Controlling Our Thoughts - How?

lizardlady · Dec 04, 2022 at 09:45 AM

Years ago someone told me they call their nagging, negative thoughts "Little F'er" except they use the F-word. They taught me to say "Shut up you little f'er" when the negative thoughts start. It's guaranteed to make me laugh.

Sometime later I learned about the Buddhist concept of monkey mind. I have a small stuffed monkey that I would tell "Shut up you little f'er.

I also use a grounding technique I learned. When monkey mind starts I focus on what I can observe in the here and now with each of my senses. What do I hear? What do I see? Etc....

Nammu · Dec 04, 2022 at 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

@Nammu

Oh wow. I read that book (Zen...motorcycle *maintenance*) in the 90's in my twenties. Found it really interesting but hard to get my head around too. Wasn't till I'd grown a bit that I understood what Pirsig was saying. Then I read his follow up book 'Lila', which was a real joy to read. You might like that one too Nammu.👍

I was much too young when I read those books. Lila sounds good.

TishaBuv · Dec 04, 2022 at 10:53 AM

I think it’s using a muscle which, with practice, strengthens. The bad habit of negative thinking can lesson with each time the muscle flexes to replace the bad thought with a good though. For negative self talk, telling myself I am bad essentially, I try to stop and remind myself I am good. I have a DBT workbook, and will open it to any random page and start reading when in spiraling negative thinking now sometimes. I really have to fight my inclination to go down the negative self talk spiral and, of course, feel better when I can put myself on distracted better footing.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

I think that's true to the extent that we can change, or try to change, our responses to such thoughts in terms of different courses of action regarding them. In that sense you could say there is a level of control over them. But in terms of making these thoughts 'go away' all together, well, that could take time. Time working on oneself in a process of self transformation. People also call it a process of healing.

Hi m.o.s, I agree; I like your term "responses." My choice of the word "control" our thoughts was all wrong and I was posting whilst too tired and too pressured. I wish I could change the title of this post.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieJastrow

I liked the book the power of now. He suggests that we need to accept that our bad thoughts are not us. They are a diseased brain. We don't have to listen to them. We can just accept that we are different from those thoughts and laugh at them. Ie. disassociate ourselves from them. It is difficult to do... but as you do it more often it does help.

Yeah, Eckhart Tolle uses an effective method of "watching our thoughts" rather than "becoming our thoughts."

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discombobulated

I’ve found acknowledging the thoughts is helpful, forming a habit of STOP, standing back and looking as an observer at that thought, questioning it, posing alternatives.

You’re pretty good at replying helpfully to people here, I guess you could look at it as a similar process - if that makes sense.

I know it’s not always easy though and when our resilience is low and we’ve got stressed going on it’s challenging to stand back from unwanted thoughts.

Hi D, I love the STOP technique. In fact, I invented this thing, well, I think I invented it. Anyway, what I do is envision a very BRIGHT, clear stop sign - RED AND WHITE - (I can't exactly recall, but I think yours are also red and white in the UK and in Ireland). I see that STOP sign, then proceed from there as an observer.

Unfortunately, it's not always easy, you're correct about that. When it comes to times when I'm stressed out over day-to-day "stuff"...prioritizing chores, that type of thing...the STOP technique is excellent. But if I'm faced with deeper, more frightening thoughts, it get tougher...or impossible.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardlady

I have mixed feelings about saying people are in control of their thoughts. I don't believe someone who is delusional or in the middle of a psychotic break has much control over their thoughts. In my own case it took a combination of meds and damned hard work in therapy for me to gain a sense of control over my thoughts.

^^^ This. I apologize, I want to say again that I was mistaken by using the term "control." That was not exactly the term I meant. I think a more accurate word is manage our thoughts.

SO.

You have pointed out exactly why I made this post, liz, and precisely why I struggle with it when my therapist and my husband, and sometimes my med dude (prescriber) tell me I need to "work with my thoughts" or "not allow my thoughts to control me." Wha...But I'm going crazy and I need helllp!!!!

I not only believe you, I wish I could give you the biggest hug ever invented for being smart about taking the steps to see to it that you got medication for yourself and that you got yourself into therapy and worked so hard to gain a sense of being able to work with your thoughts.

You did what worked. That's wisdom, and your self-care is admirable.

So, I'm wondering something. These days, when you feel your thoughts begin to take the wrong direction and you say to yourself, Whoa, liz, time to get back on track. I need to....

What's the first step you take?

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nammu

Like anything it takes patience and practice. They ( yeah who?) say that you need 10,000 hours of practice to acquire a new skill. Meanwhile if you are actively practicing you can take comfort in knowing that there’s and end to such thoughts.

Patience. I'm patient with everyone except myself The practice part is what I'm hoping to figure out, as soon as possible.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeezyks

Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to do it.

Ohhh, truer words were never spoken! Er, written.

btw, my husband, who will soon be 76 (he's about 16 years my senior), used the word "skeezyks" and I said, "WHAT?!" He looked at me, said, Well, yeah, he was just a young skeezyks back then...

I never knew what the word "skeezyks" meant. Now I do. I feel honored

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nammu

Mmm, maybe spiritual? I don’t know. I like using the Buddha concept of empty mind. I call it a null state. To me it’s not spiritual it’s just a coping method, one that works well for me.

I like it, too, it's my favorite way of dealing with my unwanted thoughts, besides listening to music. I've worked with empty mind (at least, tried really hard to) for about 20 years. I used to sit zazen, for a number of years, at an absolutely magnificent zendo (Japanese temple), right on the coast, where I could hike out to the ocean after sitting meditation and find a big boulder to climb up over the Pacific, watch and listen to the waves come and go. Oh, what a glorious opportunity! And the sadness, the guilt I have, is that I used to sit on that huge boulder, looking out over the gorgeous Pacific, gratitude with every breath, at the same time

Possible trigger:

experiencing a strong desire to slip off the boulder into the water and allow the tide to carry me out.

The guilt I felt still bothers me so much it makes me almost nauseous. I wonder if it's genetic, or reincarnation. Or just some horrible defect. Whatever it is, the thoughts drag at me so badly, and I feel like no one except those who have truly suffered with mental illness can possibly comprehend what I mean.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

There's also the practise of 'mindfulness' which is widely suggested by the mental health field and is actually a component called 'Right mindfulness ' of the ancient Buddhist path to enlightenment - inner peace and tranquility. So, it's spiritual in origin. I always use it for self grounding.

Plenty of info and videos on the internet.

Yes. I didn't see this post when I posted the one, a little bit lower, about Jon Kabat-Zinn.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I think it’s part of our design that forced early man to cave paint and eventually create language to sharing knowledge and recording life experiences for those in other generations.

That is such an interesting thought, OE! So...a kind of aspect of evolution. I love the idea that we are here not just for ourselves, but as an aspect of the grand plan of evolution.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

Avoiding certain things where practicable, certain triggering things, can be a way to control unpleasant thoughts invading the mind too.

So very important. I find that we help each other on this forum to learn the important of that. The steps...believing that we deserve to self-care. Recognizing the triggers and accepting that they are triggers. Accepting that triggers truly do damage us. Consciously choosing to avoid them. Making a practice of avoiding those triggers. Making it a habit.

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

Oh great stuff @*Beth*. Sounds like you've been on your journey of the mind for quite some time. Awesome.👍

Thank you m.o.s. Actually, I went to my first "rap group" in 1977. I was in high school and there were a bunch of hippies sitting in a huge circle on the floor of an old house. I was by far the youngest and felt very self conscientious Everyone was talking about *whatever*. I don't think I said a word. But that group opened a world for me. Next was a TM group, I was 17, and that led to meditation. My friends teased me and called me "hippie!"

So, yeah. I've been at this for a very long time. One would think I'd "get it" by now.

I've not heard of that book at all tbh, but I have wondered, from time to time, how mindfulness made it's way into the mental health field. Now I know. Would be an interesting read.👍

Please do give it a read. I believe it would bring meaning and "aha's!" to your own practice. (btw, Amazon's description of it (should you read that) is horrible. The book is quite spectacular. Jon K-Z is absolutely no BS.)

I discovered mindfulness and started practicing it when I became interested in Buddhism and meditation etc, around the year 2000 - twenty-two years ago, wow.🤔 Then around 2005 I found out, to my joy, that it was known about in mental health. Because I felt Buddhism in general could be a valuable mental health tool, and when you look at it, the mental health field is really all about helping people to overcome their mental and emotional pain - and so is Buddhism. The two are united across the expanses of time (in many ways).🙏

It is GREAT that you're involved with Buddhist philosophy and meditation. I truly believe they are so healthy for the mind, body, and soul.

It took a long, long time for the western world to accept eastern philosophy. A lot of that had to do with the Vietnam war, just plain bigotry against anything Asian. Even in "liberal California" eastern spirituality didn't become mainstream until the 1990's - when Kabat-Zinn, who wasn't in any way threatening and had the right credentials, came onto the scene and brought mindfulness meditation along with solid statistics with him.

Prior to that, wow. Not something to be talked about outside of certain groups of people, seriously. I could list examples of the fear so many people had. It was ridiculous, but so real.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nammu

Gosh, it seems like I’ve always known about mindfulness since my uncle introduced me to it in the 70’s but it took years to acquire a semblance of discipline . I just looked up one of the first books I was exposed too, zen and the art of motorcycle repair, 1974! There was another but I can’t find it. Something about Buddha and a path. That was my uncle who lived in California of course!

Great book - a standard! Good on that uncle of yours

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

@Nammu

Oh wow. I read that book (Zen...motorcycle *maintenance*) in the 90's in my twenties. Found it really interesting but hard to get my head around too. Wasn't till I'd grown a bit that I understood what Pirsig was saying. Then I read his follow up book 'Lila', which was a real joy to read. You might like that one too Nammu.👍

Richard Bach - Illusions

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Years ago someone told me they call their nagging, negative thoughts "Little F'er" except they use the F-word. They taught me to say "Shut up you little f'er" when the negative thoughts start. It's guaranteed to make me laugh.

Sometime later I learned about the Buddhist concept of monkey mind. I have a small stuffed monkey that I would tell "Shut up you little f'er.

I also use a grounding technique I learned. When monkey mind starts I focus on what I can observe in the here and now with each of my senses. What do I hear? What do I see? Etc....

I love it!! liz, if you care to share...are you still on meds?

*Beth* · Dec 04, 2022 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I think it’s using a muscle which, with practice, strengthens. The bad habit of negative thinking can lesson with each time the muscle flexes to replace the bad thought with a good though. For negative self talk, telling myself I am bad essentially, I try to stop and remind myself I am good. I have a DBT workbook, and will open it to any random page and start reading when in spiraling negative thinking now sometimes. I really have to fight my inclination to go down the negative self talk spiral and, of course, feel better when I can put myself on distracted better footing.

TishaBuv, I am grateful to you for reminding me of DBT, for bringing it into this discussion.

I have been very lazy about pursuing DBT skills. My therapist works extensively with CBT, which has been meh for me. You know, so-so. She seems to think CBT is effective, but I really don't. But there are a couple of people here on the forum who have brought up DBT stuff and I thought, Hmm, now that seems like good, solid, practical thinking. Effective ways to manage my thoughts when I'm stable enough on medication to be functioning okay. A here and now choice of how to manage my thoughts that isn't exhausting.

Do you like the DBT workbook you're using and, if so, which one is it?

MuddyBoots · Dec 04, 2022 at 07:05 PM

I'm going to advocate for DBT too. I'm doing it solo with my T right now but am hoping to join a group soon. I'm still doing self-destructive things as a newb, but at least now I'm pausing and realizing I'm making choice to be self-destructive, and those things aren't as bad now for the most part.

Aurelius710 · Dec 04, 2022 at 09:56 PM

The Mindfulness of Breathing meditations I learned when I attended a Buddhist temple helped me immensely with negative thoughts. It's exactly what it says on the tin: One is supposed to focus on the breath and clear all else from your mind. I never could do it and it bugged me, until I realized it wasn't about clearing your mind at all, but returning to center. When I did that meditation and my thoughts strayed, I "looked" at my stray thoughts, accepted that they were there and turned my mental self back to center and the breath.

Took a lot of practice to get to that point!

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