[JUNGIAN]

ON TUESDAY AUG 12TH MY DAUGHTER ASKED ME (AFTER THE GIRLS SECOND REFERENCE) IF SHE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEM WANTING TO PLAY THE TOUCH AND FEEL GAME WHILE THEY WERE BOUNCING UP AND DOWN ON DADDY'S BED - I STARTED OFF BY SAYING THIS WAS NOT BEHAVOIR I HAD ENCOUNTERED WHEN THEY WERE HERE FOR THE DAY OR EVEN WHEN I GAVE THEM BATHS TOGETHER - I EXPLAINED THAT SEXUAL CURIOUSITY WAS NOT THAT UNUSUAL FOR HER FIVE YEAR OLD OR FOR THAT MATTER THE THREE YEAR OLD ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY BOTH ATTEND THE SAME SPECIAL ED PRE-SCHOOL. I TOLD HER SHE SHOULD KEEP A CLOSE WATCH AND DISCUSS IT WITH THE FIVE YEAR OLD'S SOCIAL WORKER AT THE SCHOOL AND ASK FOR HIS ADVICE SINCE THEY MAY HAVE PICKED IT UP FROM SOME OF THE OTHER KIDS AT SCHOOL BECAUSE KIDS ARE CURIOUS AND SOME LIVE IN GROUP HOMES WITH OLDER CHILDREN - HE GAVE HER THE SAME ADVICE I DID - KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS OPEN - IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, IN A NON-THREATENING WAY GET INTO A CONVERSATION ASKING THE OBVIOUS WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN AND EVEN IF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AGAIN THAT SHE NEEDED TO START TALKING TO THE GIRLS ABOUT INAPPRORIATE AND APPROPRIATE TOUCHING - YOU WANT TEACH THEM WHAT IS GOOD TOUCHING AND BAD TOUCHING WHILE AT THE SAME TIME NOT SHAMING THEM.

FRIDAY AUG 15TH I GET A CALL FROM HER TO LET ME KNOW SHE WAS ON HER WAY TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE THE GIRLS EXAMINED. THE SUBJECT CAME UP AND SHE DID AS I AND THE SOCIAL WORKER SUGGESTED - AND THE ANSWER TO WHO PLAYS TOUCH AND FEEL WITH YOU? WAS DADDY. THE FIVE YEAR OLD (ASPERGER'S PDD-NOS) WAS CONSISTENT IN HER STORY ON FRIDAY WITH THE MOTHER, THE POLICE, AND THE HOSPITAL SOCIAL WORKER AND AGAIN ON SATURDAY IN A ROOM ALONE AT CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES - THE THREE YEAR WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WAS GOING DOWN THE LINE ACCUSING EVERYONE INCLUDING THE POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS QUESTIONING HER SO HER TESTIMONY WAS DISCOUNTED. THE HOSPITAL FOUND THAT THERE WAS EXTENSIVE VAGINAL IRRITATION AND BRUISING ON THE FIVE YEAR OLD AND TO A LESSER DEGREE SOME %#@&#! AND VAGINAL IRRIATATION ON THE THREE YEAR OLD.

FIRST SHE WAS TOLD THE POLICE WOULD BE ARRESTING THE FATHER AT WORK ON FRIDAY - THEN THE POLICE SAID THEY WOULD BE ARRESTING HIM AT THE HOME AFTER THE HOSPITAL DID THE EXAMINATION THAT EVENING - THEN THE POLICE TOLD HER HE WOULD BE ARRESTED THE NEXT MORNING BUT THAT THEY TOLD HIM HE HAD TO VACATE THE HOUSE AND NOT COME BACK UNTIL IT WAS ALL RESOLVED - THEN THEY TOLD HER HE WOULD BE ARRESTED MONDAY WHEN THEY GOT THE FULL HOSPITAL REPORT - BOTTOM LINE IS HE HAS STILL NOT BEEN ARRESTED BECAUSE A) THE HOSPITAL COULD NOT CONCLUSIVELY SAY WHAT THE DEFINITE CAUSE OF THE IRRITATION AND BRUISING WAS AND B) THEY COULDN'T TAKE THE TESTIMONY OF A FIVE YEAR OLD.

WHAT REALLY CONFUSES ME IS THAT THEY CHECKED HIS COMPUTER AND FOUND ON HIS BROWSING HISTORY WHERE HE HAD BROWSED DOZENS UPON DOZENS CHILD PORN SITES INCLUDING ONE ENTITLED "DADDY TEACHES DAUGHTER TO F..K" BUT DID NOT TAKE THE COMPUTER AWAY FOR EVIDENCE AND THEY NEVER SAID TO THE FIVE YEAR OLD CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE YOU PLAY THE TOUCH AND FEEL GAME - AFTER THEY WERE TOLD BY THE MOTHER THAT THE ONLY TIME THE GAME COMES UP IS WHEN THEY ARE IN DADDY'S BEDROOM BOUNCING ON HIS BED.

OK - SO FINALLY MY QUESTION

THE FIVE YEAR OLD IS A TEXTBOOK ASPIE - SHE CAN'T AND HAS NEVER LIED - SHE JUST SIMPLY CAN 'T! - WHY IS YOUR SISTER CRYING? - I HIT HER....WHO BROKE THAT? - I DID - TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE ASPIES CAN'T LIE - AT LEAST SHE CAN'T - AS BRIGHT AS SHE IS SHE DOES NOT HAVE THEORY OF MIND OR COGNITIVE ABILITY.

IS IT AT ALL POSSIBLE THAT AN ASPIE COULD BE COACHED? AND IF NOT SHOULDN'T THE POLICE BE TAKING THIS CHILD'S TESTIMONY ON FACE VALUE?

edited to add trigger icon

[wisewoman]

I am so sorry for the children. No answers but hang in there and demand that he be charged. Good luck.

[katheryn]

sorry no advice just to let you know i read and acolgied your post (((((((((((JUNGIAN and family )))))))))))))

[Lenny]

As far as I know an ASPIE does not demonstrate a cognitive value in deception. There is no purpose in lying.

I can't begin to share how immoral the behavior is of someone who would take advantage of such precious souls...but then you must be experiencing the same frustration...

I hope that whoever is at fault is found and put with their peers...and that the children receive the very best support..

Lenny

First I want to say... what an horrible situation! I really feel for you!

I've got aspergers myself and I can't lie. If I've said something untrue I have to correct myself because it would haunt me night and day. My son's got asperger's as well. He NEVER lied up until a couple of months ago... then he began to lie to get away from situations which worried him. But... he ALWAYS tells the truth in the end! He can't keep the lie alive... he just can't... the truth must come out.... so it does.

FIrst of all I am very saddened for the child and you
WHen any child makes this statment it should be believed and take serious till proven other wise imo
for anyone to go threw this
I am so sorry
here are some links
to Asperger Syndrome

http://paulcooijmans.lunarpages.com/psy/asp.html
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/
http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical.../asperger.html

[hurtingintn]

i did some research on the subject and you might want to check out the following web site i pasted..there is a place where you can email a doctor (might be a T) and ask any questions on the subject you want..good luck and best of wishes to you and the children...
PJK

http://www.aspie.com/

[SeptemberMorn]

Jungian, having been a victim myself of this attrocity, I suggest that you step in to protect your granddaughters IMMEDIATELY! YOU and the mother have enough proof of what is going on. STOP IT NOW!!

If I was you, if you haven't already, I'd help my daughter pack the necessities for that monster and put them outside the house then have the locks changed. Those babies are going to have a most difficult time already. No more!

[SpottedOwl]

First, I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

I'm not sure if this will help, but in my experience the understanding of Asperger's Syndrome is still somewhat low among medical professionals, and is likely lower in public service workers.

Because the syndrome is so new, the police might not understand that a 5 year old with AS is much more likely to tell the truth and a 5 year old NT.

I would encourage you to reach out for whatever support you can, including assessing whether the social workers, police, hospital workers, etc. really understand AS. Maybe look for a local support group for the Autism Spectrum, and solicit help from other parents.

http://www.autism-society.org/
Has a listing of local support groups

I wish you strength.