[DechanDawa]

I read about a clinical trial where a combination of meditation and exercise resulted in a 40% improvement in depression in six to eight weeks. I was going to start doing this as an experiment for six weeks when I got sick with a terrible head cold and was in bed for several days. So I didn't start the program. This made me wonder -- what if you start to depend on vigorous exercise --- and you can't do it for awhile -- will you slip back into deeper depression?

I hope to start this program tomorrow and will keep track of my depression and anxiety over a six week period. I can only hope that more sunlight will also help things along.

This 40% kind of shocks me. That seems like a huge improvement in such a short period of time. Also, the trial report did not specifically say "mild" as opposed to deeper depression.

[barbella]

It will be interesting to hear how you do. I hope that the increased daylight will also be helpful. I don't know what to say about your question (if you can't exercise for a while). But I am actually not surprised that there was such a big improvement. My T has me doing something aerobic daily (that's the goal - it usually happens) & I have been meditating daily for about half a year now. I think it is helping. I'd love to hear how this goes for you!

[DechanDawa]

I meant I am starting today. Yay.

You say you think it is helping. Mmm. Not overwhelmingly???

The idea of meditating twice daily (my idea - am and pm) doesn't seem difficult at all. In fact, I am sure I will really enjoy it. (Have meditated for years, except when really depressed.)

Aerobics is kind of scary because I had panic attacks this year, and I hear that sometimes people shy away from aerobics because maybe it feels like the same as a panic attack -- with increased heart rate etc. I will start with walking, and maybe not even too briskly to start.

It seems that one to two hours of combined meditation and exercise daily should make a difference but I really don't know, either. It's an experiment.

Well I don't know about the 40% but I am pretty certain that the combination of physical activity and mindfulness should result in a positive outcome. I was 'under orders' to initiate this by my CBT therapist. I do in fact feel better. It could be in part too to the returning light and the imrpoved weather. If anything, it makes my days filled with something as I had previously sat around ding nothing. By maintaining and keeping up with the daily schedule, so too have I something to be proud of. It provides a sense of accomplishment.

Personally, I think any amount of physical activity would have positive results for emotional well being and health. It need not be rigourous. Even Yoga and stretching are likely to be positive.

I commend you for committing yourself to this.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by rcat

Well I don't know about the 40% but I am pretty certain that the combination of physical activity and mindfulness should result in a positive outcome. I was 'under orders' to initiate this by my CBT therapist. I do in fact feel better. It could be in part too to the returning light and the imrpoved weather. If anything, it makes my days filled with something as I had previously sat around ding nothing. By maintaining and keeping up with the daily schedule, so too have I something to be proud of. It provides a sense of accomplishment.

Personally, I think any amount of physical activity would have positive results for emotional well being and health. It need not be rigourous. Even Yoga and stretching are likely to be positive.

I commend you for committing yourself to this.

rcat well done, good for you. I hope it helps me as it has done you. I read where any kind of exercise will do, even weight lifting, but the study specifically used aerobics. The meditation the study used isn't mindfulness. It is a sitting meditation practice, which is different from mindfulness. Mindfulness is something you use throughout the day. Meditation is a set period of taming and training the mind. That this study combined these two intrigued me. Sitting meditation practice can sometimes make depression worse. But to combine it with walking practice is kind of genius, I think. Zen always combines sitting meditation practice with physical exercise...mostly cleaning or gardening.

My doctor also "prescribed" exercise, but since my pdoc looks anorexic it kind of turned me off! lol

What I mean is she doesn't look healthy, and I felt like telling her maybe she should stop "religiously" exercising daily and cut down a little, and start ingesting more calories. She said her family is "genetically thin" but she has those big elbow joints that are wider than the rest of her arm! Red flag. Anorectic elbow joints or Angie Jolie elbows!

I digress. I am excited to start because like you said, rcat, it will get me off my depressed butt. I have been feeling better lately, though.

[Skeezyks]

Hi Dechan: Well... you know where I'm at with regard to this... walking... walking... walking... walking meditation, walking my dog, & just plain walking... I've done sitting meditation periodically over the years & just never found it to be particularly enticing or helpful. It always felt like a chore I had to get around to. I've also done some yoga. It was fine... but still not exactly an "oh-wow" experience. Walking is, I guess, just "my thing".

I believe there are many things one can do to "organize" one's environment to one's psychological advantage. Recently on our local public television station, there was a series run titled: "The Brain with David Eagleman". (David Eagleman is a neuroscience researcher.) One point made during the series was that much more of who we are, & what we do, is controlled by areas of the brain to which we have no conscious access than we would typically imagine. Also it was mentioned that these non-conscious areas of the brain react to such things as violent or scary movies as if they are real events. So if I watch a violent movie (I wouldn't... but if I did) while consciously I may understand that it's just fantasy, non-conscious areas of my brain will react as if it's real. String enough of these experiences together & it seems obvious to me what the result is likely to be.

To me, this suggests something important with regard to how we live our day-to-day lives & struggle to maintain out mental health. We can choose to listen to soothing music rather than loud raucous music... or we can sometimes simply choose to dwell in silence. We can choose not to watch violent, frightening movies, TV programs, video games, etc. We can avoid, or limit, the use of caffeinated drinks (I'm working on that one...) & other stimulants. We can avoid crowds if being around masses of people is problematic for us. And, of course, as you point out we can meditate & exercise. (I'm even in favor of therapy, if one can find a good therapist. Personally I've never been able to.)

It seems to me we have allot of potential control available to us. And I think before we turn to powerful pysch med's that may or may not help, & may have potentially troublesome side effects, we should try to do whatever we can to arrange the various aspects of our day-to-day lives in such a way that they contribute as much as possible to our well-being. Then, if we're still struggling, it makes sense (to me) to take medication.

Anyway... I'm excited to learn of your new 6 to 8 week plan! Please keep us all informed as to your progress. I celebrate your decision & wish you every success!

Oh, by the way... with regard to the concern regarding not being able to exercise, or meditate, due to illness, Pema Chödrön's books are choke-full of insight with regard to this very real concern. Essentially what Ani Pema teaches is that such experiences are opportunities for us to grow. We can "lean into" them, breathe into them, & essentially strive to see them as "teachers" rather than as impediments. That's not to say that this is easy to do. It's not. But it's a vision to strive for...

[DechanDawa]

Well, Pema's tradition comes from the Tibetan meditation tradition where walking and certain vigorous yoga-like exercises are always incorporated into meditation retreats. I find the combination very appealing, on paper, at least. But we shall see.

[DechanDawa]

The idea of leaning into painful situations as a teacher sounds like when people say, "God doesn't give a person more than they can handle." BS.

Sometimes, it appears, God does give a person more than they can handle, and the result is suicide.

And sometimes adversity is less a teacher and more just trauma. For instance, I have yet to meet a war veteran who talks about what they went through as a good teacher. They just don't. Ironically, the Buddhist monk I met who had been an American soldier in Vietnam was angrier than any other ordinary Vietnam veterans I know, including my brother.

I am sorry, but depression is not a demon I want to have tea with, as Pema might suggest.

[DechanDawa]

I guess I must accept that if one wants to avoid psych drugs, then one has to become a bit stoic about dealing with depression.

I see depression as a tricky mental demon that needs to be constantly swept out of the house.

If you keep a clean house the demon might remember that, and will try to return and bring all its friends. So it is good advice to guard to sense doors. I totally agree with not watching violence. I don't even follow violent news stories anymore.

The truth about depression is that often lack of stimulation is more of a problem than over stimulation. The antidote for this would be to get out of the house, exercise, go to group meditation and the like. I will never give up my coffee and tea. I would be a zombie without them, and besides, caffeine gives one a little kick of dopamine which isn't all that bad for someone battling depression.

[DechanDawa]

Meditation does not have to be connected to religious or philosophical beliefs. It can just be a form of mental hygiene. Pema is a Buddhist nun in an ancient Tibetan Buddhist lineage. It may sound like she is giving psychological advice, but the idea of leaning into pain and pain as a teacher...these ideas are actually advanced level Vajrayana Buddhism.

Meditation can be simply a form of mental hygiene, and walking can simply be walking. For now, that's about all I can handle, and it's good.

[DechanDawa]

Have been doing the program for about 10 days to two weeks. Started out walking 50 minutes daily and am up to 1.5 to 2 hours. I meditate twice a day for 30 minutes each session. This week we had a big snow storm so I can't walk but will do treadmill tomorrow. I am also starting to lift weights. I feel like my depression and anxiety are about the same. The difference might be that I believe the program will work if I stick with it. I have lost a few pounds despite eating really well, and have been sleeping okay. At first I was exhausted and thought there was something wrong with me. Turns out I was just out of shape!

Sounds very interesting, I think I would like to try that, Thank you for the article, I hope it works for me

[cheshiregrins]

I'd believe the 40% stat. Running has a dramatic effect on my mood.