[TheDragon]

http://theicarusproject.net/advocacy...breyellenshomo

There are some of us who choose to not take meds, and will even go as far as to ignore popular medical advice. Although my views on it differs slightly, I believe in what the writer is fundamentally trying to get across.

[Perna]

No one has to take meds/be compliant unless they want other people's help (including money/support if they cannot support themselves) or they cause a problem (the gang gunshot victim gets treated in the ER whether he or the person who shot him wants that or not). No one's "spirit" is better than another person's and if one's actions cause another person problems and they are unable or unwilling to stop, they will be stopped by society's (majority) rules. The group will always have more power than the individual; here in the US the individual has more freedom than elsewhere in the world.

[TheDragon]

Uggghhh did you read the article? Or did you just completely miss the point?

[Perna]

Yes, I read the article and I totally agree with one's right to be non-compliant and understand the meds suck. But, non-compliant is not just about meds and the individual, it has to be about society too. No one, even those who are not mental patients, gets to have life wholly on their own terms all the time. Society is not, nor can it ever be, completely person/individual-oriented.

Nash has suggested hypotheses on mental illness. He has compared not thinking in an acceptable manner, or being "insane" and not fitting into a usual social function, to being "on strike" from an economic point of view. He has advanced evolutionary psychology views about the value of human diversity and the potential benefits of apparently nonstandard behaviors or roles.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.

Nash earned money and prestige early in his career (and later as a result of his earlier work; he didn't do anything "new" after his illness/1970) and could support himself in his mental illness (or his wife could) and find a place he fit. Unfortunately, not everyone going "on strike" can make it work for themselves. Nash got better over time and, presumably, one can (I know I did but I had to get a job and support myself, etc. while time passed) but, in the meantime. . .

I don't see it as being about illness or not but about the "facts" of life. In this place, at this time, one has to have food, shelter, and clothing to survive. If you want to get to a place where time passes and things get better, you first have to make sure of the food, shelter, and clothing. In the end, everyone only has themselves and has to work it out so they get the support or resources to keep themselves alive. The comfort of non-drudgery, deadening affects of meds so one can function in society (working at a low paying job so you can eat does nothing for one's spirit either; people on psychiatric meds are not the only ones with deadening difficulties) has to come after, is not automatic.

[venusss]

First, I gotta say I love the Icarus Project. They seem so refreshingly human in their approach to one's emotional quirks.

For me it's not even the issue of being or not being on psychmeds... but rather the problem of informed choice. Which the article captures well.

Have you ever questioned the logic of the phrase "She wouldn't be refusing medication if she wasn't ill"?

(...)


If I refuse, it's the side effects. They can treat them with more medication. If it isn't that I lack insight. I don't know I'm sick.


Some of us are not denying we have a problem. We just don't see how chemistry will help much. Or some cannot see the side effects being a reasonable trade off here. And it seems to be not well respect. I have been told here and elsewhere how I should not talk about being well off and not on meds, because it might prevent people from getting treatment. So we don't have a voice, like others because we chose a different route? It is frustrating to see stigma within the MH community.

Lack of insight? Yeah, the author is right. It comes to one's choice. But don't we deserve support and guidance in that too? Maybe a safety net?


and Perna... what does society do with it if I take meds or not? Dangerous I am not. And then again, being gay was a disorder listed in precious DSM not so long ago (and some states in the US still have laws prohibiting sex in other position than misionary). Not to rattle just on the US, my country locked up people in psychwards or sent them to mine Uranium for disagree with MarxLeninEngels doctrine. And you could be in major trouble for being long haired guy. Or listening to rock music. Or not greeting your neighbor who was member of the Party politelly enough. So I don't really think society as whole should have much to say here.

[TheDragon]

I am someone who firmly believes that the society comes before the individual, but I also understand the importance of the individual. You seem to be suggesting that in order for a functional society to work, those who are mentally ill need meds in order to contribute. I disagree with this idea, and believe that it is this generalized idea of how people with MI are treated that has lead to so many people having no lives. When it comes to one's own well being, they are well within their right to go against the majority. One has to fight for their own means, politically or psychologically.

Furthermore, you seem to imply that those with MI generally cause problems for the greater society, and therefore has to be kept under the constraints that are in place. Can you really say it is not possible for someone to not only not take suggested medications and treatment, but also be a successful member of society?

And no, I don't want to hear how some people can do it while others cannot. Everyone's gotta find a way that works for them, and this may include medications or treatment, but at the end of the day everyone is capable one way or another of doing something, and it doesn't have to mean a 9-5 job. With or without meds. With or without what is considered the "right" treatment by doctors today.

[Trippin2.0]

It's frustrating that being unmedicated your voice is dismissed, bcoz a) You're obviously on a self-destructive path b) you don't know real suffering or c) you're luring people onto the wrong path.

I like the fact that the writer said she has a will, it's how I feel. I have a will, I matter. Personally my experience with meds taught me that meds do N0T improve your symptoms, just dull your natural response to them. I figured I could learn better responses instead of being chemically castrated, numb and riddled with side-effects. I'm not against meds, and if my symptoms present in a way that is disabling or dangerous to others, hell yeah I'd give them another shot. For now I'm fine just the way I am.
Great article, thanks for posting

Very interesting article, thanks for posting.

I completely agree that the individual should be able to choose what their treatment will be. I would one day love to not take any medications (besides one to stabilize epilepsy), but don't feel I'm at that point yet. I will be discussing it though with my pdoc at our next appointment, in a couple of weeks. I really do admire those who choose not to take medication. Sure, there may be ups and downs, but that just happens to be the case for everyone (meds or no meds) We are human, after all.

[Open Eyes]

When it comes to making a decision about taking psychmeds, it sure is not an easy choice. And they do effect everyone differently and there is a lot of controversy about them. One article can sing praises about them and yet another article can discuss how much they really don't work and the data that the pharmacutical companies put out is not altogether the real facts. And then I watched a discussion on 60minutes about how they are finding out that the placebo effect is every bit as helpful as taking the medication. So somehow the mere thought that one may be taking the magic pill works wonders and they feel better (but the pill has nothing but sugar in it), well I am not sure how that works, but the studies show it does.

Heck, we even went through quite a spell there where everything was treated with drugs and therapy was not as important. Now we are running full throttle with talk therapy again, and it has proven to be extremely helpful and necessary. And for talk therapy to work one has to sit across from someone who really knows about their disorder, otherwise it can not only be useless, but it can even cause harm.

Hmmm, John Nash, an interesting subject. Yes he got very ill and delusional and didn't even know he was seeing people that didn't even exist. It took time for him to recognize and believe that. It wasn't easy for him, and yes he did try medication but the side effects took away too much of him that WAS him. So, he chose to try going it without the medication and learn about his mind and what it did that was wrong and how to deal with it. Is he all better?, no, he has learned about what he has and he works through it and yes that took time, a lot of time.

Chemical Imbalance is a term often used. Well, yes our bodies are running on all kinds of chemicals that all connect to the brain and our mental health. Our environments from the so very small, possibly and probably even before we are born effect our chemical balance that in turn effects our brains. As we are learning this we are EXPERIMENTING with chemicals in hopes to make up for what we feel is a chemical imbalance that is effecting our brains.

But I have yet to really KNOW for SURE if the chemicals we are using actually improve the imbalance and truely do correct and improve brain function. But, the one thing I DO know is there sure is a TON OF MONEY being made in DRUG TREATMENT for MI. And I also KNOW that many of the psychiatrists are benefited GREATLY by recommending certain NEW DRUGS that come to the market. And I also hear in EVERY COMMERCIAL FOR EVERY DRUG IN THE COMMERCIALS about treating mental illness that the side effects are pretty dam scary. Now, if a drug is given to help correct a chemical imbalance that effects that brain, and it does work, WHY are there so many dangerous side effects? If something makes us ill doesn't that mean our chemicals that run our bodies have been effected and because of that we feel ill?
If I take a pill and it makes me very tired, but the pill is suppose to correct my imbalance, why am I tired?

Honestly?, there is still so much we do not know about the human brain, and when we do add chemicals we are HOPING it will help but the truth is WE CANNOT SAY IT DOES "FOR SURE". And often the wordage used when talking about mental illness and chemical imbalance is "IT IS THOUGHT THAT" this or that is the reason.

As I read about my own disorder "it is thought" that SSRI's can help improve on the parts of my brain that have been greatly affected/damaged by trama and the ongoing stress from that trama. Some people that have tried SSRI's say it helps, and others say it hasn't. Right now I am not taking anything, I am in therapy and though I have been improving I still struggle and can even have some very difficult days. Sometimes I think about trying something and then when I read about it, I often see a list of side effects that are very troubling. ??????????? And then I remember the ones I did try and could not get pass the side effects of nausea or zombie.

I can't blame anyone for being non-complient. And I cannot comfortably tell someone to choose drug treatment. I keep reading about it and for every pro, I also read cons. It is not clear to me what the real facts are.

Open Eyes

[eskielover]

I personally hate meds......I hated the side effects that pushed me into anorexia (good old prozac), or the parkinson's side effect where I couldn't even feed myself or walk myself into the bathroom, or even lay comfortably in bed (the combination or thorzine Pdoc thought it would help with the stress of going through surgery at the time along with compozine from the nausea caused by my constant migraines).....or course, I have side effects to even Benedryl & antibiotics & when I was in the hospital with asthma, one of the meds they gave me caused me to completely loose my voice. One med that one of my pdocs gave me in the hospital caused my joints to not work....I couldn't even sit up in bed or walk after that one & not sure what it was....but they had to give me a shot to counteract that side effect.

I am definitely not pro-meds.....HOWEVER, when I was followed for 40 miles by a guy on the California freeways who after the police came to deal with him after he was taken down by mace in the street because he wouldn't leave the guard station we drove to, said that he knew me & then claimed that the he was the cause of the Viet Nam war. He had just been released from the mental hospital associated with the jail the day before. How do we know which person with mental illness will be a problem to society? Do we wait & find out? I believe in working with those who feel that taking meds is not what they want to do as long as they haven't already proven themselves to be a problem to society or they feel the need to take a weapon with them out into society to protect them from their perceived enemy.

If a person's mental illness has no dangerous tendencies, then the choice of meds or not seems appropriate.....otherwise.....I think there are some that prove the need for meds....it's either that or keep them locked up & away from society. It doesn't seem fair to keep those who are dangerous locked up when meds could make a huge difference in their life.....but then in reality......that also should be their choice not ours. There are always consequences for our actions & choices.....that's just a fact of life.

Lots of sides to this issue.

[snowgoose]

Thanks for the article. I feel discriminated against because of my resistance to meds. I was cut off access to other psych services until I got on the meds. I relented when I realized I was not going to qualify for disability without the doctor reporting 'compliance with treatment'. I started taking the scripts but I didn't pop the pills. I just needed to 'appear compliant'. The doctors weren't interested in the 'effective non-drug' approaches I was taking to learn how to cope rather than mask or lessen the affects of symptoms.

I walk it alone because it is easier than debating treatment options with everyone who seems to suddenly be an export. My views don't seem to hold water with anyone so I just don't bother to express them anymore.

We all need to be given treatment choices even if the choice is to manage an illness without p-meds. Meds should not be a prerequisite to other psych treatment. No meds does not mean I don't want to live better. It doesn't mean I don't work at getting healthier. It doesn't mean I want to be left on my own to find my way towards recovery. It just means I want to work with other approaches than meds. Why is that so hard for the pros to understand?

I don't make much fuss about it anymore. I just let people say what they want to say and nod in agreement and change the subject. Meanwhile I keep on moving forward and when I fall down I always get up.

I feel limited in what I can share or risk being cut off from asking for support even here on PC. The pro-med voices and lectures are too rampent when I have tried. The no-med folks like me are pushed into silence to avoid the med talk.

Thank you for opening up a discussion that allows for alternative thoughts.

I have become a great performer to protect my rights to choose. I paint the pictures people want to see. It seems to keep them all happy and off the lecture podium. Mostly I just avoid people who know me very well so I can avoid listening to them offer unsupportive support no matter which side of this fence they are sitting.

[snowgoose]

Thanks Open Eyes. You said it all perfectly.

[Open Eyes]

Thanks snowgoose it can be hard to discuss medication, most of the members here struggle with something and some take medication that has helped them and some choose not to take medication, and some really truely need their medication. I can only really speak for myself and if another member is on a medication and doing well, I don't dislike them for that, I am not prejudice and if medication helps them I am happy for them.

I can't blame others for not wanting to take medication either and try to do meditation or utilize other methods to self sooth or work through what may be their depressive stages of their MI. And I certainly would not want someone who is really struggling to give up either. It is a highly individual struggle and the biggest goal is to reach out for help and therapy, everyone deserves to make efforts to improve their lives.

Ofcourse if someone is so MI that they pose a real danger to themselves or others and the only thing that helps them is medication, then I feel they should be monitored and stay on medication.

Thanks for the article TheDragon.
Open Eyes

I agree with Perna re a person's responsibility to the society at large. And I think it is also important to think beyond those extreme examples to the less tangible but more numerous examples which are no less real and no less damaging to everyone involved.

When we are "ill" the focus tends to be on ourself and depending on the severity of the "illness" a certain amount of tunnel vision results. So much so that, for instance, we may be incapable of perceiving clearly the effects of our actions upon others; our illness blinds us in many situations. I'm speaking of fairly mundane details such as not returning or answering a phone call because one is depressed. If we pause to think for a moment about the person on the other end of the line who A) is familiar with your issues and B) knows fully well that when you don't feel well, you don't talk and C) worries about you when this is the case, then it's clear that any person in their "right" mind would try and remedy the situation. Do those of us who suffer from some mental issue think about this, attempt to do anything about this? If we don't or won't, then it is probably difficult to imagine then the cumulative effect of your actions on the other people, your loved ones. Over time, I would wager that the stress and worry caused by you would make their lives somehow less productive, less pleasurable.

So this is just one more angle to contemplate, for the medicated and unmedicated alike. When we retreat into ourselves and get lost in the maze of our own making, it is reasonable to assume that we have lost some touch with reality. Meds can make a difference in this respect, as can supplements, as can cognitive work, as can diet and exercise. True, no one size fits all. But all of us, whichever camp we fall into, should remember that whatever our actions, none of them occur in a vacuum; rather, our actions continually reverberate through other peoples' lives. So, it is SELFISH to think that simply by taking some prescribed medication you have dealt with the problem. How has your behavior changed in day-to-day situations such that others are brought some measure of relief (less concern for you) by your actions? However you are tackling your illness, if it results in more awareness of ones actions (and their effects), then your efforts may be considered successful. If you are convinced that you are "fine", but without a single thought about what your loved ones are going through, then you are only halfway there with your recovery.

[snowgoose]

You make a strong point gulas. Makes me wonder why I stick around to inflict such selfish behaviour on loved ones. A long time friend just the other day told me to f-off because she was sick and tired of me not answering the phone or returning her calls.

This is an issue without a one size fits all solution. People can be more or less of a danger to themselves and/or others. We often don’t know until it is too late. There is a kind of sliding scale at play. At one end you have MI’s with mild to no psychosis. On the other you have MI with major psychotic breaks leading to horrific violence. The risks escalate as you move up the scale.

It would be impossible to find a one size fits all policy that protects both our individual and collective rights in every situation. It can't be done. That poses a huge challenge for a collective free society. Where is that elusive line between safe and dangerous? How do we respect human rights while protecting citizen rights within the elusive realities of MI?

It is always easy to say after the fact that a person who suffers a major psychotic break was not 'taking their meds'. The message to the public then translates to ..... if you know someone with mental illness who is not taking meds than YOU are in danger. Encourage them to stay with their meds and watch your back. Stay safe.

We know the issue is much deeper than a question of compliance or non-compliance with med treatment. From a societal perspective meds are the most cost effective. Or at least that is what they are told. Personal support is the most effective treatment but it is also the most expensive.

As has been suggested already, people with MI often isolate from others by choice or abandoned by circumstance. Many of us have little to no access to on-going therapeutic support. We get the dx, go to the pharmacy, take the meds and report back when the meds run out. We are put on waitlists for talk therapy but you never make it to the top of the list. That is reality for a lot of people with MI. We walk through the illness without a support system.

I would venture to guess that the lack of a quality and consistent support system is a better predictor of dangerous behaviour than straight up med-compliance. I think of some of those extreme horrific cases involving psychosis. It seems consistently that the broken sole has no one in their life to support them either personally or professionally. No one is there. No one has ever been there. No one is going to be there when things start to spiral. Any one that may have been in their lives had long since thrown in the towel or were oblivious to any problems. Society has no safety net without someone being there for the MI person in crisis.

We can force people to comply for a short time by authority or we can encourage people by loving them and being there for them; giving them hope; reinforcing their value as a human being. We need more people loving people through MI. We need to see medication as one piece not the whole. We need loving relationships if any sort of treatment option is going to be effective. We can’t abandon people to medications that could in themselves trigger psychosis. We must stand with people in need. Give of ourselves to people in need. Not enough of that happens amid the fast paced lives commanding the world today.

[Open Eyes]

Honestly? If more parents complied with the needed knowledge in how to raise a healthy well adjusted child many of these children would not have to comply with what is thought to be the way to address their DEPRESSION, ANXIETY ISSUES, PTSD THAT STEMS FROM YOUTH, BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDERS, ANGER AND FRUSTRATION TURNED INWARD AND NOT BEING ABLE TO DEAL AND ADJUST TO THE EVERYDAY STRESS SO MANY FACE DAY AFTER DAY. These are only a few of the mental illnesses/disorders that are constantly addressed with medication as an answer.

The truth is that though our brains may have some reptilian parts we are much more than just reptiles.
Reptiles that lay eggs somewhere that presents an environment safe enough for those eggs to develope and hatch. A reptile that is born to already know to run for the water or where ever to hopefully survive.
We are a lot more complicated than that. We are full of chemicals that respond to our environment and we need the right kind of nurturing to grow and become independant healthy adult human beings. We are designed to socialize and nurture one another to thrive and survive.

Snowgoose, I hear what your saying and yes, it is important that many people who suffer from MI get the treatment and support they do deserve from other human beings. Unfortunately too many human beings do not know how to support themselves let alone anyone else. And often there are therapists that are more clinical and don't really know how to guide someone with mental illness to understand their illness and where they never got the skills (not their fault) to deal with their low self esteem, anxiety and problem solving. Sometimes it is the blind leading the blind out there in the treatment field.

Non compliant? Oh boy, wow, that is really hard to back up when we really don't know for sure whether many of these medications being forced at people really DO WORK. Oh, yes, we can just sedate the world into zombies so everyone complies. We cannot truely determine the answer until we really know more about the human brain.

I myself ended up an a psychward, I was completely exhausted and in shock (I didn't understand it at the time) I exhibited every red flag that could have been addressed with rest and quiet counceling. Instead I was asked to take all kinds of medications, and some of them made me ill, very ill from the side effects.
That is the path taken, medicate, medicate, medicate and if the patient will not go along with that, they are non-compliant.

As I said in another post, are some people so mentally ill that they absolutely need medication so they do not harm others, yes. But there is such a constant message to address just about all mental illness with medication now that the thought of searching for an alternative can be and often is considered non-compliant, that worries me.

Open Eyes

[unaluna]

geez it was those so-called loved ones that messed me up to begin with. I don't want them calling me and bothering me. I finally got them to stop - kind of. per doctors orders. no love is better than bad love.

[venusss]

Okay, I am not sure if I am right in stepping in, but let me.

*puts up flags, re-aranges her room in UN style, dresses in preppy clothes and speaks from the further-up-from-the-center-spot meekly*

Furthermore, you seem to imply that those with MI generally cause problems for the greater society, and therefore has to be kept under the constraints that are in place. Can you really say it is not possible for someone to not only not take suggested medications and treatment, but also be a successful member of society?


It really bothers me when we self-stigmatize within our community (which we did not even chose to be members off). It reminds me of all the Tyra shows in black people who they diss others because they wear hair naturally or choose to wear weaves, because they are too ghetto or too preppy and insult each other that the other one is either not African American enough or they give the group bad name.

There are many people who are on the meds and still not contributive to society. I won't go as far as "meds contribute to violence", but such stories are out there. So it is not as simple as good crazies take their pills, bad crazies wreck havoc.

In the end it's up to the person. As much as "lack of insight" is spouted by many advocacy groups, I think it is rare the person would not know what is up with them. And contrary to what some might think, everybody suffers from cognitive disortions. So is your mind really better then my mind.... especially when it comes down to my mind? I am not sure.


It's frustrating that being unmedicated your voice is dismissed, bcoz a) You're obviously on a self-destructive path b) you don't know real suffering or c) you're luring people onto the wrong path.

Oh yeah, pretty frustrating. And it's so hard to disapprove.

I am definitely not pro-meds.....HOWEVER, when I was followed for 40 miles by a guy on the California freeways who after the police came to deal with him after he was taken down by mace in the street because he wouldn't leave the guard station we drove to, said that he knew me & then claimed that the he was the cause of the Viet Nam war. He had just been released from the mental hospital associated with the jail the day before. How do we know which person with mental illness will be a problem to society? Do we wait & find out? I believe in working with those who feel that taking meds is not what they want to do as long as they haven't already proven themselves to be a problem to society or they feel the need to take a weapon with them out into society to protect them from their perceived enemy.


Sadly, we don't know if person is dangerous, until they prove themselves otherwise... but well, that is the price of freedoom. Seemigly normal people snap. But I prefer to take the risk of this to living in police state.

And do meds really prevent bad behavior in 100% cases?


If a person's mental illness has no dangerous tendencies, then the choice of meds or not seems appropriate.....otherwise.....I think there are some that prove the need for meds....it's either that or keep them locked up & away from society. It doesn't seem fair to keep those who are dangerous locked up when meds could make a huge difference in their life.....but then in reality......that also should be their choice not ours. There are always consequences for our actions & choices.....that's just a fact of life.


Well, of that is no doubt. But the author of the article was not a dangerous person most likely.


Thanks for the article. I feel discriminated against because of my resistance to meds. I was cut off access to other psych services until I got on the meds. I relented when I realized I was not going to qualify for disability without the doctor reporting 'compliance with treatment'. I started taking the scripts but I didn't pop the pills. I just needed to 'appear compliant'. The doctors weren't interested in the 'effective non-drug' approaches I was taking to learn how to cope rather than mask or lessen the affects of symptoms.


Yeah, this is pretty sad. The dehumanized "stop being problem for us and suffer quietly" aproach.

We all need to be given treatment choices even if the choice is to manage an illness without p-meds. Meds should not be a prerequisite to other psych treatment. No meds does not mean I don't want to live better. It doesn't mean I don't work at getting healthier. It doesn't mean I want to be left on my own to find my way towards recovery. It just means I want to work with other approaches than meds. Why is that so hard for the pros to understand?

Yeah, I agree with you here. It seems their approach is very narrow and many don't want it, but we are not taken seriously, because we are crazy after all.


So this is just one more angle to contemplate, for the medicated and unmedicated alike. When we retreat into ourselves and get lost in the maze of our own making, it is reasonable to assume that we have lost some touch with reality. Meds can make a difference in this respect, as can supplements, as can cognitive work, as can diet and exercise. True, no one size fits all. But all of us, whichever camp we fall into, should remember that whatever our actions, none of them occur in a vacuum; rather, our actions continually reverberate through other peoples' lives. So, it is SELFISH to think that simply by taking some prescribed medication you have dealt with the problem. How has your behavior changed in day-to-day situations such that others are brought some measure of relief (less concern for you) by your actions? However you are tackling your illness, if it results in more awareness of ones actions (and their effects), then your efforts may be considered successful. If you are convinced that you are "fine", but without a single thought about what your loved ones are going through, then you are only halfway there with your recovery.


I agree mostly, but on the other hand, sometimes the "loved ones" are the problem and shouldn't be loved in the first place. I remember Paulina Porizkova sharing her experiences with ADs, how she became a stepfort wife and did not argue with husband anymore. After she went off (because despite her feeling "better" once her friend told her she is acting as a doormat), her husband told her he prefered her on AD and he didn't even mind she did not want to sleep with him. SO if somebody cannot take what might be your personality... are their worth of being your friends or lovers?

It is a balance. We should try for sake of others and our sake... but not to everybody is worth the efford. As somebody on Icarus once said "You don't like me? Well, then YOU take the pills".

It is often superhard to balance though.

It is always easy to say after the fact that a person who suffers a major psychotic break was not 'taking their meds'. The message to the public then translates to ..... if you know someone with mental illness who is not taking meds than YOU are in danger. Encourage them to stay with their meds and watch your back. Stay safe.


But should we right here and others with issue try to avoid this self-stigmatizing? Shouldn't we accept that even with our mental quirks we are still people who deserve a choice? That is what bothers me.


We can force people to comply for a short time by authority or we can encourage people by loving them and being there for them; giving them hope; reinforcing their value as a human being. We need more people loving people through MI. We need to see medication as one piece not the whole. We need loving relationships if any sort of treatment option is going to be effective. We can’t abandon people to medications that could in themselves trigger psychosis. We must stand with people in need. Give of ourselves to people in need. Not enough of that happens amid the fast paced lives commanding the world today.


That is the thing. It takes time and we think economically. Hell, we even measure cost of MI in how many days of work the person missed never asking if they wanted to work in that particular job either and leading them to find more suitable path for them............


geez it was those so-called loved ones that messed me up to begin with. I don't want them calling me and bothering me. I finally got them to stop - kind of. per doctors orders. no love is better than bad love.



oh yeah. I remember the docu medicated child (i know it is extreme, but still) wiht "my daughter is my best friend when she is on meds". And dog on anxieties... mostly for acting like a dog. Sometimes crazies have better insight than those around them.

[snowgoose]

Thanks Venus. It took me a while to figure out which voice was yours until I heard my own in black. Thanks for the insights you share. Its a mixed up crazy world. We just happen to know that better than normals. lol.

[TheDragon]

Why do people always look down on "normals" or people with mental health? Why do people with mental health try to distinguish themselves so much? Say as you will, the MI community becomes a subculture of its own.

To Gulas - It seems like you're using a lot of personal experience. In my experience even in the midst of their woes, many will shut off at times, but many won't either. What does it matter? One has the right to be selfish. Why so focused on others? Rather than focus on getting better or pleasing people, I think people need to realize they just need to do their best to live. It's not that complicated. It's not strictly about others or being selfish.

The biggest reason I post this article at the end of the day is because I want people to understand a very valid question - Why should one have to follow popular psychology to "get better?"

The author also touches on something else I firmly believe - over focus on mental health. She at one point says she doesn't believe she is sick. How that's phrased is semantics, but one should be able to recognize they have a problem just like anyone else, mental health or not. It's not so much about meds, but the views surrounding this whole field of mental health.

Speaking from personal experience, admit you have problems, learn how to deal with it, and just move on and live your life.

[di meliora]

There are a lot of people who have sought help from professionals and others who go it alone. I have been told I have a treatment resistant illness. Even so, I accept and endorse the idea I am solely responsible for my well being.

A problem for me is how so many view their own perception of how to deal with mental illness as a universal truth. This kind of discrimination is just as unhelpful as the thought a pill will fix everyone. Frankly, I see a lot of mischaracterization of what goes on and have sited many articles that back me up.

Those who will be critical of me for saying this I find amusing. Often those who disagree with me employ criticism very similar to the criticism they view as offensive when it is targeted at them.

Such is life.

I watched mainstream tele tonight in the USA. I have zero mental disorder, compared to what I saw on TV. My disorder is poor and proud.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by brookwest

I watched mainstream tele tonight in the USA. I have zero mental disorder, compared to what I saw on TV.

But... it seems to me that in this thread there is a whole lot of concern for what other people say... can't decide who is right, and who is wrong, can't let those others be wrong, and let it go at that!

[di meliora]

Well, pachyderm, a holy man talked of those who are neither hot nor cold and expelled them from his mouth.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by di meliora

Well, pachyderm, a holy man talked of those who are neither hot nor cold and expelled them from his mouth.

I am not familiar with this saying, and do not understand its relation to what I said!