saying clerks should have known about her daughter's illness or done more to find out.

The case, filed earlier this month, has reignited a debate over the confidentiality of mental health records and the effectiveness of background checks on would-be buyers of guns.

"We know that if they had so much as said, `Why do you want this?' we would not be having this conversation because Shayla would have had a meltdown," said her stepfather, Garrett Bracy.

The Bracys said Wal-Mart's gun department could have checked Wal-Mart's own security files or the pharmacy department's prescription records before selling her the weapon.

Wal-Mart spokeswoman Christi Gallagher declined to comment on the lawsuit.

But pharmacy prescription records are confidential under a 1996 federal law, so stores cannot use them when deciding whether to sell a gun.

Also, Wal-Mart did a background check on Stewart, as required under federal law, but through no fault of its own, her name did not show up in the FBI database. The reason: The database contains no mental health records from Texas and 37 other states.

Texas does not submit mental health records because state law deems them confidential, said Paul Mascot, an attorney with the Texas Department of State Health Services. Other states have not computerized their record-keeping systems or do not store them in a central location for use by the FBI.

Federal law prohibits stores from selling guns to people who, like Stewart, have a history of serious mental illness.

Would-be buyers must fill out a form that asks about mental health. Stewart, who had been involuntarily committed to an institution and declared dangerously mentally ill by a judge, lied on that form, according to her mother's attorney's office. Wal-Mart ran a background check anyway, as required by federal law.

Michael Faenza, president and chief executive of the National Mental Health Association, applauds Texas' refusal to share information with the FBI database. He said it would not be fair to violate patients' privacy when there is no data to support claims that mentally ill people are more violent than others.

"The tragedies that families face when people are killed is terrible. And frankly I wish handguns were not so available in this country," he said. "But it's not right, in our minds, to make social policy based on just a few cases."

Garrett Bracy couldn't disagree more.

He and his wife watched his stepdaughter's six-year decline from straight-A high school student to violent and unpredictable stranger. She was hospitalized five times, twice under court orders. Her longest hospitalization, lasting a month, came in 2002 after she refused to leave her room or take her medication.

The suggestion that Wal-Mart should have checked prescription records infuriates Erich Pratt, a spokesman for the Virginia-based group Gun Owners of America.

"Does that mean mental illness prevents everyone on Prozac from owning a gun? Or women with PMS?" he said.

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., who ran for Congress after her husband was killed and son wounded in 1993 by a gunman on a Long Island Rail Road train, wants to strengthen the federal background check system by encouraging states to share mental health records. She has introduced legislation that would give states grants to automate and turn over the information.

She drafted the bill after a priest and a parishioner were shot to death by a schizophrenic man in a New York church in 2002. He, too, should not have been allowed to buy a gun.

"When you see these deaths that could have been prevented it's a shame," McCarthy said.

As the Bracys prepare for another Christmas without their daughter, they are urging lawmakers to support McCarthy's bill and dealers to conduct their own background checks.

"Lavern went to the store the other day to buy over-the-counter headache sinus medication and they limited the amount of sinus medication she could buy at one time," her husband said, his voice trembling with emotion. "But Shayla can walk into a store and buy a gun and they could care less. That's got to change."

---

[wisewoman]

I am apalled also. Never should our medical histories be given to anyone not involved in our care, and not without our permission. I am so sorry that this girl died but it has to do with the darned guns being available to begin with. My medical information is between me and my doc and IF it was common information I would have to just go collect disability because of descrimination against people who are diagnosed with a mental illness I would be unable to do my job affectively. These parents are hurting and angry and I want to reach out and give them support but they really need to think about the consequences of making our medical information available to everyone, like Walmart clerks?

[JustBen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I am so sorry that this girl died but it has to do with the darned guns being available to begin with...but they really need to think about the consequences of making our medical information available to everyone, like Walmart clerks?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Are banning guns and sharing medical info with Walmart clerks really the only two options available here? How about a federal background-check system that screens for a variety of disqualifiers but only provides a yes/no response to clerks and gunsellers. This way, the clerk knows not to sell the gun, but they don't need to know the reason why. Maybe it's a background thing, maybe it's an administrative holdup...the clerk doesn't need to know, he/she just needs to know YES or NO. Thoughts?

[Wants2Fly]

I am so sorry for these parents' pain. I agree with Wisewoman: I do not want my medical records open.

Moreover, if the parents were unable to prevent their daughter's death, when they were intimately concerned with the meltdown, how they can make strangers responsible for monitoring her medical condition?

About 10 years ago, relatives of suicide victims protested on the steps of the Georgia State Capital for the state to "do something" to prevent these deaths. My question then was the same as in this case: How can the state prevent what loving friends and relatives cannot?

Thanks for bringing this up! I just read the same article.

Usually when people are protesting on the Capitol steps for suicide prevention, it has to do with funding something pertaining to suicide prevention. In NY, we recently created a statewide suicide prevention plan. The one thing I wanted to see from this plan is funding for TV and radio advertising. If we get the topic of suicide into peoples' livingrooms, maybe we can begin to make it a topic which people can discuss more comfortably.

Sorta like Seinfeld did for "master of my domain". It's not a comfy topic, but if we admit thats lots of us think about it, then maybe we can talk about it more freely.

If we can talk about it more freely, some of us will certainly be better able to ask for help.

Emmy

[mj14]

This story hits really close to home for me. I'm not sure if anyone here remembers the story of Sylvia Seagrist...it was more than 20 years ago now. She had some trouble filling a prescription for medication, so she went to a local K-Mart, bought a gun, and went back to the mall where the pharmacy was and proceeded to open fire. Six people were shot and two died. I had worked at that pharmacy when I was in school, and knew the people she shot at there (fortunately, none of them was hit). One of the people who died was the obstetrician who delivered me.

Now, that case was before there were any background checks at all, but she would not have shown up with a criminal record. She had been hospitalized several times. Her mother had been desperately trying to have her involuntarily committed, because she knew that her daughter was going to become violent, but she had no luck. Two people had to die before Sylvia could be hospitalized the way she should have been.

The laws are different now, due in some part to that case, and perhaps there's a better chance that Sylvia would have been hospitalized before it escalated to the point of violence. And this story isn't quite the same case...it sounds like in this case the parents may be clutching at straws to relieve themselves of the guilt of their daughter's death.

I certainly don't want all mental health records to become publicly available. But I do wonder what can be done to protect people who are clearly a danger to themselves or others from purchasing a weapon.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, with no real answer given. I really don't know what the answer is, but whenever I see a story like this, it brings back some very sad memories.

[Windy001]

I don't want anyone having access to my medical records. I'm Canadian, so I don't know US policy, but if the gov't had access to medical records wouldn't it be possible for employers and/or insurance companies to gain access to this information? That would NOT be a good thing for anyone with a history of any mental illness.

[(JD)]

There are plenty of laws on the books to protect us as fully as possible, I believe, in general, in the USA. The problem is the laws aren't being upheld. There are those states that haven't tightened up the ownership rules. But that's where democracy works. We have to be prepared to deal with consequences.

[SeptemberMorn]

I'm with you! If the parents and doctors couldn't control this girl's behavior, how can they expect that a clerk could stop her? Wanting Wall-Mart to check their pharmacy records is really reaching from straws! These parents are just trying to lay their responsibility on the best bet!

As for having a list of people that cannot buy a gun, maybe that would be workable in some kind of national register. When I was put in a psychiatric facility 2 1/2 years ago because they THOUGHT I was suicidal, I was made to sign a form saying that it was illegal for me to buy, have or handle a firearm. I signed it. Big deal! My personal opinion is that People Kill People, not guns! That girl would have found some other way of killing herself if she hadn't been allowed to buy that gun. Let's face it!

[misty]

No I don't want records freely given out. Legally is not the only way to get guns plus there are other ways she could have committed suicide.

[Azalysa]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
My personal opinion is that People Kill People, not guns! That girl would have found some other way of killing herself if she hadn't been allowed to buy that gun. Let's face it!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Someone who is truly suicidal, or homicidal for that matter will find another method. So (1) I CERTAINLY don't want my medical records open except without my express permission and (2) sometimes the assumption is that everyone who has some type of mental illness is therefore ipso facto a danger to themselves or others. NOT TRUE!!!

Years ago when Prozac first came out, I began hearing on the news that someone committed suicide "because they were on Prozac." Then recently, here in FL (many probably saw this on the news) a man ran off a plane in Miami while it was still being loaded shouting "I have a bomb." Two undercover air marshalls told him twice to drop to the ground. He did not and reached around to his backpack. The marshals (having to make a split-second decision and based on the man's comment thought he could be reaching for a detonator) shot him, which was tragic, but it was protocol and if this poor man DID have a bomb, MANY people's lives were in danger.

The reason I mention this? Apparently his wife, traveling with him (who works in some type of social service or mental health field) ran after him shouting "That's my husband; he's bipolar and doesn't have his meds!"

So what has the media picked up on? "Bipolar man runs out of plane shouting he has a bomb." So what does someone uneducated on mental illness think of when I might share that I have been dx bipolar? I've even heard one of the people being interviewed after this incident quoted as saying that mentally ill people shouldn't fly alone. (Errrr, he wasn't alone, his wife was with him.)

On a side note, I play a computer fantasy game and several years ago a man in his 20's became morose, holed himself up in his room and ended up committing suicide. His parents sued the game manufacturer!

This is a very hot topic, especially when there is loss of life, but good grief, those of us trying to survive normally with our illnesses don't need to have still more restrictions put on our lives.

[LostandLonleySoul]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
"The tragedies that families face when people are killed is terrible. And frankly I wish handguns were not so available in this country," he said. "But it's not right, in our minds, to make social policy based on just a few cases."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree on that comment. I think that just because some people are severly unstable and others are very mild. I know that just about anyone can lie on a form. I think that wal mart should sue the girls mother for her daughter lying on that form. I feel that wal mart shouldn't be held responsible for this. What the girl did was her fault, no one "made" her lie.

[January]

My family has always owned and used guns. They have always been part of my life. If she was denied a gun, she could have killed herself in unumberable ways. If you want to die badly enough, you'll find a way. I am always amazed when people blame the "gun" and not the person who pulled the trigger.

Jan

[Azalysa]

[SeptemberMorn]

I know this is ...BUT!!

Some of us have been really worried about Candybear because she has been sick and hasn't posted in what seems to me, in FOREVER.

Doc John also posted yesterday that Candybear has been in the hospital for at least the last couple of weeks and she is very ill. When I saw this thread but couldn't find any response from her anywhere else on the board, it CONFUSED ME... until I checked the date of the original post.

I really do wish that when people drag up an old thread from the archives, they would give fair warning! Not all of us are in the frame of mind to check DATES especially when we're worried about someone! The SUBJECT of the post is also MOST DISCONCERTING especially at this time of year!!

I must say... Speaking for myself, I'm gonna have to "draw back and punt"... In other words, I'm going to have to take some time to get my thoughts and emotions back under control and on the right track!