[SakuraLi]

hello everyone, I`ve been coping with a schizophrenic boyfriend for 7 1/2 years now. I`ve sought advice here in the forums before months ago during a really weird, non-communicative rough patch in our relationship. finally things are back to normal. anyway I`ve known for a long time that his Doc is planning to take him off meds because according to the Doc my bf has a mild case of SZ. I think this is true because my bf`s episodes were really obsessive-delusional in an annoying way at worse and never psychotic towards anyone that I know of (he`s only been though a bout of suicidal depression). he`s a nice, good guy trying to get himself together but I wonder what things will be like if he is off the meds. He does not seems to know that he was ever obsessive or delusional but he knew he heard voices and thats not normal. I just worry about him getting obsessive and delusional again. its very hard to deal with. and for me i would not choose to stay with him if he went back to being like that. I just want to know does anyone one here have experience with a loved one who has mild SZ with NO violent or unpredictable mean behavior who has gone off meds? were they ok? did they have any relaps? what can I expect? i know everyone is differently affected by this disease but generally speaking what kind of things should i be aware of what questions can i ask? I`ve already done tons of research and found mixed info most of which was negative and a few positive things too.

I don't have schizophrenia myself or know anyone who does but I wanted to answer you. Is there a possibility you can talk to his doctor about your concens? He might be able to tell you what to expect or how to handle things. In addition you could possibly change his mind. I think its worth a try.

[SakuraLi]

Talking to his doc is not possible, we are in 2 different cities far away from each other going to college. I told my bf what I found in my research about treating the disease, and going off meds could be a disaster and he said he would talk to his doctor about it. He is so laid back about it and he is not even doing any research about going off meds. He really doesn`t seem to get that SZ is a serious disorder he thinks he will be cured once he is done with the meds! Not true according the the personal stories I`ve read. its just possible to treat it and make life managable for some people with it. It so frustrating! I try to stay hopeful and positive but the situation with him and me is just frustrating to put it mildly. And most of that frustration has nothing at all to do with his SZ, maybe. I just feel like we are not compatable and never have been, I stayed for the wrong reasons and just want out and I don`t know how to say it in a nice way. Like our goals in life are so polar opposite and I was hoping we could meet in the middle but his goals are so basis they don`t fit in with mine and he wants me to give everything up for him! There is no way I`m doing that. And the list does on too long. But I`ve ranted about that before in previous posts. Anyways thanks for your advice katlover.

[Perna]

Could it be you only have part of the story if you haven't talked/heard directly from the doc? Maybe your boyfriend's doc is going to take him off to see how well he functions with the intention, if it doesn't work well, to put him back on.

If you all are in different places, physically, what is your experiences with your boyfriend based on? Phone conversations or in-person?

I would address your more personal concerns about your not being compatible now, let your boyfriend worry (or not :-) about his health.

[SakuraLi]

To answer you questions, Perna:

Could it be you only have part of the story if you haven't talked/heard directly from the doc?

Yes, I already stated that I'm not able to talk to his doctor because I'm in a different city. So why are you asking me that again?

Maybe your boyfriend's doc is going to take him off to see how well he functions with the intention, if it doesn't work well, to put him back on.

My boyfriend told me that his doctor only planned on taking him off meds, not just for the purpose of seeing how he does with out them. But obviously the doc will monitor my boyfriend's health and if he is having trouble he would go back on the meds. I can only go by what my boyfriend tells me, he really doesn't seem to question a lot of things so I don't know how much he really asks his doctor. But I gave him some questions to ask his doctor, such as info on relapses as such.

If you all are in different places, physically, what is your experiences with your boyfriend based on? Phone conversations or in-person?

What are you talking about? Before we parted ways for college we were together in person, obviously...

I would address your more personal concerns about your not being compatible now, let your boyfriend worry (or not :-) about his health.

First of all we are NOT totally incompatible. We have some conflicts and differences sure but we have a lot in common. He just tends to be laid back and I tend to be more questioning of things and proactive. Relationships have ups and downs. Before I scrap a 7 1/2 year relationship I'm trying find out what can be done, that's why I'm on here in the first place. And especially trying to learn more about SZ this seems like a good place to ask a lot of questions.

And why wouldn't I be concerned or worried about my boyfriend's health, Perna? I don't get your line of questioning!

I appreciate your effort at giving me advice Perna, I just think you come across as a tad, (no a ton) judgmental and condescending. That's exactly why I was not too receptive of your comments on my posts some months ago. I also notice you give less actual advice than you give sort of quips or biting comments.

Are you a partner of someone who has schizophrenia or any other mental illness? Do know how hard and frustrating it can be from our perspective? I doubt it! People who are not is our shoes have no idea! I'd rather hear from people from my perspective when I vent.

Sometimes we get angry, sad, depressed, hopeless and want to talk about it. People with those feelings are who I want to talk to. Those type of people get what I'm saying and how I feel. All I want is to hear from people with good advice.

If you just have an axe to grind with people who are frustrated, tired and want to vent, your comments are NOT welcome to me.

That's all I have to say to you, Perna.

[madisgram]

just a thought...your bf's doc may not have suggested he go off meds. you are getting this info second hand from your bf. many ppl with MI go off meds cause they think they're ok. it's an illusion most times. i don't know if this is the case or not. i caretook my schiz. ex-husband so i'm up on the info re this phenomenon. due to the HIPPA act his pdoc cannot discuss your bf with you. from your post i gather you are possibly aware of this.
you had some great questions regarding his going off meds and researched this too. imho, his going off meds could spell disaster. keep us posted, k?

[Perna]

Sorry if you were upset by my questions, SakuraLi, that was not my intent.

[SakuraLi]

Thank you Madisgram, I appreciate your insight. Based on what my bf has told me it was his doctor's idea but I don't get why his doctor would have him go off meds after 3 years of having so-called "mild SZ" even mild SZ is a disease and needs to be maintained. I would just wonder what his doctor is basing this decision on. Based on what my bf tells him his current mental state is? But my bf says he hasn't heard voices I believe a long time, I don't know how long. And that is why my bf thinks means that he is better. He has been communicating with his doc about the condition for 3 years but it seems obvious he knows very little and even less about what his loved ones go though supporting him with it.

I really don't want him off the meds for his sake, mine and his family. After all would a diabetic go off insuline because they feel better? NO! So I just want to express this to my bf while I still have time and he's not off the meds, right now he is doing so well with school and work and it would be a shame for all that to be ruined.

I do believe he has mild SZ as he said his doctor said but I want him to have a full productive life and I need him to learn about going off meds, even if I have to research everything with him and show his step by step. No matter what it takes I need him to know the riskes because he doesn't seem to know or understand. He's very hopeful and I don't want to take that away from him. Hope and his faith in God was what has helped him and me through this 7 1/2 years. But the emotional rollercoaster has driven me to depression and anxiety, frustration and anger and sadness. Most days I just cry because I wonder what am I doing, why am I staying.

He's always been a kind and loving partner, and I thank God for that and should be greatful that my boyfriend has made an conscious effort to not say mean things to me when I get frustrated with him. I have sad a lot of not nice things to him because I just get so annoyed with him before I knew anything about SZ. He feels so hurt by my frustration and its such a cycle, I don't know how to manage. Plus, I tend to cry sometimes when I talk to him and that doesn't help matters either.

I know its not easy being in a relationship period. But especially with a partner with SZ. I just wonder if this is worth it. I love being with him but trying to figure out if it's worth it will be the hardest part. The only thing that really scared me and messed me up emotionally was when my bf was suicidal at one point and before that he would always saying he didn't know how long he would live. And saying as long as he had me, he had something to live for. And they really freaked me out. When a guy thinks that, that can become very dangerous for a woman, for obvious reasons. On a daily basis I had to talk him down from the proverbial ledge, but it really cause lots of psychological damage having to do that. And he knew something was wrong with that but was scared to get help, I begged him to see a councilor he finally did, once or twice but didn't continue. What he needed was a psychiatrist. But suicide aside he is was and is a great guy.

But anyways Madisgram could you tell me your opinion: is it worth it to stay with a boyfriend with SZ who has never been mean or violent and he is a kind and loving partner? He can go to school and do a simple job and I feel he will suceed if he stays on the meds. There is only one problem long term: he wants a family and wants me to be a stay at home mom and that scares me. And if we did stay together and have kids and things were ok but he suddenly changed for the worse, which I pray never happens, he might try to use the kids as a way to keep me from divorcing him and taking the kids.

I don't want to believe that would happen but it could be a possibility, even non-mentally ill people flip out and that happens.

Also, my dream is to work in TV production and I know that will require long hours, maybe traveling and my bf told me that I would have to cut back on some of my goals to stay with him more. That made me so furious, and I chewed him out. Well that was last year before I knew that people with SZ needed partners to stay with them and stuff and that could be a deal breaker, having to stay home and all, I want me and my bf to go out and have fun together and I think with the meds it could be possible. He can go to work, shop, pick up his mom from work, handle all sorts of business and I am so proud of him for that.

I just don't want any of that to be lost, those meds have opened up a more comfortable world for him and he is thriving and I just think he would go far and be able to do everything he needs to do with medicinal assistance.

I've read the countless horror stories about SZ partners and that has prompted me to worry and search for answers, which now I know there are no concrete answers. I constantly worry about my future with him. I'm trying to better myself with a college education I just don't want to walk into a situation and knowing full well what the risks are and make a really dumb choice.

Also, how is your ex-husband doing Madisgram was he able to stablize on meds and be productive? But more importantly how are you doing? Are you able to have relief now and rebuild a normal life after that marriage?

[Sad_Spouse]

Hi SakuraLi -

I am very new so don't want to overstep my bounds, here. I once knew a person with Schizophrenia who realized by himself that something wasn't right and took himself to get not just medication but also therapy. He said that the therapy really helped a lot and the medication helped to reduce the delusions, but his psychiatrist was going to allow him to eventually possibly come off the meds again.

I thought that was quite strange, given that once before he'd taken meds, gone off himself and the delusions returned. I asked a professional that I know and he told me that it might have something to do with the side effects of the antipsychotics and maybe the psychiatrist was just giving him a "drug holiday."

It sounds like you're feeling almost panicked at the thought of your BF, this person whom you have loved so much and who does so well now, coming off medication, and what that could mean to your own dreams for your future. It must feel awful to have all this evidence from your own research about how much better he can be with the meds and it seems like he's not listening to anything you have to say. It must be very frustrating.

[SakuraLi]

Thank you Sad Spouse, I appreciate your input. And welcome to the forum, I hope you will find some good support here. The meds issue is so hard to deal with. That's the thing that can help the quality of life so much. But I have read scary things about side effects too for antipsychotic drugs. So I'm worried but I know I can't worry too much because I have to take care of myself first or I've nothing left to give others.

This journey over the 7 1/2 years have just been weird and tiring and with my own personal issues and going through college it has come to the point where I feel hardcore depressed and struggling myself. The question I ask myself is all this worth it? I want to say yes because I've helped him with things so he will have the tools to succeed but I also feel like its not because I have suffered emotionally so much and feel like I've gotten little in return.

I wonder is love with such constant drama (pre-treatment and meds) real love? I feel like it's settling. And then post treatment much less drama to where I can really breath and not hold my breath waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, this 3 year time period felt like real love, I mean real real love.

Also, can a menally ill person really love someone else in a healthy way? I just have so many questions. Because the mind is so altered in a mentally ill person, it can be challenging to know if they can love people in a real way. I know non-mentally ill people who don't love people in a real way so, I just wonder these things.

Anyway thanks for listening and good luck on your journey through support and finding your own answers sad spouse. take care.

[Sad_Spouse]

Hi SakuraLi,

First, thank you for responding to my post, that really gave me a lift.

You are really grappling with some difficult questions. "Can a person who is mentally ill really love?" I think that depends on the state of the illness and very much on the individual.

This is just my own personal opinion, but I think we all love at whatever capacity we currently have. For example, I believe that the "puppy love" of two kids in junior high is just as real and valid as the deep, rich, mature love of a couple who have been successfully married for 50 years. Both couples are loving at their full capacity based on experience and maturity.

I think, and remember this is just me rambling on here, that it's more a question of are the two individuals able to love at approximately the same capacity so that both can feel fulfilled and happy and able to grow in the relationship? Or if there is a disconnect, can the one who loves more be okay with knowing the other loves less - after all, no relationship is really 50-50.

Then there's the question of "is it still worth it?" That one is extremely difficult. A person has to decide with so much weight on both sides of the scale, you know? Do I still love him/her? and how much? Is it going to get better/worse? What are the risks of it getting better/worse? Am I willing to take those risks that it will get worse/make that wager that it will get better(and maybe it doesn't and now I've put in even MORE time)...

I can totally relate. I'm 50 and what if my husband is never the same? Financially it's totally better for me to stay with him but what will my life be like if he is never like he was, or worse, if he does get better but doesn't love me like he used to?

I feel your pain.
SS

[SakuraLi]

Originally Posted by Sad_Spouse

Hi SakuraLi,

First, thank you for responding to my post, that really gave me a lift.

You are really grappling with some difficult questions. "Can a person who is mentally ill really love?" I think that depends on the state of the illness and very much on the individual.

This is just my own personal opinion, but I think we all love at whatever capacity we currently have. For example, I believe that the "puppy love" of two kids in junior high is just as real and valid as the deep, rich, mature love of a couple who have been successfully married for 50 years. Both couples are loving at their full capacity based on experience and maturity.

I think, and remember this is just me rambling on here, that it's more a question of are the two individuals able to love at approximately the same capacity so that both can feel fulfilled and happy and able to grow in the relationship? Or if there is a disconnect, can the one who loves more be okay with knowing the other loves less - after all, no relationship is really 50-50.

Then there's the question of "is it still worth it?" That one is extremely difficult. A person has to decide with so much weight on both sides of the scale, you know? Do I still love him/her? and how much? Is it going to get better/worse? What are the risks of it getting better/worse? Am I willing to take those risks that it will get worse/make that wager that it will get better(and maybe it doesn't and now I've put in even MORE time)...

I can totally relate. I'm 50 and what if my husband is never the same? Financially it's totally better for me to stay with him but what will my life be like if he is never like he was, or worse, if he does get better but doesn't love me like he used to?

I feel your pain.
SS

Thank you for giving your insights Sad Spouse it was very helpful to me. It just seems like women with mentally ill parners have so much to think about, plan for and it just weighs on us.

Also, I was wondering is it ok to just tell my bf at some point (kindly of course) something along the lines of "I need you to committ to taking care of your own health and continuing the meds for the good of yourself, our relationship and the other relationships in your life?" Or possibly coming out and saying something like, "It's your personal choice about how you choose to deal with your health but if you go off the meds without fully understanding and researching the draw backs and possible relaps complications, than I can't continue the relationship with you. Our relationship pre-treatment was very challenging enough for both of us just imagine if it was like that again."

These are things I'm considering telling my boyfriend. Because I've been at my wits ends for a long time and if he goes off the meds and goes back to being the sweet but on and off depressing person that he was before is going to put a further strain the relationship and I can't stick around for that.

I'm just trying to figure out how to give a kind ultimatum without seeming negative. This is so hard because I love him so much. It seems like on a basic friendship level things are great with my bf but being emotionally involved with him has been so tiring.

Also a major problem is that he gets jealous if I have normal human contact with guys. It's so annoying he gets really weird about me talking about my male friends and stuff and it just bugs me. So I don't even mention guys to him anymore. Since I plan on going into a male dominated field in the near future, just mentioning a guy to my bf could make my day, week, month or year a tense and stressful one. I want to be able to tell my bf everything but his mild paranoia could ruin a lot of opportunities for me in the future.

Oh and he seemed to get jealous in the past when I met a new lady friend and me and her would go for our girls day outs. It almost seemed like he didn't want me to be happy outside of when I was spending time with him. I just hate worrying about all these stupid little hassels with him. It's so emotionally draining.

I know having a relationship and eventually a marriage requires some sacrifice but I don't want to give up my own needs, dreams and goals to make him happy, if I did so I would be friendless, jobless and miserable. I'm ultimately concerned about in the future when we finish college and come back together, (if we make it that far) how can have and maintain a decent social life and still have a great life with him. I don't know how I could do that if he gets jealous and feels lonely when have my separate activities. I love spending a lot of time with my bf as it is but it's fun to do things without him too.

We've had talks in the past for years about what I want to do for work and my plans and he wants me to cut back A LOT of what I want and that just makes me angry and have no idea what to do. Give in or hold firm?

[Sad_Spouse]

Hi SL -

I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you pretty much know what it is you want to do.

Speaking for myself, I do think that it is okay to ask for what you want in a relationship and then if your needs/desires don't get met, it's time for a reappraisal of, "is the relationship more important than this need/desire/wish, or is this one a deal-breaker for me?"

So just as you have the right to ask for space to do your career, have friends, whatever, your bf has the right to ask you to be more of a stay-at-home gal going forward. The question is, can the two of you negotiate so that it's a win-win for both?

As far as the meds - you have the right to ask him to stay on them, but he has the right to say no.

We're in a slightly different situation as our partners have different dx and the potential ramifications for coming off meds are different and your bf is doing okay right now, I believe - is that right? (it sure would be nice if you could go to an appt w/his psychiatrist, but I know you don't live close enough to do that) but for right now, I have told my husband that he has to want to get better. If he suddenly decided he didn't want to stay on his meds or he didn't want to go to therapy at this point - I would start making plans for my alternate future.

But again, we're in completely different situations. Right now my husband doesn't know if he loves me or not and we're not very close. He's also very, very ill right now. I don't know how women stay for years and years and years - they must be stronger than me.

But don't get me wrong - it's not like I could just pack a suitcase and leave tomorrow, either. It would be a long and agonizing process to actually make the decision, just as it seems to be for you, b/c, like you, I really, really do still love my husband and I want him to be the way he was, just like you want your bf to be his best self...

It's very difficult.

SS

[SakuraLi]

My heart goes out to you and all you`re going through Sad Spouse. Thanks again for providing some great suggestions. Yes, my bf is alright per se. Yet constant drama always happens, for instance he called me Christmas eve which was cool but didn`t call Christmas day. So I got super upset and called him and I ended up crying. He was trying to cheer me up and all but I cried the entire conversation. He said he was spending time with his mom. Thats fine and all but not calling for at least 5 minutes to say merry christmas that was just too weird to me. Sometimes it just doesnt seem like he gets what is important to me and when I tell him he gets all stressed out and after Christmas he stopped talking to me. He`s only sent a few text messages and called once a few days ago which was the first time since Christmas! he left a voicemail acting like I`m the one not communicating. I`d replied to all his texts but appearently he didnt get them because he texted and asked if i got his texts and when I dialed his number the call seemed to get automatically disconnected which is so weird I can`t imagine what the problem is. I dont know if he is disconnecting me on purpose or if there is some real technical problem. The littlest things in the relationship turn to instant drama and its so annoying. I read recently and I needed to be reminded of this that drama just goes with mental illness. Its a very tough life for those with the various diseases and those who love them.

[Sad_Spouse]

Originally Posted by SakuraLi

My heart goes out to you and all you`re going through Sad Spouse. Thanks again for providing some great suggestions. Yes, my bf is alright per se. Yet constant drama always happens, for instance he called me Christmas eve which was cool but didn`t call Christmas day. So I got super upset and called him and I ended up crying. He was trying to cheer me up and all but I cried the entire conversation. He said he was spending time with his mom. Thats fine and all but not calling for at least 5 minutes to say merry christmas that was just too weird to me. Sometimes it just doesnt seem like he gets what is important to me and when I tell him he gets all stressed out and after Christmas he stopped talking to me. He`s only sent a few text messages and called once a few days ago which was the first time since Christmas! he left a voicemail acting like I`m the one not communicating. I`d replied to all his texts but appearently he didnt get them because he texted and asked if i got his texts and when I dialed his number the call seemed to get automatically disconnected which is so weird I can`t imagine what the problem is. I dont know if he is disconnecting me on purpose or if there is some real technical problem. The littlest things in the relationship turn to instant drama and its so annoying. I read recently and I needed to be reminded of this that drama just goes with mental illness. Its a very tough life for those with the various diseases and those who love them.

Hi SL -

This sounds very distressing and confusing - men are hard enough to understand without the added layer of mental illness. That seems to confound already confounding and frustrating communication sometimes.

It's definitely hard to know if he's deliberately cutting you off and ignoring your texts b/c it's too overstimulating to deal with your emotion, or if there is a genuine technological glitch.

I'm sorry your Christmas was so rough - yes, indeed, he certainly could have picked up the phone for 5 minutes to wish you MC but he didn't. One thing I am definitely noticing is that depression has made my husband selfish. Maybe when a person is ill, sometimes they don't have energy left over.

But your bf is stable so that sounds more like he just plain didn't call you. Nobody "forgets" to call someone they love on an important holiday. If only he would talk to you about what he is really feeling, maybe you guys could get past this glitch.

Good luck -
SS

[lovelystars]

People like you a God-sent sakurali! I think that's so great you look through his condition to see the man he really is. I think it's concerning though that the doc wants to take him off his meds since he's doing so well...I'm bi-polar, a neighbor of schizophrenia, and have had hallucinations also. In my personal experience, off drugs he's setting himself up for relapse I fear. He might be fine for a little bit but may I suggest you ask him about getting a second opinion? As for the capacity for mentally-ill to love...actually we often feel deeper than those not afflicted with mental illness. The key is in my opinion that when you're mentally ill you need to remind yourself on a daily basis to use those feelings as fuel into actoin to show your partner how you feel. Over 90% of bi-polar marriages don't make it. This means I have to work EXTRA hard in my opinion to ensure my spouse is taken care of the 99% of the time I am fine, because when that 1% comes along and I am not...he is going to be giving a lot more than I can ever imagine, just as you do for your b/f.

[SakuraLi]

Sad Spouse I agree this situation is confusing and to be quiite honest I have been confused 90% of the time over my entire relationship with my bf (before his treatment)! He didn`t say he forgot to call he just made the excuse that he was spending time with his mom christmas. I don`t know why that would prevent him from calling. The only thing I can think of is that in my research of schizophrenia they often do things and have reasons that make no logical sense to anyone but them but the only problem is that he has ALWAYS been constant with his communication and holiday greetings and special occasion greetings. So this just bothers me. And I especially want to try to hash things out before he comes off the meds. cuz once he off theres only a matter of time before things could get even worse. And thanks for your kind words lovelystars and great insights. My heart goes out to the mentally ill and their loved ones. it sure is a hard road to be on. I honestly dont know if i can do this anymore with my bf. even though I go through more drama than a soap opera I love my bf and think he is a kind sweet guy but i also wish i could leave sometimes I know now that there will always be the back and fourth drama rollercoaster bc that goes withe the condition but the decision to really go is so hard.

[SakuraLi]

PS. Sad spouse, as I think more abot this. for me its understandable that my bf was focusing on spending time with his mom on christmas because he has been mending his relationship with her for years since he started meds. he has gone from not liking her (pre-treatment) to being a good helpful son. so i totally get it. it just really hurt he didnt call for a few minutes. I think to him he was doing great with our call on christmas eve the ecard he sent (i love the ecards he sends). the question I`m asking myself now is "should i lower my expectations?" of him and I dont know how to begin to answer that. I dont even know how to figure out what trade offs I should just accept. In my heart i know my bf still loves me very much but the shifts in our set traditions in the relationship and interacting are just so tough. The relationship has been a win-win just not a 50 50 win win know what I mean? I get less of a win.

[Sad_Spouse]

Hi SL -

That makes a lot of sense, that he was focusing on the relationship w/his mom and that he likely thought all was well w/you and that he'd done enough by calling X-mas eve and sending you an e-card that was something he knows you really like - it's great that you figured that out. Also, the extra knowledge that people w/SZ think differently and things that make sense to them may not make sense to us might compoud the issue.

That said, I feel a strong need to also say that men can really be buttheads sometimes. :-)) They just don't get that certain things are really important to us (like calling your beloved for 3 minutes on Christmas Day, even if you already called her Christmas Eve) b/c they just don't think like we do. A lot of them learn a lot of this stuff as they get older, particularly if they've got a good male role model to teach them.

Unfortunately, we do have to learn to tolerate their foibles, just as they have to learn to tolerate ours and in any relationship that scale slips all over the place on different days so that some days we're giving more and some days they're giving more (all things being equal).

I guess just like being married or in a long-term relationship with a person in a wheelchair, you probably WILL always have to give more than he does unless he stays on his meds and stays really stable and goes to school, gets a job, etc., etc. Some people with SZ have really successful lives. Do you know about Elyn Saks? She's had SZ since college and went on to become a psychologist and a law professor. She credits medication and psychotherapy with keeping her together, although she still is at risk for occasional breakdowns. She wrote a great book called "The Center Cannot Hold." She really WANTS to be well, though and like a lot of people, she had to learn the hard way that she has to have her meds.

I'm going to be away from home next week but I'll try to check in. I'll be thinking about you, though. You know, if in the end you decide you can't stay, that doesn't make you a quitter or a bad person. Each person has to decide for her/himself what to do. I go back and forth every day on should I stay or should I go if he doesn't get better. Not all of us are cut out to put in that 20 or 30 plus years with someone who is ill because it does mean that there will be a potentially less happy life ahead.

anyway, I've rambled long enough! I hope you have the best weekend you possibly can - see a bird in a tree or pet a dog or a cat or hear a great song on the radio, something to give you a little lift.

SS

[Sad_Spouse]

Sorry SL, I'm having a pretty cynical day. I can't wait to go away next week and forget about him for a week. I don't want my feelings about my situation to color what I'm trying to say. I just want to offer you support. I don't want you to think I'm being patronizing or trying to tell you what to do or think in any way. The things I say are only, only, only what I think - you have to ultimately make your own decisions and you will make decisions that are absolutely right for you, now, at this moment in your life (but I still think men are buttheads sometimes )

[SakuraLi]

Originally Posted by Sad_Spouse

Sorry SL, I'm having a pretty cynical day. I can't wait to go away next week and forget about him for a week. I don't want my feelings about my situation to color what I'm trying to say. I just want to offer you support. I don't want you to think I'm being patronizing or trying to tell you what to do or think in any way. The things I say are only, only, only what I think - you have to ultimately make your own decisions and you will make decisions that are absolutely right for you, now, at this moment in your life (but I still think men are buttheads sometimes )

Amen! I whole heartedly agree, in my own usual way of saying things "guys suck!" but I've met a few who were truely amazing gentlemen. But key word a "few" LOL.

And to be quite honest and blunt, ever since I met my current bf I've felt like I've always been in combat mode trying to be an independent and strong women and not letting him rule me with his personal whims (which he has always tried to do!). The relationship before him the guy was a complete psycho and pervert. So that has colored my perception of men and also the fact I've had really messed up experiences with men in general before and during any relationship, that doesn't help either. And the more soul searching I do I find that I'm neither independent nor strong with men as a thought I was.

So I can say that I'm really messed up about guys in general. But I always feel like I'm seeking their approval and want them to like me so I put up with all kinds of crap.

I tend to feel that my bf is a nice person in general and he's not harsh, or mean or rude yet he's just not the kind of guy I'd want to marry. I feel like I always get sucked into his charm or guilt trips and it's hard to just leave because I don't want him to be mad, sad or disappointed. It's really hard.

Being in the relationship with my bf has caused me to constantly push aside my own needs for his and it's gotten to point where I feel I want to just leave but I keep hesitating and pausing thinking "what about him"? I've never really thought "what about me"? till I started really soul searching and asking questions on this website back in august.

There has been a tension and a shift in my relationship since about May though but it keeps getting worse and worse and the less my bf pays attention to my needs the worse I feel. And this is a guy I've been talking about marriage with for years so this situation is very serious for me. But he has been the one pushing the marriage thing but I've been trying to be cautious but yet I still wanted to marry him believing he'd get better. Once I started to research his condition I just have be in hyper drive worried. I feel like what I have been through is not worth going through the rest of my life in marriage with him.

I guess I'm just trying to look for the right way to leave. I don't feel like I'm staying for the right reasons I think fear is the only thing stopping me and I don't know how to not be fearful.

I guess what's happening for me now is like I'm finally looking at the layers and layers and layers of the history and experiences with my bf and looking at my own emotions and I feel like I've repressed SO MUCH because I know how he use to not be able to handle ANYTHING. I'd always blame myself and second guess myself if he started having break downs. His sort of different and illogical way of processing the world and our relationship often left me wondering "Am I crazy, I must be crazy!" Dealing with him is like being told on a daily basis "everything you knew about the world is wrong, all of your beliefs are wrong, you are wrong."

Of course he has never said it is those specific terms but that's the impression I get a lot from him. Like his idea of love is that of me totally giving up everything that is important to me to spend every minute with him. But he gives little in return and things he has done a monumental job. And he truly believes he has done so great at this relationship. I think that his idea of doing great is just to be nice and a gentleman which he has excellent at no doubt but doing the tangible duties and pulling his weight he has lacked.

Several days ago in a text he said he is getting stressed with school and work and my emotional responses. And I think he takes it extra hard when he screws up and it really effects him when someone point sit out and he feels like a failure. And I also just remembered reading that people with SZ sometimes can't manage to get little details right sometimes. Like some can't do chores or this or that and it's for real they truly CAN'T do it. I think some people with SZ can reach great heights with success on a technical non-relationship level. But the relationship part and stuff is hard.

And being a so-called mentally well person it's so hard for me to even remember all the little bits of info I've researched on SZ and remembering that there is just some stuff I will have to tolerate and remember my bf is not able to do because he is not operating at an optimal mental level. I still don't know if it will be enough for me in the long run that he's a nice, caring, gentlemen but ignoring the fact he can screw up the tiniest detail even a 5 year old can remember! And the fact he might need a lot of attention or need me to stay home all the time in the future.

I don't mean to seem unkind but giving up my life for a man just doesn't sit well with me. If he was family and not a boyfriend relationship I'd have a much more positive willingness to make concessions.

But on a positive note, it is wonderful you will be taking a break from your husband. It will do you some good hopefully!

And also I appreciate you trying to help me and other people on this website. It is very kind and caring for a stranger to assist others in times of need when they are having to deal with their own personal concerns as well.

Also, try not to second guess yourself, you give great advice! I personally am very grateful for you and everyone else's advice. Keep up the good work and have fun on your break, and I hope you do something really amazing that will renew your spirit as Oprah would say. take care, rest and relax well Sad Spouse, you deserve it!

[Sad_Spouse]

Hi SL -

How have you been?

I did have a really good week away. I reconnected with several people and made new connections as well. I got some good clarity regarding my husband and I was feeling quite strong and serene and accepting that he may never love me again and okay with that - but then of course I came home and saw him and he seems a little bit better and my heart melted and again I realized how much I want him to love me again b/c I really do want to stay married. Such a conundrum...

So I read your post and what really struck me is that you seem to be saying you're seeing a pattern in your life of choosing similar men that only end up causing you heartache - is that accurate? I can't remember if you've ever said and I certainly don't mean to pry, but do you have your own therapist to sort this out with?

I have had a fair amount of therapy at different times in my life and have found it really helpful. Please do forgive me if this sounds offensive in any way - I'm just tossing it out there.

I actually have a theory about all of us as women. I think most of us believe we have to MAKE men love us and we forget that THEY are lucky if WE decide to stay with them. Society all over the globe tells us that we are "less than" to one degree or another and we all buy into that message b/c it's all around us and it's very, very hard to think otherwise.

In some ways, it really is the truth, however. We DO carry the emotional responsibility in relationships b/c we are better at it. I read somewhere once that we often carry the man's emotional life b/c they don't know how to do it or something like that.

YOU are special and wonderful just because you are on the planet and even more so because you are a woman. You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect at all times. You deserve to be nurtured in a relationship, not to always have to be the nurturer, unless that is the role you choose.

I hope you have the very best day possible, because you absolutely deserve it.

SS

[Sad_Spouse]

Hey, I didn't mean anything about the therapist - it just seemed like what you are saying is something a professional could maybe really help you with - that's all.

[SakuraLi]

Hi Sad Spouse, it is great to see you back:-) I`m glad you had a good renewing time on your vacation. Its really important for women to take time out for themselves. About therepy yes believe I mentioned that in a couple of posts that I would like to get therepy at some point. But right now Im in college and my mom is paying my insurance and I have told her I want a councelor and she balked and said I don`t need one! But she doesn`t know I`m having such personal issues because I don`t tell her my major issues. She does think mental illness exists and people just use it as an excuse for whatever. She has some really off the mark ideas sometimes I don`t know how to get her to agree to pay for counceling though. She basically likes to deny that problems are really major and she thinkss that people she just suck up there problems and quit whining. So I don`t know how I`m going to get the help I need before I`m able to pay my own insurance. Also your right I have had a lot of similar patterns in terms of the guys I end up with. I have had self esteem issues since I was very young. And also I have a lot of father issues. Which may explain why I get all the wrong guys interested in me. I`ve heard that bad guys can always detect women with low self esteem and they move in to take advantage. I always wished I could find a top notch guys but none of them ever like me. I just wish I could get to a place where I felt good about myself and leave my current bf if he don`t change and find a guy who is very top notch

[Sad_Spouse]

Originally Posted by SakuraLi

Hi Sad Spouse, it is great to see you back:-) I`m glad you had a good renewing time on your vacation. Its really important for women to take time out for themselves. About therepy yes believe I mentioned that in a couple of posts that I would like to get therepy at some point. But right now Im in college and my mom is paying my insurance and I have told her I want a councelor and she balked and said I don`t need one! But she doesn`t know I`m having such personal issues because I don`t tell her my major issues. She does think mental illness exists and people just use it as an excuse for whatever. She has some really off the mark ideas sometimes I don`t know how to get her to agree to pay for counceling though. She basically likes to deny that problems are really major and she thinkss that people she just suck up there problems and quit whining. So I don`t know how I`m going to get the help I need before I`m able to pay my own insurance. Also your right I have had a lot of similar patterns in terms of the guys I end up with. I have had self esteem issues since I was very young. And also I have a lot of father issues. Which may explain why I get all the wrong guys interested in me. I`ve heard that bad guys can always detect women with low self esteem and they move in to take advantage. I always wished I could find a top notch guys but none of them ever like me. I just wish I could get to a place where I felt good about myself and leave my current bf if he don`t change and find a guy who is very top notch

Hi SL -

I apologize - I forgot you wrote that you didn't have the insurance to go to therapy. That is very hard. I definitely have been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. I have a pretty comfortable life now but there have been points in my life where I didn't have the money for the rent.

I know at some of the bigger schools there are counselling centers and it is part of your tuition that you can go for a few sessions for free. Do they have that at your school? Some people don't feel comfortable using campus services b/c they're worried about confidentiality, but campus therapists are bound by the same confidentiality as regular therapists or doctors. As long as a client is 18 or over, no one, but no one will ever even know they have been a client, much less what was discussed.

As far as attracting the same guys or the wrong guys - I swear we all go through that. It's like some kind of ritual of passage we have to do. I can remember being maybe 22 or something like that and literally looking in the mirror and asking myself, "why am I attracting the same guy over and over again???" Really, really honestly - no one in the bathroom but me and the mirror and that was the beginning of change.

The next one was still emotionally distant but he was a MUCH nicer person. I still seem to have difficulty with that emotional availability thing but at least I managed to stop attracting schmucks that weren't nice to me!

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you - I've been struggling with getting back on track with my own school work (I'm a very late blooming PhD student).

You WILL be okay. You have survived so much already. All of this is carving you into a stronger and more beautiful woman. Someday you will look back on all this and it will make much more sense. (At least that's what I like to tell myself! )

SS