[angel04]

I'm feeling overwhelmed and lost and confused. I need to buy a computer but there is so much information out there.
I was out all day shopping for one and I'm so ridiculously confused and there is so much to figure out. I don't know what to do.
I don't want to pay a lot but I don't want a piece of crap either. I don't know anyone near me who is well versed in the computer arts so I feel like I'm destined to screw up if I make this big decision alone.
I know I'm whining. Sorry. I just don't know what to do here. If theres anyone who knows about computer systems and whatever else goes along with them, please PM me. I need HELP!!!!!

tina

"we were meant to live for so much more, and we lost ourselves"
Switchfoot

I don't know much about computers but someone suggested to me that I buy a dell b/c they have good customer support. Not sure, but hope this helps.

[SeptemberMorn]

I have a Dell and I'm very happy with it. They do have a good support system and it comes with a tutorial. The only thing is, you have to buy their insurance to get online support.

If you go to their web site, you can see the bargains they have on for that sales period. They also have refurbished old ones. When I looked, though, they were the great big heavy duty things and cost more than a new one.

Here's a link to their hot deal of the day: the one on the far left of your screen. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/advertised_dimen4?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs>http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/advertised_dimen4?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs</A>




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[wisewoman]

I just helped an older {83} year old lady get a Dell desk top and with tax was $500.00 . It was a good deal and you can upgrade tyour getting.o more memory and dvd etc for more $. The systems in the stores like Best Buys etc are scarey. Don't know what your getting. It's very confusing. Good luck.

[wisewoman]

I just helped an older {83} year old lady get a Dell desk top and with tax was $500.00 . It was a good deal and you can upgrade to more memory and dvd etc for more $. The systems in the stores like Best Buys etc are scarey. Don't know what your getting. It's very confusing. Good luck.

[LadyDragus]

i for one have an HP, that i bought from <A target="_blank" HREF=http://bestbuy.com>http://bestbuy.com</A>
and i love it, it is the second Hp, that i hvae owned and if you go in and talk to the computer guys they are normally very helpful..

Dell is a wondful system, but very hard to upgrade cause everything is built in to the motherboard which means if you ever want to upgrade anything on it, you have to go through Dell, and you hvae to get the parts through them, you can not have a "friend" do it, or anyone else, or you void the warranty on it..

I would be willing to help you via pm if you have any quesitions regarding this ..
I help build comptures.. ok

<font color=purple>
take time to heal thyself before trying to help others, or you will never get better

[angel04]

thanks everyone. I am dealing in canadian dollars and it's all much more expensive. I'm not sure why the prices aren't equal when converted. It's disheartening.
It's the video cards and agp/pci cards etc that confuse me. Dell and other internet companies don't have refund policies if the machine doesn't end up being entirely what you want. That scares me a bit. There is a store in town here that has a full 14 day refund policy but the system is a little more expensive and a brand I have never heard of. It's upgradable which is nice and I can add on things like a dvd or floppy drive. It's annoying that most systems don't include a monitor and I have to buy one separately. I wish I had a friend who knew computers who would just volunteer to go shopping with me. Argh!
Any advice would be appreciated.
Let's see, I need it for wordprocessing for school. Windows xp I guess. I need it for downloading and uploading photos and using photoshop 7 and printing out the pix too (storage onto cd's would be nice). I need to be able to build and manage my website as well.
WHat would be a good price to look for for all of this encorporated into a system?
thanks everyone. I'm feeling pretty good these days but this computer mumbo jumbo is really getting me down.
love ya all for the help
take care
tina

"we were meant to live for so much more, and we lost ourselves"
Switchfoot

[ghost]

i agree with getting one with some kind of warranty! Most machines (except dell i guess) have one year warranties through the company in case you have problems. i suggest you get a machine with a warranty like that.

what brand is this off brand one? it might just be a smaller company that makes perfectly good machines.

as far as monitors go, i suggest getting cheaper ones on clearance unless you really need a top of the line one. i've done that with several of my friends and they've all been happy.

as far as getting ps7 and whatnot: windows XP comes standard but you usually have to buy office (for word processing and whatnot) and ps7 separate. i may be able to help you out with that, however, so we can pm about that at your convenience. most machines don't come with that stuff. gateway sometimes comes with office, but i don't generally suggest gateways because i think their "warranties" are kinda like dell's. not that great.

the one you found sounds pretty good.

i think one thing to think about is that as long as it comes with standard options and nothing too fancy (say, a dvd burner, a high-end graphics card, etc), you can't really go wrong with an "off brand" machine... a mother board is a mother board, and i fyou get a warranty and beat the hell out of it in a short period of time, you'll be able to test how good it is for you. before it runs out.

good luck (and feel free to pm me again!)
ghost

[BlackMind]

Hey Angel. Well if you live in Alberta (IE Calgary, Red Deer, or Edmonton) I could have someone help find you a good computer for what you need. I have a lot of friends who all have computers (I am the only one without) and they are very techie type guys, more so than me and I am pretty into them too. Anyway let me know if I can help.

[dexter]

Hi angel... I'm a little late here.

It's not all that complicated it's just that there's all these completely never-heard-of-before terms being thrown at you in all directions and making your head spin.

I agree that Dell is a good bet. I've purchased a number of machines from them and a few laptops too for the office (at home I build my own ). I like their customer service. However I always know exactly what I want when I purchase so I cannot speak toward how helpful (and accurate) they are when helping you pick components. I would imagine they are rather knowledgeable because they have a good rep.

I also [have] been able to upgrade machines rather easily with standard components, included adding memory, changing hard drives, and adding a CD burner to one. I was worried that some of their software might be "tweaked" for their machine and would have problems with off-the-shelf stuff, but last year I upgraded ALL the machines in the office from Win98 to WinXP with absolutely no problem... that is not an "upgrade" install but a complete erase-and-start-from-scratch install and had not one single problem with drivers for any of the components.

Now the "complicated" part: what you need.

I'm going to make this a bit general for the possible benefit of others too. The first thing to think about is "what are you going to do with the machine." A lot of people are buying a computer strictly for email, web surfing, and of course now digital cameras and photo printing are becoming popular. Maybe some word processing too.

Any basic computer will perform all these tasks well. Very well. WindowsXP Home edition would be the OS (there is also a "media" edition, not sure what it includes, but at least some stuff for digital video editing).

Memory should be a minimum of 256M. 512M preferred, probably the "sweet spot" for most users, more would be overkill. (angel be sure to read to the end!)

Hard drives are pretty large now so that is not as much an issue. They do fill up faster than you think they will but with the explosion in size the past few years I think they have far outgrown our ability to fill them easily unless you are recording sound (not mp3, those are small) or doing digital video recording.

Speed of the drive should not be of concern for most people. Applications that require a faster drive are things like video editing and recording tools, as they have to keep up with the large flow of data. The advertised "rpm" of a drive contributes to it's speed (remember that it is how fast the drive can read data and send it to the processor that is important) but other things play a role as well.

I wouldn't worry a lot about speed. If you have a choice and it doesn't break the bank I would recommend the Western Digital drives marked as "special edition". (I think they have "jb" at the end of their model number) There is an 80GB SE, 120GB SE, and up. I really think 80G would be fine but it never hurts to get more. If there is much of a price difference then don't worry about size (as long as it is at least 80G... smaller would probably be OK too but I don't know if they are offering much smaller nowadays). Also don't worry about the speed (or SE model) if there is a noticable price difference.

Video card: This depends A LOT on what you are going to be doing. For most people an average card is FINE. People who need more are people who are into gaming, especially serious gaming. Cutting edge games are really the software driving the hardware these days. Each new video card offers new software features... not consumer things but things programmers can use to make their games appear more realistic. If a game is written for a particular set of features, a card that doesn't match won't get full benefit of all the graphics. Top of the line video card designers like GeForce and Radion get $300 and up for a card that is obsolete as soon as you get it out of the box (even more literally true than when you say that about computers in general . If a machine is for gaming, I would highly recommend talking to someone knowledgeable in that area to get your best options.

For run of the mill tasks like word processing and internet, any video card will be bored and yawning before you are. Any basic card will be good for the task. You could ask, but usually the "standard" video that Dell offers should be fine, the offered "upgrades" would be more for video gamers.

PCI vs AGP shouldn't be an issue but I'll tell you so you can impress the salesman. The thing that makes our computers so flexible (and why buying one is so compicated) is because they are designed with a base system and a series of places to plug in the components you want to add. On the back of your computer you see the parallel slots... some covered and some with jacks or plugs sticking out the back. They're where your monitor plugs in, maybe also your phone line, maybe a network jack, and possibly other things. Inside the computer these plug into the base module which is called the motherboard. The motherboard has the processor itself (intel inside!) and holds the memory and all the stuff to make everything connect and work with everything else. Along the edge are a series of slots where cards plug in. These slots are standard, both in size and in electrical charactaristics, so that a variety of different types of things can be plugged into them. When the motherboard is installed the edge of any installed card lines up with the slots in the back of the case, and so provides the means to connect things to those cards.

The specs, with regard to how and what data goes through those slots and at what speed has changed over the years as new, better techolgies have come along. Some of you may remember "ISA" slots, those were the standard for quite some time. Then PCI (see, I am answering your question!) came along, offering much faster speed... data can move back and forth along the connections (it is called a "bus") faster and better and therefore helps the speed of the overall machine.

A thing to note is that as the technology grows, it really has to grow in all areas that make up a computer. The faster and faster processors we have today would mean nothing if the data "bus" were still slow and memory modules were slow. If the processor couldn't move data around very fast its extra speed would really be of no use. This is one reason why computers always seem to be "obsolete" as soon as you buy them. All the different technologies are improving and playing "catch up" with one another in a continually involving process. It is not like someone invents one new thing and them BAM the next generation of computers are born.

So for a while motherboards had both PCI and ISA slots, so people could use their old ISA cards and also make use of faster, new PCI components. Now ISA is a dinosaur. PCI is the current standard. Next week (I'm exagerating, don't paninc, but it will be soon) a new technology is set to take over called PCI-X that is faster than PCI. In the interim the bus speed of PCI has increased over the years as well so it isn't like PCI itself hasn't improved in all this time.

Normally your video card would take one of those PCI slots, except another new technology was introduces called AGP. Sounds complicated? It's not. AGP is just a slot like a PCI slot. But remember how I said the PCI slot is part of a bus that transfers data? And therefore all the cards plugged into the bus have to share the line for that data? AGP is a separate slot that doesn't share resources with the other cards. It can share data directly with the processor and also I think talk directly to the memory in your system. Once again, this is of most interest to video gamers. Since the video card is the thing that is "sweating the most" in a system when you are gaming... a lot of cutting edge technology goes not just into the cards but into the connection to the computer. There are a few different "flavors" of AGP, with different data speeds, and of importance to system builders, different voltages. You can fry a video card by putting the wrong kind of AGP video card in the wrong kind of slot. You won't have to worry about that at all since they are assembling the system for you, they'll only pick and offer components that work together.

So AGP is just a way to connect a card to a computer, like PCI (and very similar in many ways) except that AGP is ONLY for compatible AGP video cards (where as PCI takes many different kinds of plug in cards) and where everything connected to PCI has to "share the line" AGP has a single, direct line to the Kremlin (or to the Batcave... take your pick .)

I didn't realize they were even giving a choice anymore between AGP and PCI for video. I'd go for AGP just on principal unless the price difference is conciderable. PCI won't really slow you down noticably though if you are trying to go as inexpensive as possible. Unless, as I said, you are planning on gaming or maybe video.

(continued)

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--http://www.idexter.com

[dexter]

Other things they may ask you: Networking! Used to be COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY for a typical home user. Now may almost be a can't-live-without. Two major things it will be of use for. First, if you have more than one computer in your household, as many people do nowadays, a network card allows them to "communicate" with each other so the people using them can easily share files and things between them. If there is only one printer in the house, a network will let anyone print a document using that printer. The second thing is for any sort of broadband internet connection.

If your connection to the internet is through a modem, your computer will hook up to your phone jack, and dial a number just like making a call from your phone, except it connects you to internet data. If you are connecting via dial-up, GET THE FASTEST MODEM YOU CAN. No skimping. The net is growing and expecting more and more people to have faster connections. If you have broadband available and can afford it, go for it. This means DSL or Cable internet. Either of these technologies connects to your computer through a box, but instead of hooking to a phone jack, they hook into your cable or DSL line on one end, and into a standard network jack on the computer. So that's why it is advantageous to have a network capability already in your computer when you buy it. Also, with networking, all the computers in your house can now share the same broadband internet connection. (A much more compelling reason than file sharing, eh?)

All machines will have basic sound. You can get fancy, with better quality sound, more choices for inputs and outputs, which would be useful if you want to use the computer for music recording and editing, or want to hook up a bunch of speakers and watch DVDs playing on your computer.

For CD... a CD burner would be standard. With files getting larger, a CD burner is a very practical thing for storing and sharing files as well as for backing up. A DVD player is also a good choice for watching movies, and also some software now comes on a DVD instead of several CDs. (A DVD holds a lot more data than a CD).A DVD drive will also read CDs. There are also drives that read and write (burn) CDs and play DVDs, this may be a good all around choice. Finally you can get a DVD burner, this will also play and burn CDs. With proper software you can create, edit and burn your own DVDs and play them in your living room (not all drives burn discs that will play well in all settop DVD players, so you will want to check this specifically if that is what you want to do). I have a DVD burner, but not for making video DVDs, I use mine to store and backup data. I have a lot of data on my machine, so when I do a backup, instead of sitting at the computer to swap CDs each time one becomes full, I can put in one DVD, walk away, and just come back when it is done. It is a beautiful thing.

No one asked about monitors. Bigger the better, but bigger is more important for graphics work, not only for image size but also to be able to put all of your software tool palettes for editing onthe screen and still see your image. My setup actually has TWO monitors attached (you need two video cards for this, or one special videocard with two monitor hookups, which is what I have). This way when I am working in Photoshop or GoLive or Illustrator, I can keep all my "tools" on the smaller second screen and have my large main screen clear to see the project I am working on. Also is nice to have a document (like a forum post) open on one screen while I compose response in Notepad on the other, without having to juggle the two to reference the questions .

The more important decision nowadays is LCD vs CRT (CRT is a standard monitor, big box with a glass picture tube). LCD has advantages of being small and light, if desk space is an issue. But their image quality doesn't meet the standard of a CRT. An LCD is a "pixel based" device, which means it is designed for one particular resolution. It will look very good at that resolution, but you are stuck with that resolution if you want a sharp picture. LCDs are also not very color accurate, which is important if you are doing design work, especially with photographs. LCDs are also more expensive. If I had the extra cash, I would use an LCD for my second screen and keep my nice CRT for the actual editing... that would free up a lot of desk space here.

Did I cover it all? USB? That's standard by now, and everything from mouses (but not chickens of the sea) to printers to external hard drives hook up to them. Firewire may be an option, this type of connection is much faster than USB and is important for video editing. If you have a digital video camera, for example, and want to transfer the video to your computer for editing. Note this refers to a real video camera, not the video mode of a regular digital camera.

Intel vs AMD? I don't think there is much to consider. I am steadfast in the use of Intel but only because of personal prejudice I guess. I have used an AMD machine with no problems and no complaints. Since Intel designs the chips, software makers write their software for Intel chips, and AMD makes their chips to "mimic" the Intel chips so that the same software runs, it just seems more "stable" to me. In practice though, I think that is not only not the case, but also software designers have embraces some of the features that AMD has added to their processors, so it is not longer strictly a "follow-the-leader" game.

Any other questions?

Angel, to address some of your specific comments...

Wordprocessing is not taxing at all, so any basic computer will serve your purpose. See my "minimum" suggestions posted above. For software you will want to ask your school about that, for the classes you will probably want to use at home the same software they are using in school, whether it be Microsoft Word or Wordperfect or something different. Ask them.

Downloading, uploading, and printing pics is also pretty easy for the most basic computer... until you said "Photoshop". The program itself will require a little more from the machine, but having a real professional app also indicates you may want to do some serious work on this machine, if not now, then sometime soon. For Photoshop, you'll want a fairly fast processor, but not something that will break the bank. If you will be working on large files (high resolution images from a higher-end digital camera... or high resolution original artwork) then you'll need to make sure you have enough memory for Photoshop to work on them. I would definitely not go below 512Mb, and 1Gb is probably the sweet spot here (note there aren't really any choices in-between). I would highly recommend the 1Gb if you are going to be doing serious photo editing, EXCEPT for the fact that my "monster" machine here has "only" 512Mb, and I work on large photoshop files with Illustrator and GoLive open on the same machine, and don't really have a problem. I think you can definitely get by with 512 but if you can afford the 1G go for it. If you are just using Photoshop for small picture editing of low res "snapshots" strictly for printing for a photo album, the lessor requirements will certainly do fine. Photoshop is a really serious tool though, if that is part of your classwork, they may be expecting you to do some fancy stuff with it, so the higher end would be better.

Another consideration is that Photoshop files will take up considerably more room than the jpegs and gifs you download and use on the web. (jpeg and gif are "compressed" formats designed to provide a small file size, at the expense of image quality or flexibility.) So a larger hard drive will may be a bigger consideration as well.

For web building, will you be taking a class in that as well? Or working (or learning) on your own? Techically a whole website can be built with nothing other than a text editor and some software to process the images (like Photoshop). Most likely though you are thinking about a more serious web building tool. Something designed to do simple websites won't be too system taxing... but something like GoLive or DreamWeaver will demand more. The same 512M memory I suggested would be good here, and 1G if possible. Remember that I have 512M and often run GoLive and Photoshop together with other apps too with no problem.

A faster processor will also be of use with GoLive and probably with Dreamweaver as well (I haven't used Dreamweaver so I cannot speak first hand). In particular I find GoLive has a LOT of palettes that I not only like to keep open at once, but many of them have to be made large to be useful. GoLive is the only app that I really can't stand having to work with only one monitor. What you can do though is consider the largest monitor you can afford... it's not the size that matters (a monitor running at 1024x786 resolution will have the same amount of stuff on screen no matter what the monitor size) but rather the ability to crank UP the resolution... which makes everything on screen smaller, which lets you fit more Windows and palettes on screen comfortably, and then the larger monitor will help so you can still read everything on the screen.

And if you are doing photo editing there is no contest... CRT, not LCD. If you are doing color work you won't be able to adjust colors acurately with an LCD. A CRT will be sharper for editing as well. Get as fine a "dot pitch" as you can (the smallest number) to show the smallest details the most sharply. Make sure the monitor will work at the resolution AND refresh rate that you want to work at... resolution is how many pixels fit on screen, and refresh rate is how fast the picture redraws. The 60Hz "standard" refresh rate is horrible, some people (like myself) can actually see the screen flickering, and it gives me a headache to work at it for any period of time. Screen flicker from too low a refresh rate is more noticable in your "periferal" vision as well. Luckily most monitors and video cards will work at 75hz or 85hz which should be fine. Many monitors won't be able to do their HIGHEST resolution and KEEP their high refresh rate however. The highest resolution may well be (and often is) something that would be too small to work with. But if you want an 1800 x 1200 resolution for example and a 75Hz refresh rate, it isn't good enough to find a monitor with that resolution and that refresh rate... it has to be able to do that refresh rate AT that resolution. These figures are always published in the monitor specs.

So get a CRT and use the money you save by not buying an LCD to get a larger model CRT. You could probably work on 17in, 19in might be really nice, 21 in would be perfect but might be too expensive for now. You can get a 19in and be happy with it until you are ready to upgrade.

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I think tomorrow you need to ask me this again so I can give you an answer that you can actually use... this train-of-thought, stream of consciousness stuff works well for me but must make everyone's head spin. Hope this starts to clarify at least a few things though. I should organize this better so it is more presentable.

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--http://www.idexter.com

[willoughby]

try the comsumer reports website. You can get lots of information there. Or buy Consumer Report magazine.
If you want something just to play around on dont spend to much money. Also, when you deceide what to buy try ebay as well. good luck

"you only have one chance to make a first impression"

[pebblypoo]

Thank you Ambrose Monk.

<font color=purple> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated--Gandhi

Sometimes I lie awake at night in bed and I ask, "Is it all worth it?" And then a voice says, "Who are you talking to?" And another voice says, "You mean, ' To whom are you talking?'" And I say, "No wonder I lie awake at night."--Charlie Brown </font color=purple>