[sabby]

Not quite sure where to put this, so if it gets moved, I understand.

Please beware, this could be triggering!!!!

I’m having a very difficult time holding my tongue with my landlords at the moment. Let me give you a bit of the issue I’m having and then please feel free to comment on your thoughts. Maybe I’m looking at things the wrong way.

I found out 2 weeks ago that the man that moved in with my upstairs neighbor in January is a convicted sex offender. He is listed on the sex offender website with the address where I live. There are 2 apartments here. It does not state what apartment he lives in.

I am in the human service business and I work with developmentally disabled people. I was a home provider to an individual last year and was in the process of having another individual move in. I was even thinking of taking in a child. There is NO WAY on God’s green earth that I could ever put anyone in harms way, especially those folks who cannot protect themselves. That also goes for my grandchild. I can’t even have him here for fear of trouble.

As soon as I found out about this person being a sex offender, I informed my landlord of this. He was absolutely bull**** about this, as the woman upstairs was not forthcoming with that information to him and his wife. He told me when I first spoke to him that he would demand this man (I can think of other names to call him but I won’t) to be out of the apartment that day. He also told me he would call me back after he spoke with the neighbor and let me know how it went. I didn’t hear back until the next day. At that time the landlord said he would be out “this weekend”.

I was not real happy with having him here for another 5 days, but I shut up and dealt with it. So, the weekend comes and goes, and the jerk is STILL HERE!!!! My skin crawls to think of him up there. I hate how I feel. I don’t feel safe in my own home (of which I pay a lot of money to rent).

So, I called the landlord again yesterday. I got no call back. I called again this morning, still I received no call back. Finally I called his wife this afternoon and she told me that he will be out by THIS Friday. I was totally beside myself. I said to her, “Oh, so when the neighbor whines and snivels that he has no place to go, you give him more time???” She was kind of taken aback by that comment and said “Umm, no”.

So, now, I get the impression that my feelings mean absolutely ZILCH when it comes to this situation. He does not pay rent, he is NOT listed on the lease, he doesn’t work, he sits home all day playing video games and stomping all over the apartment to the point of my pictures rattling on the walls and my windows rattling from him stomping. Don’t the landlords have the responsibility of making sure their tenants are safe in their surroundings?? Where is the common sense???

Now, I have to wait another 5 days to see if he actually leaves or not. I’m not impressed, I’m totally ticked off and I feel like a prisoner in my own home. I feel him watching me when I go outside to my car, or when I drive in from work or whenever I’ve been out. He comes out to smoke and stands right by my back door and he can see into my kitchen. It makes my skin crawl and my stomach turn…literally.
So what do you folks think? Am I overreacting? What do I do when Friday comes and he is still here???

[January]

((((((( Sabau )))))))))

I would have the exact same reaction as yours. I'm so sorry this is happening. I don't know if you have any legal recourse. I urge you to put curtains up at your kitchen window, close the blinds, or even tape black garbage bags up so he can't stare into your apt.

I'm sure there are lots of people here who know the law about renter's rights. I hope they find this.

In the meantime if you need me, I'm a pm away.

Hugs,

Jan

[Raynaadi]

Wow.....I don't envy your situation at all. I don't think you're overreating. And it doesn't seem like the landlords care at all. He's not on any kind of lease? I would threaten to report them to slumblords if he's not gone by friday. That's your personal security, and you have the right to protect it.

PS-Where do you see the listing of sex offenders?

[sabby]

Thanks ((((Jan))))

I'm not sure what legal recourse I would have either. I will have to look into it this week so I can be prepared. The only thing I have come up with so far is that I will look for another apartment to rent. I really can't afford to move, but, if I have to, I will not pay rent for March so that I can use that money towards another place. They won't go through the process of eviction since I will be moving anyways.

I'll be calling some attorneys tomorrow I guess *sigh* Why can't life just give me a break now and again??? It seems every time I get through one problem, another one smacks me square in the face. Sorry, I guess I have a bit of self pity going on tonight...lol.

Thanks again for the support....I really appreciate it!

Hugsssssssssss
Jean

[SeptemberMorn]

If I was you, I'd want him out, too, ASAP, especially since being a sex offender isn't the only thing going against him. Do you know what kind of offender he is? Is it a child molester or what?

If he's a child molester, you probably don't have anything to worry about since you aren't a child. You should be able to call the local police or go to the Public Records office and find out why he was in jail.

Next time you see him by your back door, tell him he'll have to find another place to smoke. Better yet, call the cops and tell him you've got a Peeping Tom or a prowler!

Good luck! Keep us posted, ok?

[sabby]

Thanks ((((Raynaadi)))) for your post. I think the landlords are between a rock and a hard place since the wife of the landlord works with both myself and the woman who rents upstairs. But, as far as I'm concerned, it should have no bearing on what's right and wrong here.

You are right, I do have a right to protect myself and my home. My stomach is in knots everytime I have to go out and worry about that maroon breaking into my place. He's been known to do that too.

As far as the sex offenders listing goes, I believe that every state has a list. I found mine at my states .gov website under state police. The search engine lets you search by name, or town for listings. If I end up moving you can be sure I will be doing a search for the address I'm moving to. I want to make sure that the place I live in and the surrounding area is safe.

Hugssssssss
Jean

it is a hard one.

it reminds me of my parents...

my parents found out that there were some flats owned by this place that is involved with the deinstitutionalisaion of mentally ill people.

basically, there were people living across the road from my parents who (at some point in the past) had been involountarily committed for their mental illnesses.

my parents told other people in the neighborhood about this and tried to organise a petition etc to get them out of the neighborhood.

when should we say 'this happened in the past and we should give people the change to move on' and when should be say 'huh uh, i'm not at all prepared to leave this in the past'?

hard questions...

[sabby]

((((Sept)))) Thanks!

I do know what kind of predator he is. I also know that he is taking advantage of the woman upstairs because she is much like a child in many ways. She has some really difficult self esteem issues going on and I'm positive he has told her everything she ever wanted to hear from a man.

I'm pretty sure he has done his whole time served as he is not on parole. That scares the hell out of me that he has no one watching him and no one to answer to. He wasn't released to a half-way house, just released to the general public...*shiver*

I don't even want to have verbal contact with the guy. He's creepy looking and I don't do well with face to face confrontation. I get all tongue tied and then I get mad at myself for being that way.

Great idea about calling the cops for a peeping tom...I'll definitely do that if I have to!

Hugssssssss
Jean

[sabby]

Hi alex...I agree with you to a point. But let me tell you what I know to be true....

1. Sexual predators are almost NEVER rehabed. Once a predator, always a predator. I have studied and worked with disabled folks who have sexual issues and I know this to be true.

2. There is a huge difference between sexual predators and emotionally disturbed individuals, or developmentally disabled individuals who have sexual issues. I have worked closely with an individual who is developmentally disabled with sexual issues. I adored this guy as he was witty and funny and just a total love. But.....he did have issues that we had to work very hard with in order to keep him and the general public safe.

In this situation, there is absolutely no accountability to be taken with this person. He is free as a bird....no parole officer, no one to keep him in line or on track.

Thank you very much for your post...I really appreciate what you are saying.

Hugsssssss
Jean

(((( sabau2 ))))

You are absolutely positively NOT overreacting. My stomach sank just reading it.

We had a sexual offender move in on our street and it has caused a fair amount of upset. And even though he is monitored, it is still a bit nerve-wracking.

I know this isn't comforting, but they're everywhere and it's good to know who you have to look out for, who you can't trust.

Regardless, I'm sorry this is happenig to you and for the fear you're feeling. I hope it is resolved very soon!

> 1. Sexual predators are almost NEVER rehabed. Once a predator, always a predator. I have studied and worked with disabled folks who have sexual issues and I know this to be true.

Ah. and so you are going with the assumption that this guy was once a sexual predator and thus he will always be a sexual predator. And in support of this you offer a couple of cases of people who you know. I'm not sure how much the people you know generalise back to the whole 'sexual predator' population but I do know a little something about how people tend to conform to what we expect of them (e.g., if you refuse to leave his past in the past then he probably won't have such an easy time leaving his past in the past either).

> 2. There is a huge difference between sexual predators and emotionally disturbed individuals, or developmentally disabled individuals who have sexual issues. I have worked closely with an individual who is developmentally disabled with sexual issues.

Ah. And so once again you generalise from the few people you know to the whole population of 'emotionally disturbed individuals'.

I really do wonder how much considering oneself to be a part of the relevant population affects our judgement on these issues.

I mean we are on a mental health board - right? So we like to think that people can transcend their past with respect to their mental health issues. If we were a sexual predator recovery board I wonder if we would be saying 'we can recover from our past - I mean we aren't like those mentally ill people'.

lol.

> In this situation, there is absolutely no accountability to be taken with this person. He is free as a bird....no parole officer, no one to keep him in line or on track.

And what happens with people who are deinstitutionalised???

To leave the past in the past or to let it infect the present... Hard decisions...

(I'm not at all saying that you don't have a right to be wary, but I do indeed think that when the legal system considers that he has DONE HIS TIME I really do believe that society should give him another chance).

Why?

Because I'd be grateful if people offered it to me...

[sabby]

((((ECHOS)))) Thank you for your post!

Hugssssss
Jean

[sabby]

Alex, once again thank you for your post and your thoughts.

I must apologize for not making myself quite clear in my previous posts. Let me try to do that now.

My assumption that once a predator, always a predator comes from cold hard facts regarding the sexual predator community. Statistics have shown that even though many receive counceling while incarcerated, they WILL re-offend when back on the streets. My education has come from psychologists/psychatrists who specialize in treating sexual offenders. Not to mention the fact that I have had personal situations with such individuals, both myself and one of my children.

The only reason I included those with developmental disabilities is because I have worked with that population and have studied their issues in this debate also. I was making a distinction between those who are disabled and those who are not (the man upstairs is not). My point being that though those who are predators that are developmentally disabled are carefully monitored, as opposed to the individual upstairs.

I may be generalizing to some degree, you are right. But I choose to generalize on the side of caution and safety for the public at large.

Let me put it to you this way......take tornados.....they can go through a town and totally demolish one side of a street and leave in tact the other side of the street. If I knew one was coming, should I consider that I will be lucky enough that MY side of the street will be spared, or should I generalize that this tornado could be devestating and take all due care to keep myself safe??? What would you choose to???

I am not saying that there aren't sexual predators out there that are not trying to recover. I'm not saying that they don't deserve to live their lives as best they can. All I am saying is that I don't want one living above my home and I don't want to take the risk that he will fail where my family, friends and other individuals are concerned that come to my home.

If you are asking what happens to people being "de-institutionalized" from prison for having done time for sexual offenses, let me offer you this tidbit of information. While incarcerated, these people are to be involved with intense psychological testing, and courses they must go through and pass. They must accept what they have done, take ownership of it and move towards rehab. Many who do this are released from prison before their allotted time is up. When that happens, they are on parole and still have to attend daily/weekly rehab. And MANY of them who have succeed with this, do NOT succeed outside the prison walls. Those who do not own their issue, who do not take responsibility for their actions are left in prison to do their allotted time. When released, there is NO parole, NO rehab required, and NO ONE watching them. They have not tried to fix their problem and have not admitted they even have a problem. This is the case with the individual upstairs. So let's see now, I can A. Ignore the situation and go about my life blindly or B. I can actively seek to have him removed from this home for my safety and the safety of others. To me, the choice is crystal clear.

Thanks again for your thought provoking comments!

Hugssss
Jean

thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me :-) and thank you (in particular) for being willing to engage in a discussion about this :-)

do you know what the repeat reoffending rates are on sexual offenders? i don't. is it close enough if i go with two thirds? do you know what the relapse rates are on psychotic episodes for people with schizophrenia? roughly two thirds (in developed western nations according to 3 WHO studies).

> I choose to generalize on the side of caution and safety for the public at large.

Yes. my parents felt the same way about the people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia who were living just across the road.

The difference between tornadoes on the one hand and sexual offenders and people with mental illness on the other is that the latter are PEOPLE. a tornado won't be harmed (not even offended) if we regard it to be a destructive force, label it as such, and move the hell out of the way of its likely path. people, on the other hand, can indeed be harmed by whether we regard them to be 'chronic' or constrained by their past behaviour or not.

for example, the three WHO studies on recovery rates from schizophrenia found that people did significantly better (two thirds never relapsed) in developing nations (as opposed to developed nations such as USA, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ etc). why? hard to say... less access to medications... less access to psychiatrists... more access to social supports... less... social stigma...

> All I am saying is that I don't want one living above my home and I don't want to take the risk that he will fail where my family, friends and other individuals are concerned that come to my home.

Yes. That is how my parents felt about the people who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia living across the road from them.

People are often deinstitutionalised from mental institutions without adequate outpatient support. They often go on to stop taking their medication. They often never received therapy or life skills training in the hospital. My parents preferred them to be relocated elsewhere as well.

But where on earth is elsewhere supposed to be?

If he stays put he is somewhere where people can keep an eye on him, I guess. It would be understandable if you were to be cautious. If he moves... Where is he supposed to go? Is he supposed to keep on moving when people find out about his past? What is he supposed to do?

[sabby]

Healthy discussions are great Alex! And I will definitely reply later on today, as I am off to work now. Have a great day!

you too. time for me to zzz

[kelllie]

Sorry you are in this situation.I know it is a difficult one, dont think you are overreacting, and really do hope that the person leaves your building. I certainly wouldn't want to be in your place as I have young children. However, I always try to look at things from all angles, and I have several thoughts about your situation and i hope i don't offend anyone. I'm kinda nervous bout posting this (especially since its only my second and i dont want people to get the wrong idea about me)

I understand your fear about the person living in your building, but unless it is right near a school or playground or such place he is probably legally allowed to live there. Everyone needs to have a place to live, if not there, it will be next to someone else who probably feels the same way you do.

As for safety of people in hour household, you should evaluate EVERYONE around you as to if they should be left alone with your children/dependents/yourself. Luckily for you this was already done for you, since you know already you shouldn't trust him. People not capable of protecting themselves should be supervised at all times, regardless if someone around is convicted or not. A person doesn't have to be convicted of anything to be dangerous.

If the person does not leave, and you find it affects your life so extensively, perhaps you should consider moving. You may argue why it is you and not him who has to move, which I may agree with, but if he is legally there it may be your only choice. Also, like i said before, it will be your job to make sure he does not have access to anyone you are caring for.

As for the job, I'm guessing employers are just as excited about hiring him as you are living next to him. Not trying to make excuses, but like i said, i like to look at things from all points of view.

Hope i didn't offend anyone, it was not my intention as I would not want to be in that situation either. Good luck and hope you find relief soon.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5761/RECIDIVI.htm and

http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/respaper/treatm02.htm

...from my searching on the net Canada appears to be at the forefront on this type of research......pat