[ottavit16]

Without going into too much backstory, let's just say that for several months now I've had a growing suspicion that my ex-girlfriend has undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. When first started dating, the attraction was extremely intense and we became enmeshed with each other despite living 3 hours apart. After a few weeks of physical separation (her mom wouldn't let us visit each other) she broke up with me almost out of nowhere. After a summer of no-limited contact, she moved to my town and was attending my university she had attended before we met. The first day she was back, she called me to hang out, and we became FWB the next day. This continued until about two weeks ago. For the last week, we've had no contact (I've texted her a couple times with no response) and today she got back to me. We had a heated argument/conversation about recent events, and I'm going to copy/paste that here. People have always said that she's "crazy" but never any concrete behavior or explanation as to why. Some key factors to remember is that she hates to be alone, has a history of family emotional abuse/neglect, was date raped as a teenager, history of depression/anxiety and used to cut herself. She also has an ex-boyfriend of the last three years with an off-on relationship, and idolizes him no matter what he does (cheats on her, lies to her, dumps her repeatedly, etc).

Regardless, read on, and tell me your opinions if she shows any BPD-type traits in this conversation. Note: I don't need any opinions of what I should do with her, because I have already made up my mind that I only want my money back and then to move on, stop talking to her. This conversation didn't change that, I only want opinions on whether you think she may have a personality disorder because it will help me with understand this behavior and bring me more peace of mind and closure to cutting her out of my life.

Her: You will get your 60, stop *****ing to my friends about it. I was trying to wait until I got paid back so I could do that, but apparently that's not ok. It will be in your apartment by the end of the ****ing day
Me: You could have just said that. The money wasn't the real issue, it was your vanish off the map for the last week. You said you had it Monday, and agreed to pay me back when you got back from break, but you didn't do that. And I only talked to J about it, because she's my friend too.
Her: Well she just sent me a text about it and she keeps telling you to drop it, that she doesn't care, but you won't stop. I said I would pay you back after break, but that doesn't specify a day. I had money, yes, but like I said, I waiting to give you the money from [her friend who owed her 60$].
Her: And I haven't vanished off the map, obviously I'm still in school
Her: Maybe there just wasn't a point this week that I felt like going down there
Me: Yes, well you didn't say anything about waiting for [her friend] until today. In fact, the last time you said anything this week was on Monday "I have it, you'll get it when you see me"
Her: Exactly. You haven't seen me
Me: Well I'm not a mind reader. What I do know is that since you've been back (to school), neither of us has gone more than a day or two without talking or hanging out, so I figured you were just dropping me and I wanted the score settled before that happened.
Her: Well even if I have to sell myself, that $ will be in your apartment by the end of the day
Her: My life was hell the past week and I was unable to work over break btw
Me: Well how am I supposed to know that if you don't talk to me?
Her: You weren't, that's the point. Nobody is supposed to know anything unless I tell them, and I chose not to tell you. It wasn't any of your business. All you needed to know was that you would get your money, so that's what I said.
Her: Adam [my friend] texted me last week, too - said he wanted to hang out. Have I seen him? No. Have I texted him since? No.
Her: Was I worried when I didn't hear from J for awhile? Yes. I texted/called her every day. When she got her new phone, she texted me n I hung out there the very next night.
Her: But she doesn't even know how hellish my week was. The only people that do are the people that see me/hangout every day, the people who are actually involved in some way
Me: I thought I was one of those people.
Her: Yes, for some things. But you don't have classes with me or see me between classes. You don't eat on campus so we don't eat together... There isn't anything that we are mutually involved in.
Her: The people that know what's going on are the people that experience it with me. It's not that you're not a friend; you are, but you should know by now that I don't tell everybody everything. Hell, I told you that even J doesn't know what's going on, and she's my best friend
Her: I have to leave my group of friends and go out of my way to see you, and when I do, you either try to seduce me or we just sit there and watch tv. You don't even like it when I bring my friends with me! And it's not like I can invite you up to the boys', what would you do?
Me: I know. You can't really blame me for that, though, i don't live on campus or have any classes with you. In fact, I am almost never invited to anything on campus, people only want to hang out at my apartment. But like Jess, the physical separation doesn't mean we aren't involved in your life or don't care when somethings bothering you.
Her: I've been busy, [my name]. I havne't had the time to drop everything and run down to you.
Her: You're involved in some things, yes. But I don't have to tell you anything I don't want to. So I'm not. It's that simple.
Me: That's not true. Just because I don't smoke doesn't mean I don't like playing video games, jamming, just talking, etc. And I don't have a problem when your friends come here, in fact that girls night out thing was a lot of fun. I had a problem when Will always shows up empty handed, and expects me to drive him around and feed him unconditionally.
Me: And we don't just watch tv, we cook meals, we got shopping, we hang out with sometimes my friends sometimes yours, we've played rock band, we've went to the bar, all kinds of things. I'm sorry you feel that coming down her is "dropping everything" but it seemed you genuinely liked hanging out, and enjoyed the peace and quit and having a place to stay / someone to cuddle with.
Her: Will doesn't expect anything from you, nor has he ever asked to be fed. As for rides, he asks sometimes but rarely; he has absolutely no problem walking up to his room
Me: And don't act like the seducing thing is all one way, there has been numerous times where sex and staying over was your idea, not mine. As for Will, Sunday before break you asked him to bring food - he didn't. He didn't even bring his weed, which was his premise for hanging out with you. And if he didn't have ae problem walking back to his apartment to get it, he wouldn't have asked me for a ride there seconds after walking through the door, then later even asking (his roommate) to pick it up for him.
Her: The "girls night" wasn't anything like it was supposed to be, so that point is moot. It's not that going down there is dropping everything, but I do have to drop whatever I'm doing to go down there. I can't write a paper with Tina down there, for example, if I'm already doing it elsewhere.
Her: Or if I have plans? There's not usually a way to mix you/your apt in with that
Her: Yea, you could play video games at the boys', but I don't even do that
Her: They don't even jam up there, so I say again what would you do?
Her: He asked Dan to grab it because you said no about the ride. Why did he ask for a ride? Cuz he had JUST walked down from there. If he had walked back up to get it, he wouldn't have come back down. And if I was in the same situation, neither would I
Her: He admitted to forgetting both the bacon and the weed as soon as he realized. Don't even try to make him sound like a conniving ***
Me: Well certainly gave that impression, because IMO if it was important he wouldn't have forgotten both of them, then tried to get other people to get it for him. But whatever.
Her: I HAVE DONE THE EXACT SAME THING many many times (she hasn't)
Me: You know, you never did respond about the last plans we had. The Tuesday before break, when you said you'd probably come over for breakfast. I texted you when I got out of class, then Will called me from your phone asking for my sources for the paper. Then I asked you about it after I got off the phone and you never responded. That's a major sign of disrespect to me.
Her: I still don't have my humidifier at school, even though I meant to get it when I went to my house with Adam. I have forgotten it every time, even though its important.
Her: I told you over the phone that I didn't think it was going to happen, cuz I was already busy
Her: Not paying attention is also a major sign of disrespect btw.
Me: When exactly did you tell me over the phone?
Her: Just like talking about someone behind their back! (ie *****ing to jess about me) [the parenthesis were in her actual text]
Her: I told you the night before that I wasn't sure, and that if it worked out, I would show up. The next morning, I was up the boys, and I told you I didn't know sometime during / at the end of your talk with Will.
Me: You didn't. Will and I only talked about the project, you were never on the phone yourself.
Her: But I have **** to go do so I'm done arguing
Her: Ttyl

[ottavit16]

I just wanted to point out I posted this on a relationship forum on another site, and the response I got there was "self centered *****" but not BPD. The big thing I gleaned as a BPD trait was her claiming truth in something that never happened "I told you I didn't know sometime during / at the end of your talk with Will" which in truth was the event that started this whole debacle. Lies she has told me before have seemed more of a distortion of reality or false memories, as she either a good liar or actually believes these things to be true. Let me state that in the phone call in question, he called me from her phone and I said "That's strange you're calling me from her phone" and he avoided the question and only talked about the project, at no point mentioning anything about the plans nor did she get on the phone with me.

I've been clean and sober for 6 months, and my memory is as sharp as a tack.

[ottavit16]

I also posted this conversation on a dating forum, and the reply there was "selfcentered *****" but not necessarily BPD. I'm of course no clinician, just an undergrad psych student with my own share of mental health problems, namely PTSD and ADD. I originally started considering BPD when I was reading in an ADD book about it, with problems with interpersonal relationships, chasing intimacy then pushing it away, and cutting. It screamed to me "wow, that's her" and I've been reading numerous books and website sources. In fact, I'd like to cover the DSM-IV criteria:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

--She maintains contact with all of her ex boyfriends, no matter how poorly she described their relationship. I've heard stories of her "frantic efforts" to keep her last real ex boyfriend around, despite him cheating on her / emotionally abusing her / neglecting her, constantly dumping her. She's said "if my brother doesn't like this present, I'm cutting off my entire family for good".

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

--see #1. Her main ex, she seems to have idealized intensely. In my relationship with her, it seems many people she becomes immensely infatuated with then almost seems to forget they exist. See: poor object permanence.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

--Hard to say. When she was asked before her motivations for academic success, her answer was "to get my car back". And after that? "I don't know". She seems to almost adapt and take on the personality of whomever she's with... I.E. when she's with people who use marijuana, she's constantly smoking. When she's with me (and only me) she rarely if ever uses (I don't use anymore). Has distinct body image issues (prior diagnosis of BDD) and believes she is very ugly, despite being quite attractive and thin.

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

Sex, yes for sure. She craves physical contact, and despite stating "I don't want to have sex" once she's cuddling with me (or other males) and foreplay starts, she ends up having sex, unprotected. When she came back to school, she told me I was "in the friend zone" but made sexual advances on me the same day. Sex with her is it's own drug, she's very sexually adventurous, being bisexual, into BDSM, initiates threesomes often. Extremely receptive to touch and stimulation, more than any other partner I've had. Takes clothing off for no apparent reason sometimes. Spending, also, numerous instances of impulsive spending, and also shoplifting. Substance abuse - daily marijuana smoker, has multiple stashes and rarely goes a day without, confident it is a coping mechanism as I have a history of substance abuse myself. She does use other drugs, but nothing on par with her marijuana use. Eating habits - may go a day without eating at all, other times (when high) eats more than anyone I've seen, under the influence or not.

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

--Has scars from cutting. Often picks at scabs, pimples, any skin blemishes to the point where they bleed. Said it makes her feel "alive".

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

--Definitely has mood swings, often when she's not using marijuana.

7. chronic feelings of emptiness

--This I don't know, I think it's something better self described. Believable, from my experience with her though.

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

--Never physical anger, but easy to upset and quick to argue/attack any perceived threat. Has days where she gets angry about something, and projects it on anyone close to her, then out of nowhere will be happy and bubbly again.

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

--I'll just use an example. Once she was at my house with a female friend of hers. They talked about going on a hike, but once her friend invited more people her mood shifted to completely silent and detached.

As I've stated before, I'm no clinician, and of course I don't expect some sort of secondhand diagnosis over the internet. But I'd be more than happy to answer any questions and provide examples.

You also may ask, why I am I posting this? Well, on one hand she is my ex-girlfriend, someone I've grown to care about, and if it's possible she should seek treatment I'd like some third opinions before I consider saying anything about it to her. I've read that one of the worst things about BPD is that these people believe they are "fine" and don't need help. When I met her, she was in weekly therapy and on antidepressants, because she was forced to leave college for "medical leave". Since she returned, she has been off antidepressants but self medicating with pot and engaged in what I see as many self-destructive behaviors. Academically, she was doing very well until she got her car, since then seems to be skipping class more and doing less work. Has no extracurricular activities or job to speak of.

The other reason I am posting this, I outlined in my OP. I am trying to phase her out of my life, because of the stress she causes in it is becoming not worth the pleasure of the times that are good with her.

[BDPpartner]

I'm not an expert, but have lived with my bpd other half for the best part of 3 yrs. In my opinion she doesn't sound bpd; my other half & many i've heard about struggle to keep a timeline of 'events' straight they bring up past events like they have happened that day & they constantly repeat things but not always as they actually happen. It sounds like your ex has been through alot and it is possible she's suffering for a different personality or any number of other conditions. But i'd be worried that labeling someone with a mental health illness is not a job for the non-professionals

[oceancries]

none of us are qualified to label her.

[ottavit16]

This is response to the first two replies. I'm not sure how these forums work with moderators screening every post before it shows up.

I know nobody here is qualified to label her. Not asking for that. I'm just ascertaining opinions on the possibility of mental health issues like a PD so I feel less like the "crazy one" here. Because I do feel a bit unstable and confused at the moment.

Thanks for the opinion, BDPpartner. I never assumed it was extreme BPD, but I feel like she does have some of the traits. I had a second post to this topic that wasn't on here when your replies went up. However, I still think that she does need some sort of help/treatment, though I'm not likely taking the responsibility for her to get it. She seems to have growing resentments towards me that come out in a huge burst every few weeks, that I had no idea were such problems.

[Jannaku]

Hi there. I have read your post and certainly wouldn't put a label on her behaviour. What I can see from your post is that she most certainly has some serious issues and her behaviour is not "normal" so to speak. It doesn't really matter what she has be it BPD or whatever the most important thing is that you have identified that there is a problem and you are no longer involved with her as a result of her behaviour. Consider yourself lucky! With regard to wanting to know what she has - I can relate to that. Many years ago I had the misfortune of crossing paths with a sociopath but I didn't know that at that time. He lied, cheated, manipulated, etc. etc. The whole experience was traumatic and he left our lives in a dramatic way. I needed to validate the whole experience somehow and was determined to find what it was that he had or a label. I knew he had something. When I found it I knew 100% that this is what he was without any doubt. It made me feel better to have found the reason for his behaviour and it provided me with an explanation for everything we had experienced. I subsequently read up quite a lot about sociopaths and it really opened my eyes. Somehow just being able to find the "diagnosis" helps in the healing process. It took me a long time to get over the sociopath experience as I just couldn't comprehend how someone can do the sorts of things that he did. I had a lot of anger to process and it took time but eventually as weeks and months went by the anger slowly subsided and eventually the whole experience left my mind. For now I wouldn't agonise too much about what it is that she has and just focus on healing yourself from what obviously has been a hurtful and confusing experience. All the best.

[oceancries]

I would say she has trouble keeping relationships, thats a trait I believe of BPD.

[ottavit16]

Jannaku thanks for your reply, and your story of a similar struggle. Thanks for your encouragement.

As I said in a previous post, I don't think she is extremely BPD, but certainly shows many of the traits, to varying extents. She does seem to "demonize" and "idolize" people out of seemingly nowhere. If you're on her bad list, you do nothing right, if you're on her good list you can do no wrong. If you openly love her, she pushes you away. Other people close to her have compared her to "a 5 year old" emotionally. One thing I've always noticed about her, is whomever her "romantic interest" is at the time (read: guy for attention/validation) she almost INSTANTLY attached to any women close to that guy. Makes his ex's her "best friends", or gets really close to his girlfriend, etc.

[Jannaku]

Originally Posted by ottavit16

Jannaku thanks for your reply, and your story of a similar struggle. Thanks for your encouragement.

As I said in a previous post, I don't think she is extremely BPD, but certainly shows many of the traits, to varying extents. She does seem to "demonize" and "idolize" people out of seemingly nowhere. If you're on her bad list, you do nothing right, if you're on her good list you can do no wrong. If you openly love her, she pushes you away. Other people close to her have compared her to "a 5 year old" emotionally. One thing I've always noticed about her, is whomever her "romantic interest" is at the time (read: guy for attention/validation) she almost INSTANTLY attached to any women close to that guy. Makes his ex's her "best friends", or gets really close to his girlfriend, etc.

My experience left me reeling and I felt violated, exploited and used because I had offered a helping hand in friendship to this person and invested time, money, etc. I know it's different but because you were an item with this girl your also going to go through a range of emotions in processing the split and her behaviour. It will take time just as it took me time. For a while I felt like I was obsessed with him and his sociopathy as I just couldn't stop rewinding over things and trying to get my head around his modus operandi. Your more than likely going to do the same because you have been wounded by this individual. Look at it as being one huge learning experience and hopefully when your over this acute phase you'll come to realise that the experience has made you wiser and better armed for your future. Take care

[BDPpartner]

Originally Posted by ottavit16

Thanks for the opinion, BDPpartner. I never assumed it was extreme BPD, but I feel like she does have some of the traits. I had a second post to this topic that wasn't on here when your replies went up. However, I still think that she does need some sort of help/treatment, though I'm not likely taking the responsibility for her to get it. She seems to have growing resentments towards me that come out in a huge burst every few weeks, that I had no idea were such problems.

I've read the rest of this thread now and yes perhaps she has traits that are associated with bpd; When my partner was diagnosed we were given paperwork that explain in brief the symptoms for all personality disorders and they seem to share some, however it's having certain combinations that are the tell as to which disorder the suffer has. And it spelt out that most 'normal' people have some traits of pd's so a diagnosis sometimes takes a while to be reached. Even reading everything you've written I still (in my opinion) can't agree with your ex being bpd, normally when i read a post from the non bpd from a relationship it reads like a script of an event from my own relationship, or at least like something similar. But i can't identify the same with your post in the same way i normally do. I do however think she needs some help no matter what her disorder

[ottavit16]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. And to BDPpartner, thanks for reading the rest of the thread. I do believe she definitely needs help, and I'm not the only one in her life that believes the same.

Last night I found out through a mutual friend that she and 3 of her friends were arrested last Tuesday for possession of marijuana. She got a possession charge about this time last year, and her parents pulled her out of school and kept her at home, monitored her activity 24/7 (she described her mom as her "jailer") and kept her in treatment, on medication, and as far from pot as possible. They almost didn't let her return to school for this very reason, and after this event I am 99% sure they will pull her out again and keep her from returning, or even visiting. Next week is finals, and it's likely after that I will never see her again. I can only hope she gets the treatment she needs, and I wonder if I should make some kind of effort to repair the relationship with her (be it as friends or anything) or to just not contact her anymore and let her go. It's always difficult letting go of someone you care about, despite how much pain they've caused you, and right now I'm having a hard time focusing on anything else like my schoolwork... this "rift" with her is negatively affecting my life, and I don't know what to do.

I'm strongly considering if and when to send her a letter via email talking about this, and what to say in it. We've had our fights before, and that's seemed to work in the past quite well. "Forget about her and move on" was something I was prepared to do after the semester ended, when I'd have the 5 weeks of christmas break to cope with the loss, but now knowing I'll probably never see her again instilled an even greater "fear of loss" in me, and the way I am I like to always leave people better off from knowing me. I always try to keep some kind of civility with my old friends and ex-girlfriends, family members that have wronged me, because I cannot help but still care about them. Please give me some advice on what I should do.

[BDPpartner]

Honestly perhaps in the long run you'd be better off leaving things alone. It sounds like she's really in a bad place and i'm sorry to say this but perhaps your need for things to be left on a good note will only make things more complex for all involved

[ottavit16]

Well, I didn't think it would end already, but it has. Today she invited herself over, and I told her "I don't think we should hang out anymore" citing the things she has done that hurt me - details of the text conversation I posted, the breakfast plans blow-off, and flat out ignoring my text of "so am I going to see you anytime soon?" for 24 hours with no good reason. She took this as me formally ending the friendship, and said have a nice life as she walked out the door. Still needing closure, I texted her and I offered her some reconciliation, saying I was willing to fight to maintain some semblance of each other in our lives - but she said I had already tore the friendship to shreds, and there was so little left it wasn't worth fighting for. She even said "He was right about you" referring to her ex boyfriend I mentioned before. So here I am, offering once last chance before I walk out forever, and she can't even apologize for the things that hurt me - instead, attacks me again! I sent one last message thanking her for having the conversation, and giving me the answers I needed. I told her goodbye, and that I hope she finds what she is looking for in life. Her response? A simple "K".

Emotionally, she's a little girl. Incapable of mature love and affection. Even her friends that get too close to her can't handle her behavior and dishonesty, and they leave her too.

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't - either way, I can't concern myself with my desire to care for her or feel sorry for her anymore. I do hope someday she gets the help she needs, and finds closure from her off-on boyfriend be it getting over him or spending the rest of her life in a miserable relationship with him. From what I've been told, he sounds like quite a narcissist; perfect for her, because she will always be chasing what she can't have - his unconditional love. She told me once that his parents split and got back together FOURTEEN TIMES... and he thinks that's normal!

For a long time, I thought I was aiding her getting over him - both during our actual relationship when he stopped talking to her, and even now when her and I were just friends with benefits. She even "broke up" with him after a couple months of being back, although even today she was talking to him on the phone while she was at my place as if nothing was ever wrong. The poor girl will always be in love with this guy, and I feel bad for any future guys she snares in her web of unrequited love and heartbreak. They will never measure up as long as he's in her life. She just can't let go.

Thanks for the replies in this topic, and wish me luck in recovering and coping with the loss of her in my life. I already feel a sense of great relief, and I'm sure in time I'll be the strong, confident person I used to be, only better and a bit wiser.

[ottavit16]

Just figured I'd put a little update to this. It's been a few days since last speaking to her. Last night I had a party, and had fun with other people and met a couple new women too. It definitely helped with my healing process.

Of course, I've thought about my ex a lot the last few days too, including now. I've decided whether she has a PD or not, she has almost definitely suffered some emotional abuse/trauma as a child, and is decidedly very child-like when it comes to dealing with her emotions. Other people, most notably her 21 y/o best friend pointed out it's "like dealing with a 5 year old" sometimes. When trying to analyze her behavior and words, this makes complete sense to me.

Compliments/Insults - It's difficult for her to give genuine compliments - for example, when I asked her recently why she wanted to ever date me in the first place (what stood about about me) she said "you looked sexy, I like you, you're nice" but nothing about my qualities other's have observed such as open, honest, altruistic, caring, etc. With insults, she is often critical of others, and gets very bored easily. She would tell me I'm "ruining a song" when I work hard to cover it on my acoustic guitar. When confronted on her insults, she'd claim she was just being honest and thats how she is. When I dated her, I don't remember receiving a single insult - or really many compliments, either.

Conflict - When trying to talk to her about something serious or something bothering her, she usually "doesn't want to talk about it" and either changes the conversation or makes frantic efforts to physically leave. If she continues "talking about it", it either ends in tears or insults - she gets defensive very easily and is quick to personally attack. She prefers to voice her concerns or angers by text-message if at all possible - knowing this, you can understand why I wanted to hash things out via text with her.

Interpersonal Relationships - When someone gets too close, she pushes them away. She seems afraid of people, especially ex boyfriends leaving her, and when the friendship progresses to an emotional level that the other adult is on, then she will start ignoring that person or pushing them away through attacks. This makes sense if she was emotionally abused; she is used to a relationship where she would reach to her mother or loved one in a time of crisis and be disregarded/pushed away, so she learned not to rely on others or close relationships for support.

Her Marijuana Use - Being a former avid smoker for almost 10 years, I can tell you one of the biggest reasons it's used as a coping mechanism is because it "dumbs you down". It shuts down higher functioning in the brain, and makes a person function mostly on a surface level. By being stoned and around those that are, her childish nature can flourish. I have seen this in a girl I dated previously, who had also suffered emotional childhood abuse and often regressed under the influence of marijuana. I described this as "when she's high, it's like dealing with a 7 year old".

Just in general, she has the excitability of a child as well, and often uses a child-like voice to ask for things, even in bed. She also whimpers like a child. This excitability was actually one of the things that attracts me to her the most, probably due to my own childhood/mother issues. I recognize now how unhealthy this is.

I'd like to say all of this considered, in a few months time I will probably either accept any attempts to repair the friendship with her, or possibly offer one myself if I can tell my emotions are under control. Would be especially easier if I end up dating someone else. But after all of this analysis of her, I can definitely understand her a lot better, and I'm not as angry/upset about her behavior and perceived disrespect towards me. After all, I'm dealing with a child, and she should be dealt with as one. However, this analysis has also given me a clear "mental brick" on why she could never a girlfriend or wife to me, because those issues are not something I could try to fix or live with myself. I hope she gets the help she needs, and manages to avoid any future abusive relationships and suicidal behavior/ideations.

[SSaysRelapse]

I've been in a similar situation as you for the past year and counting. Basically, I have come to the point to accept the fact that there is only a certain threshold where one can feel sorry for, and try to understand, this child we're trying to deal with that just so happens to be in an adult's body. Whatever their problems are, cannot be an excuse, especially when it keeps happening over and over. Whatever their problems are, in my opinion, does NOT deserve our sympathy and our hope that they can eventually get better or get help. When a person knows they're messed up, either by admission of their actions or complete disregard for consequences and responsibility of their actions, they don't deserve anyone's sympathy or well wishes. Doing so will just hinder you in your own healing process. That's just how I see things. Love someone who cannot be loved because they don't love themselves, that's their problem, and you shouldn't feel bad for them because in the end, it's only their fault for not overcoming their own problems. For every person we know (this ex of yours and mine) that can't overcome, there are people even worse off than them that have overcome.

[Vibe]

It mostly just looked like snotty griping at each other which ex's love to do. It's funny - at the beginning of a relationship the other person can do no wrong. By the end they did no right. Even relatively sane people look absolutely atrocious when you talk to their recent ex. When you're with someone you get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly; and emotion determines which comes to the front. So given the context there's no way I could judge it.

Since you're planning to move on and not see her anymore, there's not really any reason to get into her mental health. I mainly will look into things which are over in order to figure out what I might do better at next time, or if I think there's a chance to salvage something. The rest is usually just not having closure, which represents a problem on your part rather than hers. Diagnosing her doesn't help you, and if you think there were personality traits you should avoid in the future, you can recognize those without getting into mental health diagnoses.

Look at what you want and need rather than focusing on her. If you're going to let her go, that means breaking away mentally as well.