[pachyderm]

The "normal" world reacts. It reacts in terms of its experience and what it has been taught and accepted from the society around it. This works reasonably well when it is confronted with facts that are not too far outside the "normal" range, events that are not too extreme. It works for the people whose inherited physical, mental, and emotional structures are reasonably within a "normal" range, and whose experience of life has not overly damaged them and reduced their ability to cope with life.

The "normal" world does not think. It does not need to. If it is confronted with abnormal events or people, it classifies them into "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong". "Good" people are those who make one feel safe and good, at least in the short term. "Bad" people are those who make one afraid. Rules, regulations, and laws, rewards and punishments, are set up to make bad things go away.

The "normal" world is not "scientific". The "scientific" world, when confronted with strange events, even ones that can be very threatening and frightening, says: "Look, things are happening; let's see if we can understand what is happening, and why." It does not divide events and people into good or bad, right or wrong; it tries to see "things" as they are, and to understand them, not force them to "behave".

Are we "normal" people? Does our experience of the world show us that we will be treated with interest and attention, or does it tell us that we will be shunned and mocked and bullied? If the latter, is there some way of understanding that, in contrast to the "normal" world that does not try to understand us? Are there some advantages to being not "normal"? Does our distress force us to achieve something that is not required of the "normal" world?

[Angel_of_the_Past]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Are we "normal" people? Does our experience of the world show us that we will be treated with interest and attention, or does it tell us that we will be shunned and mocked and bullied? If the latter, is there some way of understanding that, in contrast to the "normal" world that does not try to understand us? Are there some advantages to being not "normal"? Does our distress force us to achieve something that is not required of the "normal" world?

Normal...such odd word. I prefer to think of everyone as unique and special in their own way. Being different is a positive trait, it allows us to push the boundaries of life and question the average. We are trend setters and leaders. We have higher than average IQ!



Pachy...you bring such great thoughts to the world. You help us all ponder the greatness of life!

Hugs Angel

[gimmeice]

((((((((( pachy ))))))))))))))

I really think that normal is way overrated, uniqueness is great in any form it allows us to question the "social norms" and challenge such things. Uniqueness leads to great discoveries, art, and other very cool things.

(pachy))))))))))))))) i think there is no normal
as everyone has said
we are wonderful the way each one is....
yes ppl are shunded for being different as you said...
but so many are looked at as really talented ppl
the advantage to being ourselfs is we can find inner strenght from that...
am i normal? hope not.....I prefer to be me....
hope all is well with you
muffy

[pachyderm]

I got started on this kick, I think, after reading the book "Emergence" by Temple Grandin. She is an "autistic" woman who has made quite a career for herself in animal understanding; she has a Ph.D. and all, and her story is one of an early struggle, considerable difficulties with the "normal" schooling system, and creating her own individual way of coping with the "normal" world. Much self-teaching and not easy, and as a result she has made contributions that a "normal" would not have done.

[Angel_of_the_Past]

Originally Posted by muffy

(pachy))))))))))))))) am i normal? hope not.....I prefer to be me....
muffy

"We can all be angels to one another. We can choose to obey the still small stirring within, the little whisper that says, 'Go. Ask. Reach out. Be an answer to someone's plea. You have a part to play. Have faith.' We can decide to risk that He is indeed there, watching, caring, cherishing us as we love and accept love. The world will be a better place for it. And wherever they are, the angels will continue to dance."
- Joan Wester Anderson

[Sannah]

So Temple found her way like we all have to and this is a huge contribution. I like the word functional better than normal........

[kim_johnson]

she is amazing. my supervisor heard her give a talk at a conference once and he said it was far and away the highlight of the whole conference. she didn't seem to look at, notice, or care that there were other people in the room while she went through her thing - but has such amazing insight into the workings of animals.

i'm not going to rant about the US educational system (i promise!!!) but it is very rigid with respect to `requirements everyone must meet in order to proceed'. that system isn't forgiving for people who excel in some areas and make a royal mess of others. so... people who are 'different' are selected against by that system and so it is always refreshing to hear of the odd case that made it through (in spite of it) and who go on to do great things!

there are many more... many more people, i mean. we are used to thinking of medical or mental 'disorders' or 'conditions' as dysfunctions. failures of 'proper function' or whatever. that is to focus on what people can't do. we aren't used to thinking of them as merely different (which is of course all that science tells us that they are). we are used to superimposing our (unwarranted) value judgement on that. and our value judgement impedes / prevents us asking the question 'what else do they do differently' and in particular 'do they do some things better?' she wouldn't have done what she has done if she didn't have the behaviors that resulted in her being dx'd with autism / autistic spectrum. it is sad that the system works against people who are different succeeding (preferring to reward the kind of educational success that money can buy)

[madisgram]

a very thought provoking topic...
"are there advantages of ....?"
well i don't know if i consider myself normal or abnormal but i would like to answer your last question regardless. the fact that i was diagnosed bipolar and alcoholic did change my world for the better. both diagnoses gave me reasons to seek professional therapy, etc to try to understand life and myself, better. i had a lot of misconceptions either taught to me by my parents, society, or self-ways of coping. the end result of therapy for the bipolar and a 12 step program of recovery for alcoholism enabled me to "became" who i am now. i truly know that these changes were for the better. i have a more forgiving spirit towards myself and others. i no longer see through glasses tinted black or white, i see shades of grey. i am able to realize that grey is ok. i am more able to take ownership for my actions be they be "good' or not so good. i am much more grateful for everything because of my bipolar and alcoholism. sounds weird to some i suppose but through this self discovery and learning how to live a healthier, happier life my whole perception of life has changed. this process ignited a love of life, an appreciation of family, friends,& strangers i honestly can admit i may not have mastered as well as i have done without those two components happening in my life. they became the catalysts for a better me, i think. a new and improved me..

[kim_johnson]

i guess i wonder though why one needs dx labels in order to work towards making the changes in ones life that one wants to make. i mean... aside from the whole health insurance thing...

so basically... dx may be necessary in our society because of the way 'help' is set up. it is unfortunate that we need to medicalize distress in order to do that, however. it is certainly conceivable that there be societies that don't medicalize distress but who assist with it never theless.

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by kim_johnson

i guess i wonder though why one needs dx labels in order to work towards making the changes in ones life that one wants to make. i mean... aside from the whole health insurance thing...

so basically... dx may be necessary in our society because of the way 'help' is set up. it is unfortunate that we need to medicalize distress in order to do that, however. it is certainly conceivable that there be societies that don't medicalize distress but who assist with it never theless.

hi kim, saw your post regarding this. thought i'd reply since i too had posted at this topic before. for me personally to explain the dx thing, i didn't know what was "wrong' with me in both cases until i got a dx due to totally meliting down and on "self-destruct." just thought i was born to be miserable and so out of touch with the "world". so being "medically distressed" helped me. at the time of the 2 dx's i had no health insurance or means to pay. i was fortunate to receive the help nevertheless. so at least for me i could have gone through my entire life not knowing there was available help to improve my quality of life cause i didn't know what was out of whack with me..just instinctively knew i was different from my friends and family.

[kim_johnson]

but the thing is... that psychiatric diagnoses are basically short names that apply to a certain number of behavioral symptoms. so providing a diagnosis is just a short way of describing your behavioral symptoms. so... you drink much more than is good for you / good for others and hey presto you get to have 'alcohol abuse disorder' or 'alcoholism' or whatever... alcoholism is particular controversial (many believe that god somehow implants this disease entity that has yet to be discovered by science that stays with you all your life whether you are ever exposed to alchohol or not whether you ever drink or not). some people benefit from not drinking. ever. some people find it really very very very very hard to not drink. or really very very very very very hard to stop drinking once they have started. i think it is a shame that diagnostic label seems to be what is required for people to feel their distress / difficulty is legitimate or understandable by others or whatever...

given the way society is set up (where drinking too much is considered a medical disorder and where medical disorder gets you special consideration from other people who have been similarly diagnosed etc) getting the label might be what is required. there are many cases where diagnosing causes harm, however... i think it is a shame we do that is all...

> i didn't know what was out of whack with me..just instinctively knew i was different from my friends and family.

well... you knew you drank too much than was good for you and that they didn't. i guess i still fail to see what additional information was provided by a diagnosis...

[madisgram]

[quote]

Originally Posted by kim_johnson

but the thing is... that psychiatric diagnoses are basically short names that apply to a certain number of behavioral symptoms. so providing a diagnosis is just a short way of describing your behavioral symptoms. so... you drink much more than is good for you / good for others and hey presto you get to have 'alcohol abuse disorder' or 'alcoholism' or whatever... alcoholism is particular controversial (many believe that god somehow implants this disease entity that has yet to be discovered by science that stays with you all your life whether you are ever exposed to alchohol or not whether you ever drink or not). some people benefit from not drinking. ever. some people find it really very very very very hard to not drink. or really very very very very very hard to stop drinking once they have started. i think it is a shame that diagnostic label seems to be what is required for people to feel their distress / difficulty is legitimate or understandable by others or whatever...

oh sorry, i guess i didn't explain...i didn't know i was alcoholic or what alcoholism was. (dummy me and i was about 35) i had gone to my internist cause i had health complaints and told him the only thing i could give him as input for the whole situation was that i thought i was drinking too much and prior to that i'd never drunk much at all. he pooh-poohed my input and upped my zanex. thank goodness for me i didn't fill that rx or i'd probably be dead.
since seeing the doctor didn't seem to work, i then contacted an alcohol related facility for analysis about my drinking. i am probably the only person on earth that has ever been relieved for this label, alcoholic, but i knew something was wrong but didn't know what til they gave me that term (label) and became educated on what alcoholism is. i have no doubts about their diagnosis even 18 years sober. so providing me with a dx enabled me to recover from the condition.
as for the other thought provoking part of your post...
i'm sure some people may have had incorrect dx on whatever and it could carry itself around in their medical records and harm them. in my case bipolar disorder has a miriad of symptoms/behaviors, some similar in a population and some equally different.
so for me, i just see these "labels" as identifying tools for treatment of an individual. it really doesn't matter to me what they call something in me that needs fixing, i just need to know how or learn how to fix it.
thanks for your thoughts on this. i enjoyed our exchange of ideas.

[Junerain]

(((Madisgram)))

What a powerful gesture- throwing away the glasses that perceive the world in black and white....and welcoming the (((grey))) in

I am working on that myself..

((((Catalysts))) what a beautiful word to describe a beautiful process...the process of....recovery!