General question about abuse dynamics

I wanted to pose a question, just to compare something out of my experience with a certain type of person.

I have found that a lot of people who don't like being accountable for their actions will use manipulative tactics like DARVO, misdirection, strawmen, abusive verbal argument tactics (like bad debate form), rewriting or minimizing the course of events, or even outright gaslighting (usually not so much this last one), but I wouldn't jump to calling these people narcissists or speculating on PDs or anything.

Rather, I find them emotionally immature or maybe have fragile egos and can't handle being wrong or making a mistake, and they will devolve to these tactics so they can stay safe and right and dismiss the other person's concerns. Does anyone else identify with this kind of situation?

I'm not going to go into detail, but there is a specific demographic in my dog sports community who, when even politely confronted with how they've behaved in a way that is hurtful or harmful, specifically they start crying and make themselves the victim, not always entirely DARVO but sometimes for sure. Okay, specifically I will say : there is a type of person who has essentially been taught that anytime they do something wrong or hurt someone (even unintentionally), rather than be accountable and apologize and learn (as we all must do) they will turn on the tears and manipulate to make themselves the victim. And essentially then the actual issue or conflict can never be dealt with, because they're crying and it's all about their feelings getting hurt that someone had a problem with something they did or said. Even if that thing they said or did was super inappropriate and out of line.

I know a lot of people are really challenged to handle conflict, and specifically this most recent time I've noticed it, the person was in a professional capacity, and behaving this way.

I think in general a lot of people have trouble with accountability and rather than ever be accountable, they'll turn something simple into world war 3.

I don't like to put labels on people like abusive, narcissist, other PD, etc., because I feel it's dehumanizing, and rather I like to deal with the human and the actual behavior (to the extent that I will actually deal with it).

Does anyone understand what I'm talking about?

Hi @seesaw - I think I understand about how people jump to playing the victim when threatened.

I also can hear this in people too "I think in general a lot of people have trouble with accountability and rather than ever be accountable, they'll turn something simple into world war 3."

What ways do you try to get around this obstacle?

CANDC

[If you want me to see your reply to this post please include @CANDC in your message - not in requoting my message]

Hi @CANDC and thanks for your response. First I want to clarify that they aren't being threatened - in fact, usually it's just a question. But they may perceive the question as threatening or be defensive about their response, when you (the person asking) are just seeking information.

To be honest, I have never found trying to explain or reason with people who respond this way to have any effectiveness. The best thing to do is see it for the what it is: someone who is emotionally immature or otherwise a big red flag, and walk away.

Recently I experienced this, where the person kept trying to pivot the issue and detract from the actual concern, and I kept pointing them back to the original concern, and they kept ignoring it and discussing something else.

It reminds me of a situation where, for example, you tell your significant other that something they did upset you. Instead of discussing how YOU felt and what THEY did, they respond by saying "well you did X and that hurt ME!" Both wrongs should be dealt with separately and both people need to answer for them, for sure, but what actually happens is the SO doesn't want to address their own behavior, so points it back at the other person instead of addressing the person's concerns.

Anyhow, as I said, I don't generally make friends with people who do this, I hold boundaries.

I guess I didn't state my question too well, which went more to the idea of not everyone out there can be a narcissist or abuser, but there does seem to be a lot of emotional immaturity and integrity?

I sort of figure that these types of responses are connected to points of arrested development. That the responses were learned when someone was a child, didn't have the maturity or tools to know how to respond appropriately- not to mention probably learned the behavior in the line of several generations who exhibited similar issues.

One of the most interesting books I've ever read is "The Angry Smile." These people did the definitive work on passive aggressive behavior and how the behaviors develop in childhood as a maladaptive coping mechanism- and then often continue unchecked throughout life. To the people who practice passive aggressive behaviors, they've learned that it works very well for them. Whyever would they change their approach to the world? Until they are held accountable by others, they probably won't change. Even if others use tough boundaries, they still may not change. It seems like other maladaptive and manipulative behaviors could have similar roots.

Ita with your observation.