Do Narcissists know that they hurt you?

Yes I agree we must not put people in boxes and everyone is individual whether they have a personality disorder or not. I think my mind is too inquiring and I at least would like to know what I am dealing with! - I know it isn't all black and white but I have this need to know what he is feeling when he hurts me - when he 'rages' - He does show me love and care but it somehow seems to be when it suits him - when he is in the right mood. I find myself running around for him - doing things that he wants - he rarely if at all does this for me - unless it is something he wants to do! I just want to understand

Thorn Bird, to me the question is why are you with this person who abuses you, not what are his motivations or does he understand how hurtful he is being. You need to get out of this situation, call a women's shelter if you need help, but don't stay in this destructive relationship one minute longer.

I agree IndieVisible, I don't believe in the cookie cutter approach either. But somebody with NPD could not even feel empathy for those people, likely somebody with NPD only sees family and children as a source of narcissistic supply, or as competition for his narcissistic supply.
True, fact: most narcissists don't even have the personality disorder, just traits. The typical person who qualifies for NPD is a cult leader, a CEO, or a dictator.

If he is a narcissist, he probably feels pleasure when he hurts you, or nothing. It sounds like he is a narcissist, but I'm no expert. Not all abusers are narcissists either.

Here's where mine fooled me with the whole love and care thing: she would do this "love-bombing" technique whenever she noticed she hurt my feelings. It was a tool she used whenever I would start to distance myself from her after she hurt me.

The best advice anybody could give to somebody who is in a relationship with a narcissist: abandon them, get as far away from them as possible! And prepare for them to stalk you, harass you, character assassinate you and try anything to get you back on their hook.

My dear, what you are dealing with, as you put it, is a man who abuses you. Next time he gets physical he could kill you. You need to get out of this relationship, the sooner the better. Take it from one who has been there. Perhaps some counseling would help, but you don't have to be living with him to go to couples counseling. Leave now and protect yourself. Then you can work on figuring things out and you can go back to him if things get better. I think that by focusing on what his mental health issue is you are focusing on the wrong thing.

I am sure you are right. I should be concentrating on me and the fact that he hurts me emotionally and although the physical abuse is very infrequent and he doesn't hurt me should be enough to make me leave. But, then he will change and be loving and attentive and so interesting to be with - that I let it go always hoping there will never be a next time - But, there always is. I love him - it feels like I am addicted to him - I just feel as if I can't leave him even when things are bad I just want to make them better!

This is typical behavior of an abusive partner. And you are displaying typical feelings and behaviors of an abused partner. I cannot encourage you strongly enough to seek assistance from a battered womens shelter near you. They can help you to separate yourself from this person.

((((((( Thorn Bird ))))))))

I have been in your shoes myself and I know how it feels. I understand the excuses we make to ourselves as to why our partner has treated us badly (abused us). I know how they do this and turn around and be as sweet as pie for the next day or so until the next time they go off. I also know that this is complete control on their part and getting exactly what they think they need/want and to hell with you!

Making the decision is a very difficult thing to do and if/when you do decide to leave, you need all the support and caring from people IRL and even here from PC.

I have a list of questions for you to look over and answer. You can answer them only to yourself or to a T or here if you feel comfortable doing so. You must be truthful in your answers though in order for you to understand what is truly going on in your relationship.

 What's it like at home for you?
 What happens when you and your partner disagree or argue?
 How does your partner handle things when he doesn't get his way? What does he do?
 Are you ever scared of him? Does he threaten you?
 Does he ever prevent you from doing things you want to do?
 Does he ever follow you?
 Do you have to account to him for your time?
 Is he jealous, hard to please, irritable, demanding, and critical?
 Does he put you down, call you names, yell at you, and punish you in any way?
 Does he ever push you around or hit you?
 Does he ever make you have sex? Does he ever make you do sexual things you don't like?

Some of these questions are quite personal so it would be understood if you don't want to answer them here. It took me a long time to get out of my relationship. We had 2 children together which made things more difficult. In hindsight, I should have gotten out of the relationship much sooner than I did, but I also realize that I had to get to the bottom line and it took me time to get there.

My ex was never diagnosed NPD, but his behaviors were totally in line with the diagnosis. It was all about him. I can tell you from my experience and from seeing other experiences throughout my lifetime, anyone who abuses another, whether NPD or not, is very well schooled in how to make us feel worthless, too needy, wrong in everything we do (even if it's done the way they want us to do it, they will find something wrong), we feel small and responsible for their behavior. We may even feel we have no choices.

But, the good news is we truly are not small, we actually DO have choices and we are absolutely NOT responsible for their behavior!!!

I hope that you will take the love that you feel for him and turn it around to yourself. Love yourself enough to know that you are worthy of taking care of yourself regardless of what you are told by him. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

Please take good care of yourself!

Thank you so much that is such good advice I will answer the questions - but I almost know the result beforehand. I wish I could move on but there is something that still makes me doubt and question and how do I just stop loving him. He is not always so bad. Most of the time we have such a good relationship if it wasn't for the raging and belittle and abuse which seems to go in cycles.

I have gone through the list truthfully and the answers were as I predicted. I guess although I know the truth I am in denial I really want to hope things will get better I love him but somehow in a strange addictive way. He can be so much fun, so interesting and is so intelligent - It really is as I've said before like living with Jekyll and Hyde or on a roller coaster ride. I have never been in a relationship like this before. I don't know how to leave unless of course he discards me first! Thank you so much for your post

Just my two cents on your question: Do they know that they hurt you? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I wish I could take away your pain, but all I can do is offer emotional support.

((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

Thank you so much and I think you are right sometimes they know and sometimes they just don't and thank you for your emotional support - it really helps

That's what happens each time he discards and I think he often does this because he senses I am about to leave. Once I have gone and he has calmed down - he begins the hoovering trying to pretend that nothing has happened usually with not even an apology or sometimes he says 'I am sorry for how I am' - he will then be charming and attentive to me - once he thinks he has me hooked again!

Many people who have had troubled childhoods are good at pretending like nothing ever happened. It was the only way we could receive any kind of affection is by pretending like our abusers were not guilty. It sounds like what my ex did to me to, she was very clever, but really good at pretending to be stupid.

The fact that he says he is sorry for "how he is" shows to me that he is at least partially aware of his misdeeds. He is right about one thing, that is just how he is, he could heal, but he would have to decide to the healing. Nobody else can make that decision for him besides him, this is literally "just the way he is" and nothing can "fix" him unless he wanted it to and worked very hard at it.

He sounds manipulative, I think you might be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, or Battered Persons Syndrome. My ex would frequently point out that we had "been through so much **** together" and that "the more we went through the closer we become to each other" she was absolutely right. The trauma does bring you two closer, which is why leaving him is not so easy. You feel as if you have climbed to the top of b/s mountain for this man, you have invested so much emotional energy, time and resources into it. It will probably crush you to get rid of him. I know breaking up with my narc abuser crushed me, I was still in love with the false self but knew that the relationship was toxic.

I have though recently that I may be suffering from trauma bonding. I think that it is all part of the roller coaster - the Jekyll and Hyde. Every time things are good I cling to them and yet fearful if I say or do anything to his displeasure he will 'rage' and the 'cycle of abuse' will begin again. It is like 'walking on egg shells' and making continued efforts to please and comply for fear I will trigger the 'rage' - and so if I have Trauma Bonding - what can I do and as he has some insight is there anyway I can persuade him to go to Therapy?

Honestly I don't think you can convince him to go to therapy, without inflicting some kind of trauma on his psyche yourself, before you traumatize him (sounds bad I know) you'd have to prime him with the idea, and confront him that you think he needs therapy and why you think he needs therapy. If he did go to therapy it would most likely just be a waste of time, narcissists hate therapists and there are very few therapists who have the training credentials or the patience to deal with a narcissist. Check out this link by the co-author of the book "stop walking on eggshells" - I have BPD and people, especially those I've lived with, often say they have to walk on eggshells around me to avoid conflict. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...s-seek-therapy

Personally I think you are in a catch 22 and there is no easy way out. If you confront him about his b/s he is going to get angry and potentially could inflict more abuse on you. On the other hand, if you continue to stay with him, you will lose your sense of self, and risk getting abused anyways. If you leave him, do it from a safe distance, don't give him any opportunity to retaliate and be wary of any attempts he makes to reunite. I think the latter is your best option, since he has a history of being abusive, controlling and manipulative. Therapy is not going to change his personality, if anything, it will just make him not so sharp around the edges.

Thank you that info it is very helpful - I am still not convinced he is a total Narc - I think he is a mixture of BPD. I know all you are saying is right and for fear of repeating myself I just cannot bring myself to leave him. Maybe when he next discards I will be stronger and able not to go back when he hoovers. I nearly didn't last time and was so angry with myself when I eventually gave in. My problem is that he has a PD but is still a person and in between his rages etc. he is or at least seems a nice guy - which makes it all the harder

It is not unusual to have both. I hear you, well I wish you all the best of luck because like I said in my last post, you are in a catch 22 for sure. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. If he has borderline it shouldn't be that hard to convince him he needs therapy. Just give him a real thorough breakdown of his behavior and give him the insight into how its hurtful to you. Let him know that he's lucky you are sticking by his side through all the b/s and he should see the point is seeing a therapist.

Thank you so much for your care and continued support - and the next abusive cycle I will suggest he sees a Therapist. and just take things from there - Thank you again for all your help

Are you standing there, accepting the name calling, when he does it, or is there some consequence for doing these things?

Do you feel, this is conducive to not growing a sense of resentment within you? Can you love someone, that says these things about you, when they aren't true? Can you love someone, who says things, that show they don't revere you?

No, you don't fuel the rages; that's a sure sign, that you've grown accustomed to the abuse and choose to take the blame, where the blame lies in his behavior. That's why, it's been suggested to find your own therapist and to contact the domestic violence shelters(they can refer you to assistance)

When someone abuses us, but we are in love with the idea of the relationship, only loving their 'good side', I don't imagine you actually love his bad side, do you? You are making excuses for him, when you say, oh, but he had such a miserable childhood, poor him...what about poor you? You are getting the crud because he decided not to get a handle on it?!

Do the good times, really outweigh the bad? Are you financially unable to go it alone? Is there something about your life together, now, that is addicting?

I am really sorry to read that you lost someone close to you What do you, suppose, your soul mate, would say about this relationship, that you are in now?
It's not strange to be a loving person! Not strange at all. Doesn't make it right, for him to trample all over you, and take advantage of that fact. I haven't had many relationships, myself. And I gave lovingly to them all.

Relationships aren't meant to be all good, all the time. But, love shouldn't hurt, either...

HealingNSuffering raises a very valid point, right there. Something to seriously look into and work through...

No, for therapy to be most effective, the person has to choose to go for themselves. Sometimes, a person has to bottom out, before realizing that they need it.

Waiting until he's in rage mode, isn't the ideal time to bring it up. When things are calmer, they are more likely to hear you out. I'd expect, he'd probably say there's nothing wrong with him, and then finger point at you...

To break the cycle, it's up to you, to figure out how. In changing your own thought processes, and recognizing how and why you got here, and what you will do to stop the abuse. And if that means leaving, then at that point, you will be in a position to not become hovered nor to believe the lies and promises that spew forth through their mouths.

It's not easy. It can take years of intensive therapy, and self work to get to the point of recognizing this, about yourself. I know from experience. Living with an abusive person can be very damaging to your health, not just emotional health, but physical health too.

I think I might've missed this post. I know how it feels to lose your soul mate, perhaps you are still grieving over this previous relationship when you met your current BF? That's how I found my narc abuser as well, I was still grieving over the loss of a significant other, blaming myself for her death even though it wasn't my fault. Essentially my heart was bleeding into the sea, the smell of blood attracted this shark into my life, she drained me like a blood sucking vampire. Had me addicted to my own torment. In hindsight the scariest part about her was that I could relate to her so much, but at the same time she seemed different, she had a lot more confidence than me. The worst part about her was her constant need for affirmation, admiration, she vigilantly made me "prove" my loyalty and love for her. She would get extremely jealous and angry, giving me the silent treatment if I even talked about going somewhere with my friends, or not being able to be there for her 24/7.
No problem I agree with healingme4me that you should talk to him when he is calm, because from my own experience when I'm angry I don't understand anything from a rational perspective. Everything is perceived as a threat, even if you don't say anything, even if you just look upset, disappointed or disgusted with me it just adds fuel to my fire. When a person says something that suggests there is something wrong with me, the blame is immediately shifted back into their court. When I'm angry, I'm stressed, which makes me paranoid, often times delusional and incoherent.

[quote=HealingNSuffering;3322726] perhaps you are still grieving over this previous relationship when you met your current BF? That's how I found my narc abuser as well, I was still grieving over the loss of a significant other, blaming myself for her death even though it wasn't my fault. Essentially my heart was bleeding into the sea, the smell of blood attracted this shark into my life, she drained me like a blood sucking vampire. Had me addicted to my own torment. In hindsight the scariest part about her was that I could relate to her so much, but at the same time she seemed different, she had a lot more confidence than me. The worst part about her was her constant need for affirmation, admiration, she vigilantly made me "prove" my loyalty and love for her. She would get extremely jealous and angry, giving me the silent treatment if I even talked about going somewhere with my friends, or not being able to be there for her 24/7.

[quote]

I met my abuser, 1 week, after I lost my stepdad. And about a month, after my previous relationship had ended. It was also, within the same year, that I had an MS prognosis. I was far from the epitome of good health, physical or emotional. I was vulnerable and susceptible and trusted my friend, whom I'd been introduced, as being a 'good guy', my exh is the brother to my former friends brother in law.
Felt, well, he is older, must have his stuff together. By the end of that first week, of knowing him, I had all the ref flags I needed, (hindsight 20/20), but wasn't in a good place in my life, to say, you know what, I don't need this. Kept plugging away, believing that all I needed to do was be that loyal girlfriend and he'd get over those insecurities. Before I knew it, was planning a wedding, and the rest is history, at least for me.

I'd just moved back to be closer to my mom, and this was all a big distraction from the loss of my stepdad, to a long, drawn out illness, that spanned a decade. I was perhaps, in hindsight, in trauma, from witnessing what I did, with my stepdad's illness, on top of it all.

Figuring out, what brings you to it[the abuse], is just a small fraction of healing from it, and figuring out what to do, from here.

Thank you healingmeforme I would obviously not approach him when he is 'raging' I was thinking of the calm after the storm - But anytime is difficult because I never know how he might react and 'rage' - You are so right about it affecting you both physically and mentally - I am finding it hard to stay or to leave which I know is a contradiction but I suppose I just feel lost and insecure Thank you so much for your reply.

Thank you I was devasted losing my soul mate but have had a 'normal' relationship since then - no one will replace him though but at least I have my memories and his letters

I can appreciate, feeling stuck 'inbetween' making any decisions about your relationship.

It's easy to feel lost, as you begin your journey to understanding just what it is about the relationship that's hurting you. It's similar to coming out of the 'fog', without comprehension of what sunlight really is.

I remember, grieving for a while, long before I made any decisions.

It will be ok

Thank you so much for all your help advice and continued support - It really does mean so much to me. I know only I can make the decision but having lost my mum a few months ago I do feel vunerable and my decision making isn't the best! It is like I know what I should do but continue anyway - always hoping he will change but deep down knowing that it is very unlikely. Thank you so much for listening and replying