[pachyderm]

Often I think that the best thing that can be said about our present "mental health system" is -- Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Maybe there are exceptions. I'm not sure. One thing I am sure of, is that I am not sure that there are.

Note: I still have not been successful at adding a trigger icon.

[nothemama8]

Pachyderm, one thing for sure is there letting the imates run the asylum, hahaha

[MyBestKids2]

I've been very fortunate with obtaining excellent mental health care in 2 different states. So far, so good.....

[Cheri]

I, too, have been fortunate to get a good therapist through the "system," but I had to wait 9 weeks to see her the first time. The agency I go through is 30 case managers under-staffed (luckily, I don't need one), with approximately a 6-month wait. They send people in need of case management to a place called NetCare where they can get temporary help on a walk-in basis, but the wait is 4 or 5 hours and you see a different person each time. There are usually no hospital beds for mental illness available at any given time... when I needed to be hospitalized in June, I was sent to an outlying county about 45 minutes from my house (you should see the transport bill!).

The system is under-funded, under-staffed, and a at low priority for fixing. Many people in need of mental health care are shunted through the crimal justice system and end up homeless.

[pachyderm]

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mybestkids2 said:
I've been very fortunate with obtaining excellent mental health care in 2 different states. So far, so good.....

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I guess a question is: what makes the difference between "good" mental health care, and that which is not so good.

[nothemama8]

pachyderm, my hubby and I just went through the worst case, our pdoc left her practice and never informed us, we are left hanging with no pdoc, meds will last until end of October and most pdoc's have waiting list for 3 months fortunatly because I work in the system we have an emergancy system, called a pdoc that has agreed to see us Friday

[DocClyde]

pachyderm, I fixed your trigger icon, as you mentioned.

I also agree with all of you--I do feel it is understaffed, underpaid, etc. I know people surely do not get the best treatment they really need, and usually (Usually, but not always...) that is not so much the fault of the workers as it is the funding they get.

For instance, with psychologists, they dont get paid as much by insurance, unless they can "put down" your diagnosis to a DSM related illness.

That is a bit farfetched, but it is a sad truth of life anymore that the dollar takes the place of the person in any field or any treatment, of any kind.

That being said, though, I do feel there are lots of people who really do want to help in the mental health system, and they are trying...its a shame they are not the ones who get to do all the funding, etc...but you get my point.

Hope it gets better for you...

[pachyderm]

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nothemama8 said:
Pachyderm, one thing for sure is there letting the imates run the asylum, hahaha

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Hmm. I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe the situation is better now than it used to be, but from what I've seen over the years, I don't think the inmates could do much worse a job than the "professionals" have done.

[nothemama8]

just trying to add humor,
seriously I have a non-profit organization owned and operated by mentally challanged folks, we have a support group, and workshop we are a resource for our peers to show we are capable productive people

[pachyderm]

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Clyde said:
pachyderm, I fixed your trigger icon, as you mentioned.

I also agree with all of you--I do feel it is understaffed, underpaid, etc. I know people surely do not get the best treatment they really need, and usually (Usually, but not always...) that is not so much the fault of the workers as it is the funding they get.

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(How did you fix the icon?)

My objection to the "system" is not so much that financial resources are limited, and poorly distributed, but that "they" do not seem to know what causes mental illness; they do not really even know what "it" is. And they do not appear to care. Not enough, at least, to ask.

Diagnoses abound. Bipolar, for instance, or a description I like better, manic-depression. Clearly, something is cycling. Why? What inner system is out of balance and must cycle from one extreme to another? Why isn't somebody asking? Why are medications prescribed only to suppress the symptoms?

Or take "schizophrenia" -- someone has hallucinations, auditory or visual. Why do mental health professionals (by and large) seem not to wonder about the content of the hallucinations? Do they ever investigate them? Or do they give up on that enterprise, and prescribe medications to suppress the symptoms? Medications which, in fact, only partially succeed in doing that. Wonder why? Maybe there is something in there that is trying to get expressed.

So, I see a lot of mental health treatment today as aimed to cover things up rather than to reveal. Why? Because lots of people are afraid of what is hidden. What will be challenged if the hidden becomes known? Must it remain hidden to preserve someone's stability? The stability of something? Or can the truth be known and redound to the benefit of everyone?

Well, these are my concerns. Maybe they are the concerns of others. Maybe not. Maybe some on these forums (and their therapists) are indeed trying to uncover some truths.

[DocClyde]

It was just there--really dont know how to explain it, just clicked on the radio button by it...

Hey. I think your criticisms about the current state of knowledge are fair but... I do think that there are some clinicians and researchers who do care, very much, about these issues.

> "they" do not seem to know what causes mental illness; they do not really even know what "it" is.

That is right. We don't know a great deal. There are a lot of theories that have been developed, however. People are trying to work on this. Drug companies would like to know about the neurological mechanisms that result in psychosis and mania and depression because they would like to develop more effective drugs. Therapists would similarly like to know more about the mechanisms involved so they can provide more effective treatments. Theorists and scientists are also interested in increasing our state of knowledge. A lot of research funding goes to investigating the causes of mental illness.

> Why are medications prescribed only to suppress the symptoms?

Because at present... Those are the best (most effective) medications that we have got.

> Why do mental health professionals (by and large) seem not to wonder about the content of the hallucinations?

Because that seems to be irrelevant with respect to the current biological treatments. Psychoanalytically / dynamically inclined clinicians DO ask about the content of hallucinations and delusions and the like. Phenomenological approaches focus more on the phenomenology / content.

> So, I see a lot of mental health treatment today as aimed to cover things up rather than to reveal.

Yeah. One notion is that... The person is distressed by their delusions / hallucinations and so if the medication stops them having delusions / hallucinations then we have fixed them. Similarly if a person is distressed by their runny nose and eyes and sore throat we give them anti-biotics and watch them get better. Oftentimes... We don't need to know precisely what the infectious agent is UNLESS the medication doesn't provide some relief.

They are the concerns of others, too. You might find some solace with certain members of the anti-psychiatry movement who encourage us to understand mental disorder as something that is largely a response to a sick society... Or psychoanalytic / dynamic / phenomenological theorists who maintain that we should understand the content and listen more to patients reports of what is going on for them.

[biiv]

That is right. We don't know a great deal. There are a lot of theories that have been developed, however. People are trying to work on this. Drug companies would like to know about the neurological mechanisms that result in psychosis and mania and depression because they would like to develop more effective drugs. Therapists would similarly like to know more about the mechanisms involved so they can provide more effective treatments.

to me that just sounds like an excuse for capitalism to keep making money and expanding the gap between rich and poor. its a question of the government and drug companies being more interested in generating income than in actually reaching the root cause of issues. im open to statistics which disprove this but havent found any to date!

Well... There are researchers who work in a university setting (and who don't have any financial or job interest in therapy or medication) who are trying to figure out what is going on with different kinds of mental disorders.

Christopher Frith springs to mind:

http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Neur.../dp/0863773346

He has a theory of what is going on for people with schizophrenia.

Similarly, there are a great number of researchers working on figuring out what is going on with Autistic people. The researchers aren't involved in treating these people and as such they don't have an investment in any particular variety of treatment. They are just trying to model what is going on with Autism.

Similarly, there are a great number of evolutionary psychologists working on the evolution of genes and behavioural symptoms associated with depression and sociopathy and histrionic personality disorder.

Similarly there are cognitive neuropsychologists working on the nature of psychosis and delusions and the like (who don't have an investment in treatment).

There is an awful lot of work that has been done and that is being done by researchers who don't have a financial investment in treatments. There are a lot of theories. Lots of theories and lots of controversy and not much consensus. But people are really genuinely trying...

[biiv]

thats good to know. i do tend to forget about the 'private' researchers. its just because the politics of the whole mental health system make me see red. thanks for the reality check.

[Maven]

I don't like the mental health system. That doesn't mean there aren't good people within it, but I think the drug companies are out to make money, and there are many doctors and psychologists happy to join in. Additionally, the FDA doesn't require drugs to work well; they just have to work. Their requirements really add up to being able to make money and still be able to claim they're providing drugs that help people, even if that help is minimal and there are serious side effects.

Here's some articles of interest:

Psychiatrists Top List in Drug Maker Gifts
How Drug Company Money Has Corrupted Psychiatry
Hundreds of NIH Scientists Accept Drug Companies' Money

[pachyderm]

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alexandra_k said:
Hey. I think your criticisms about the current state of knowledge are fair but... I do think that there are some clinicians and researchers who do care, very much, about these issues.

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Some.

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> "they" do not seem to know what causes mental illness; they do not really even know what "it" is.

That is right. We don't know a great deal...A lot of research funding goes to investigating the causes of mental illness.

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"We" don't know a great deal? A lot of research? Yes, indeed.

I think I know quite a bit about it (at the risk of seeming, well, what? Grandiose?). Think of Harlow's monkeys...

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> Why are medications prescribed only to suppress the symptoms?

Because at present... Those are the best (most effective) medications that we have got.

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I said suppress.

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> Why do mental health professionals (by and large) seem not to wonder about the content of the hallucinations?

Because that seems to be irrelevant with respect to the current biological treatments.

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Indeed. To them. Not to me.
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> So, I see a lot of mental health treatment today as aimed to cover things up rather than to reveal.

Yeah. One notion is that... The person is distressed by their delusions / hallucinations and so if the medication stops them having delusions / hallucinations then we have fixed them. Similarly if a person is distressed by their runny nose and eyes and sore throat we give them anti-biotics and watch them get better. Oftentimes... We don't need to know precisely what the infectious agent is UNLESS the medication doesn't provide some relief.

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SOME relief? Don't you want more than that? My impression from observing a number of people on these medications (including myself) is that they are much less effective than their advocates claim.

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They are the concerns of others, too. You might find some solace with certain members of the anti-psychiatry movement who encourage us to understand mental disorder as something that is largely a response to a sick society...

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Are they not? Have you observed our society recently? Compare to... Harlow's monkeys. Or, maybe less (but significantly) stressed monkeys.

Members of the anti-psychiatry movement... do you have any idea how lonely it is out here?

[wickedwings]

i have a serious issue with the mental health system.... many do not understand deaf people with mental illnesses. as a result, they misdiagnose, mess them up with wrong medications. some are plain ignorant, and overmedicate as a result. i could go on and on about it. i had to fight to find the right people to help me, even if it means having my hubby drive 2 hours to take me there..... most of the medical system is this way with people like me, so it's no surprise. most think i'm dumb or crazy and will not take me seriously.

[recluse1]

i'll just be blunt.....the mental health system SUCKS!!!!! I agree with pachyderm, more should be put into finding the causes and not just treating the symptoms. and while i'm talking about treatment, medications should not be so damm expensive. people shouldn't have to choose between eating and getting their meds. their should be some sort of regulation on drug pricing and there should be more help for people who can't afford treatment. i think we should also be seen as human being and not statistics or a case number. But i guess the almighty dollar speaks volumes more than we do.

recluse1

[pachyderm]

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alexandra_k said:
Christopher Frith springs to mind:

http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Neur.../dp/0863773346

He has a theory of what is going on for people with schizophrenia.

Similarly, there are a great number of researchers working on figuring out what is going on with Autistic people.

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I have not read the book. Following your link to Amazon, it sounds as though it might be valuable. It says there is only one copy in stock!

I have some thoughts about autism, too. Some of their reactions seem similar to mine. MY theory is that they (the children) have been challenged in some way (there can be many ways) that overwhelms some internal system -- and no one does anything to successfully relieve their distress. I wish professionals paid more attention to the input of some of us who seem to have related problems. I think that they do not think they can make any sense out of what we say (and many think we don't make any sense). I don't understand you -- therefore you don't make sense.

People who have gone through related challenges may have learned enough to be able to make some sense of autism (for instance) where professionals who don't have such experience do not.

It takes one to know one?

[splitimage]

I'm going to be talking about my experiences with the mental health system in Canada so some of it might not be completely transferable to the US - but I've only experienced top notch care. I have a psychiatrist who actually talks and listens to me both about my meds and about the psycho/social components of my illness. I spent 8 weeks in a psychiatric hospital with very caring staff and if I hadn't I probably wouldn't be here. As for meds. They've literally saved my life I didn't know how different things could be until I went on anti-D's and a decent anti psychotic made a huge difference in my life. Once we got the dossage right, I felt like I was 20 again before all my mental health problems started.

Point taken about meds being expensive - mine run around $600 a month. But that's just as much an insurance issue as it is a pharmaceutical company issue. The pharma companies have a right to make a profit, but what pisses me off is when insurance companies won't pay or have high co pays for psych meds.

Just my 2 cents.

---splitimage

[pachyderm]

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splitimage said:
I'm going to be talking about my experiences with the mental health system in Canada so some of it might not be completely transferable to the US - but I've only experienced top notch care.

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Oh well, my impression is that Canadians are, for the most part, less sick, more stable, and more grounded than U.S.'ns.