Do Narcissists know that they hurt you?

My question is that despite my partner telling me he loves me - he hurts me so much too - calling me names, putting me down and causing me to feel inferior. He is emotionally and sometimes physically abusive. This is usually a result of his anger and 'raging' when things don't go his way. Is he just too unwell to know how much he hurts me particularly emotionally - or is he fully aware of what he is doing? - any suggestions would be great

My suggestion would be to leave him, regardless if he knows he's hurting you or not, he is, he's probably aware of it and just being manipulative when he says he loves you. Narcissists will "love" you to the extent you do what they say, so in that sense "you" is just another extension of himself. The part that is most concerning to me is that you say he is physically abusive, this should be a huge red flag for anybody to leave, regardless of their partners mental health condition. The fact that he is psychologically abusing you is concerning as well. I've been through this process before and I can only imagine that the reason you stay with this person is because you are still in love with the "false self" you were presented in the beginning of this relationship. In this sense you are only chasing a mythical dragon that doesn't exist, it was a trick.

Thank you HealingNSuffering
I hear what you are saying and I know that 'N's have this 'false self' and in order to validate it they look for 'N' supply. He has not been diagnosed but everything suggests that he could well be NPD 'the cycle of abuse' the belittling, name calling and rages and then the discarding and hoovering not to mention the emotional and sometimes physical abuse. But, this is not happening all the time he discusses his childhood which was without love and abusive - he does seem to have some insight and there are times when he is lovely - I suppose I just concerned that I don't know what I am dealing with - I love him and I don't want to leave but then tomorrow could be another story - I just keep asking myself maybe he just has problems - maybe I fuel the 'rages'?

This could be the case with any one not just narcs. But since you asked about narcs in particular, they differ as much as "normal" people. Some are worse then others. To most your just an object or need. And despite their selfish traits many can treat their objects better then you described here. I would not expect anyone to put up with that kind of abuse no matter what was wrong with the person. If you know for sure he is a narc, well he will mellow a little as he gets older but will never change and die a narc probably. But that could also be the case if he wasn't a narc too. I've seen some really a-hole men who mistreat their wives and children and are not narcs or sociopaths. So it's just a personality thing some times. You can try counseling, or like previously advised, get out.

Thank you so I suppose I need to concentrate on the behaviour whether he is a Narc or not. I keep forgiving it because I know he was abused and damaged in childhood, and when it blows over he is loving and attentive again.

The problem now is that I feel so confused mainly about his feelings for me!

Most Narcs are never diagnosed, they typically deny they have a problem, even if they do get diagnosed they don't want to change it. My ex-narc actually took pleasure in causing pain to others, she was also a sociopath, it took her years to open up about this kind of thing. But she used to tell me how elated it made her to rob people, she took pleasure in the suffering of others. I loved her to, I hated how she behaved sometimes, most of the time, but to keep me hooked on her she would give me bits and pieces of the "false self" in between, and tried to inflate my low-self esteem by saying nice things about me. She cheated on me many times, she admitted it a couple times, she had me so hooked I didn't want to leave her either, she was more addictive than any drug I've had. Just more harmful than any of the (many) drugs I've taken.

I think another tactic she used that kept me with her was that she would discuss her troubled childhood as well, in many ways it was almost as bad as mine, worse in some aspects. We had a lot of the same issues bubbling underneath the surface, trouble controlling our impulses and struggles with substance abuse. The worst thing you can do is blame yourself for his behavior, I did the same thing with my Narc. I would say things to myself like "if only I did or said ____ she would've have not been so hurtful to me" but these were nothing more than wishful thinking. Here's how powerfully addictive they are: 2 years after we split (it was a terrible break up, one of the worse I've ever had) she calls me up. She almost suckered me into falling back in love with her, but I was having panic attack every time she would call my phone. I was having all the same "bad gut feeling" that I got when I first met her again, like something wasn't quite right.

Sure enough, something wasn't quite right and once she could sense I had feelings for her again she dropped the truth on me: that she was living with her new BF. We continued to talk for about a month but I was careful not to fall for her again after learning what she was up to. I helped counsel her on her new relationship with her BF by practicing this foreign thing to her called honesty. So she was honest with him and he started treating her better and as far as I know they are still together. Because I haven't heard from her since, I do feel bad for her current BF though, if they are still together. Save your self the long-term psychological damage and ditch this guy. Its not going to be fun, its not going to be easy, but the short-term pain will keep the wounds that have already been inflicted on you from getting any deeper. They are really good at kicking you while you are down, then helping you back up, allowing you to recuperate then pushing you over the edge.

Thank you again and I have to admit so much of what you are telling me rings true. Mine started with a 'gut instinct' and then proceeded with all the bad behaviour abuse, rages etc. Deep down I do think he is a Narc - I find him very addictive too - I'm not sure I'd put up with anything I have experienced with him from anyone else. Something keeps me with him and although I have doubts about his fidelity - I want to believe him and I want to believe that he loves me as I do him. I just can't imagine leaving - it's going to take sometime for all this to really sink in - I continually make excuses for him - I love him

Unfortunately due to no fault of his own, he will never be able to love you as much as you love him. I think we are afraid to love others as much as we love ourselves. Once in a while when watching a movie, I some times get a feeling I'm not sure what it is, empathy or love, I don't know. I immediately kill the feeling. I will have no part of whatever that was.

But now let me ask a question. Do any of us ever know if our spouse loves us as much as we love them?

Yes that instinct was your initial cue to get out but you ignored it. The reason something felt "off" and your gut feeling was to stay out of it is because he was presenting you with the false self. Consciously they know this, and they carefully analyze everything you say to make judgements on how best to manipulate you. IndieVisible is right he could just be a butthole with anger problems, but I believe if you can relate to what I'm saying he might be a Narc. They are not that easy to spot because they rarely present you with the truth, they are masters at lying. She made me very paranoid, I was always worried about her - what was she really doing, where was she really going, who was she really hanging out with. Even if she was telling the truth I would still suspect it was a lie because she "cried wolf" so many times.

Make a deal with yourself, get some counseling and next time he even threatens to hit you - get out. Maybe you could try a family & marriage counselor. He doesn't even have to come, but a family therapist will have the best advice for you. Think about it this way, what if you get pregnant with his kid? Then you will be stuck dealing with this destructive force for the rest of your life. He could even be abusive to the children.

I think maybe I am a bit strange because I have always loved very deepley I haven't had many relationships -all long term and I still love and have very fond memories for them. I think once you have loved you always love. Love is probably my downfall because I often forget myself in doing so but essentially I believe in love.

Sorry, to answer your questions no I don't think we really know or can measure if someone loves us the same as we do them. I found that once and it was very special but sadly he died - and I lost my soul mate

I think you are right - I think he is a Narc and I should have trusted my initial gut instinct before I got in so deep. Like you I never trust where he is or where he is going even if he is telling me the truth and everything you say echo's my own experience. I had children young and they are grown up - I wont be having anymore! I love them to bits but they have their own lives. Thank you so much for your advice I do think I need to seek a therapist for myself or some councilling - he would never attend with me I would like to thank you for taking your time to post to me

You have received some top notch advice. I just want to tell you to run, not walk, away from this man. People like him suck you dry and and still want more. There are Domestic Violence Shelters just about everywhere. That might be an option for you.

I wish you the very best,

Jan

He might be able to understand on a theoretical level that he hurts you. I strongly doubt he can "feel" your pain or anyone's, no matter if he hurt them or if they got hurt anyway. Your pain is like watching a movie for him. He "knows" it's not real.

Actually there are different levels of empathy. To say every narc has zero is using too broad a brush. The correct description would be have difficulty or limited ability to feel empathy. To say they all don't care is also not entirely accurate. Narcs do care, they just care more for themselves. And in the DSM 5 borderlines now share the same "difficulties" feeling empathy as narcs. You can view a side by side comparison of the DSM4 and the new DSM5 here.

In my opinion, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he knows he's hurting you, he's doing it knowingly and continuing despite knowing this. If he isn't, he's not going to see that he is. Either way, you need to leave.

I also think you should trust your gut feeling, not to mention the reality of what you're going through. Like someone said, you could end up getting a kid out of the deal, i know because i was in a relationship where i got pregnant with my ex's kid, he was abusive both mentally and pshysically, but not until i got pregnant. I have a 22 year old son from him and had to go through all the court stuff to get custody, which i obviously got and won in the end, because we were never married he had no choice, because i got out as soon as i could. please do trust your gut as i said before and GET and STAY out and don't let this jerk push you around, it will only get worse. He hasn't seen his son in over 15 years, luckily, because i had an order of protection for him too. Please get an order of protection if you can too it will help in the long run too.Good Luck and have a nice day!!

Thoughts and feelings belong to the person doing the thinking and feeling and we cannot know about another person's "true" thoughts and feelings except by their putting them into action. If he is abusing you, he is not respecting you and you must respect yourself; you are you and all you have in a literal sense. We must respect others and treat ourselves with respect and insist that others treat us with respect also, no matter who they are or what their own issues may be; those issues are their problem, our issues are our problem. Feeling bad, sorry, empathy, whatever for someone else is about us and our feelings and we need to use our feelings to help us with our own behavior to ensure our safety, sanity, "balance"/selfhood.

Thank you for that link - I will check it out

Thank you everyone who has replied - I am new here and still finding my way - but am touched for all your advice - Thank you

Thank you IndieVisible I checked out the link and it was very interesting reading - have a lot to digest and think about

You need to get out of there.

p.s. my mother is a narc, and I don't know if she "knows" how much she hurts us--but I do know that she does not care. She hurt us pretty bad growing up, and she honestly believes that she was a good mom.

DSM 5 is more accurately represented imo, many are still going by the older DSM 4 criteria which is actually more scary imo. The key to note is it's not entirely true narcs can not ever feel or understand empathy. They can if it is related for their benefit. Where as a sociopath can not under any circumstances, they can only understand it and simulate it if they care too. Also keep in mind we are not all made from a cookie cutter and there is great variation that's possible.

in fact recent studies for antisocial personality disorders which has two sub groups, group 1 and group 2, suggests that group 2 many are capable of feeling regret and some level of empathy. Only ASPD group 1 are totally incapable of feeling any regret or empathy. NPD, ASPD2, and BPD all share difficulties with empathy but can feel it if it is directly needed to keep some one they feel they need or can benefit from.

Not really, I'd say BPD who have this difficulty are part of the 25% of BPD patients who also qualify for a DX of NPD or have some NPD traits. I would cry for a homeless person I could definitely not benefit from in any way shape or form. I used to cry for victims of school shootings, bombings etc and never had anything to gain from it what so ever. The only time I have a lack of empathy is when I get angry - empathy flies out the window. I have some difficulty with empathy, but not outside the normal range. Its not part of the criteria for BPD, as it is with NPD or ASPD. I just looked in an actual copy of the DSM-5 3 days ago and saw the criteria for BPD remains unchanged. People with Aspergers can also have difficulty showing empathy.

I believe you, as I said we are not all made from cookie cutters. There is great variation and degrees. I can only feel empathy for my immediate family, wife and children.