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Default Jun 12, 2020 at 10:01 PM
  #1
So, as mentioned before, I have an ex with whom I share a 1000% flawless and perfect in every single way child. We also are totally entiwned financially, forever. She, in my very strong opinion of fifteen years with her, has BPD. Never officially diagnosed because she has always refused to acknowledge that she may have any type of issue whatever.

Anyway, we do have ot interact for the above reasons. I treat her with the same dignity and respect I treat everyone. She cheated and lied--a lot. DId some other very desctructive things, but I never, ever remind her of any of that. I treat her very, very respectfully. I was always faithful and she has no factual basis to doubt my intentions. I support her financially, btw.

Sadly, she does this thing with me where, given any possible option of interpreting a remark of mine as "dissing" her, she will always elect that option. Eveything is an insult, or almost everything.

She has a very high IQ. I would like to get her some kind of book or something to read to help her with not taking everything like it is a personal insult. It is such a big problem for her and for us.

Any ideas are most welcome.

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Default Jun 12, 2020 at 10:44 PM
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I think it's great that you treat her in such a humane way. I'm sure it's not always easy. However, i think if you gave her a book she would just take THAT as an insult. It seems a high IQ just gets people into trouble sometimes. I think of our favorite author, David Foster Wallace and how his genius didn't do him any good (as far as longevity goes). Maybe it's better to just put your efforts into your own recovery? That might be best for her too, so you can continue to support her in your own gentle ways.
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Default Jun 12, 2020 at 11:33 PM
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I think it's great that you treat her in such a humane way. I'm sure it's not always easy. However, i think if you gave her a book she would just take THAT as an insult. It seems a high IQ just gets people into trouble sometimes. I think of our favorite author, David Foster Wallace and how his genius didn't do him any good (as far as longevity goes). Maybe it's better to just put your efforts into your own recovery? That might be best for her too, so you can continue to support her in your own gentle ways.
Ah, well, you may have a point about that.

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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 07:17 AM
  #4
My instinct had the same response as whatever2013. I have struggled with this kind of issue on smaller scales with family members and in professional settings. It can be tough. Suggesting someone needs to change typically causes them to move further from your goal.

You've stood by while she has done some truly horrible things to you and it sounds like you've kept mostly quiet. Maybe that is the issue? When she treats you poorly and you do not respond she might be wondering 'why does he not rip me apart? When will the other shoe drop?' Maybe if you openly acknowledge her behavior as poor and that you clearly see it as such but you look past it for the welfare of your daughter, she might be less on guard?

In terms of books, I wish those experiencing this kind of behavior understood projection. I think it may help you as well. In essence, she is fearful. At the same time, she is whole and complete. She does not need to be 'fixed'. If you tell her you accept her as she is, but you percieve her reactions toward you to be inaccurate and you feel she is projecting, perhaps she will seek out the info on her own.

I have empathy for the fearful. I projected some very scary stuff onto my husband when I was sick. My heart is with those who project and they have my compassion. Sometimes our subconscious is working incredibly hard for us to 'see' something we need to learn and pushing it outward is our primal way of achieving that. The same happens when we experience psychosis. It is the product of our own fears.

https://frithluton.com/articles/projection/
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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM
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My instinct had the same response as whatever2013. I have struggled with this kind of issue on smaller scales with family members and in professional settings. It can be tough. Suggesting someone needs to change typically causes them to move further from your goal.

You've stood by while she has done some truly horrible things to you and it sounds like you've kept mostly quiet. Maybe that is the issue? When she treats you poorly and you do not respond she might be wondering 'why does he not rip me apart? When will the other shoe drop?' Maybe if you openly acknowledge her behavior as poor and that you clearly see it as such but you look past it for the welfare of your daughter, she might be less on guard?

In terms of books, I wish those experiencing this kind of behavior understood projection. I think it may help you as well. In essence, she is fearful. At the same time, she is whole and complete. She does not need to be 'fixed'. If you tell her you accept her as she is, but you percieve her reactions toward you to be inaccurate and you feel she is projecting, perhaps she will seek out the info on her own.

I have empathy for the fearful. I projected some very scary stuff onto my husband when I was sick. My heart is with those who project and they have my compassion. Sometimes our subconscious is working incredibly hard for us to 'see' something we need to learn and pushing it outward is our primal way of achieving that. The same happens when we experience psychosis. It is the product of our own fears.

https://frithluton.com/articles/projection/
Yeah, thanks fern. Sadly, her mother is dying right now and I just don't think that me telling her I know she had an affair with the cop who terrorized me for two years and tried to kill me is likely to be met wiht encouraging results. But maybe I will feel differently tomorrow.

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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 11:09 AM
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Yeah, thanks fern. Sadly, her mother is dying right now and I just don't think that me telling her I know she had an affair with the cop who terrorized me for two years and tried to kill me is likely to be met wiht encouraging results. But maybe I will feel differently tomorrow.
Yeah, probably not. I'm sorry to hear about her mother. That must be difficult. Sorry you have been her punching bag.

I feel like we exchange information even when we don't speak it openly. I experience that a lot in group settings. We are all clarsentient to one degree or another. She probably knows you know. That perhaps triggers her even more. That's not on you though. You have every right to handle a betrayal like that however you see fit.

You can though just say you do not resonate with her accusations of you in the moment when she projects onto you. Saving the bigger issue for another time or maybe never ever seems wise. You can process that internally without her being a part of it. Your ability to move on is only dependent on her if you believe it is.

You're a really good guy. I hope one day she learns to value you instead of pushing on you like she does.
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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 12:24 PM
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Yeah, probably not. I'm sorry to hear about her mother. That must be difficult. Sorry you have been her punching bag.

I feel like we exchange information even when we don't speak it openly. I experience that a lot in group settings. We are all clarsentient to one degree or another. She probably knows you know. That perhaps triggers her even more. That's not on you though. You have every right to handle a betrayal like that however you see fit.

You can though just say you do not resonate with her accusations of you in the moment when she projects onto you. Saving the bigger issue for another time or maybe never ever seems wise. You can process that internally without her being a part of it. Your ability to move on is only dependent on her if you believe it is.

You're a really good guy. I hope one day she learns to value you instead of pushing on you like she does.
Thank you, fern. Yeah, I think what has happened for her is that she has fallen back on her primary coping skill for tragedy/deep pain/personal terror, which is, dissociation. So, for her, this whole experience is parked away in a corner of her brain and walled off by the kind of denial of reality that most people can only dream of. If it doesn't exist in her consciousness, then, she doesn't have to address any of it and her pain is lessened. Kind of. Maybe a little. It sort of works, for a little while, until it gets triggered again, at which time, she must gather it all up and re-park it away in that same corner once more and resume pretending like it never happened.

It took me awhile to learn all this, but once I did, it seemed fairly plain that attempting to engage with her on any of this was never going to work for me, because in her conscious brain, none of it ever happened. It does not exist. I feel great empathy and compassion for her. It must be very difficult to try to live this way.

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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 12:38 PM
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Thank you, fern. Yeah, I think what has happened for her is that she has fallen back on her primary coping skill for tragedy/deep pain/personal terror, which is, dissociation. So, for her, this whole experience is parked away in a corner of her brain and walled off by the kind of denial of reality that most people can only dream of. If it doesn't exist in her consciousness, then, she doesn't have to address any of it and her pain is lessened. Kind of. Maybe a little. It sort of works, for a little while, until it gets triggered again, at which time, she must gather it all up and re-park it away in that same corner once more and resume pretending like it never happened.

It took me awhile to learn all this, but once I did, it seemed fairly plain that attempting to engage with her on any of this was never going to work for me, because in her conscious brain, none of it ever happened. It does not exist. I feel great empathy and compassion for her. It must be very difficult to try to live this way.
Yes, difficult indeed. You are wise and kind to realize she is inflicting such great pain on herself and choosing not to make it worse. The conscious mind can only run for so long... I learned that one the very hard way.
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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 06:37 PM
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Yes, difficult indeed. You are wise and kind to realize she is inflicting such great pain on herself and choosing not to make it worse. The conscious mind can only run for so long... I learned that one the very hard way.
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Default Jun 13, 2020 at 06:56 PM
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Default Jun 14, 2020 at 08:04 AM
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I have no reading materials to suggest either, for some of the same reasons fern cited. Also, other than what I learned in my Abnormal Psychology class, in the DSM, online, and brief stories on this forum (and from a friend), I'm far from an expert on Borderline PD. I think it is true that handing her a book about it could anger her, but if she ever stumbled upon one, I would think a memoir could be a good first.

I suspect that my sister's husband may have BPD. He has exhibited many of the classic symptoms. But he's slightly further removed from me than your ex is from you. My main concern about my b-i-l has been the effects of his behavior on my sister and nephews. There have been serious ones. Though your ex may be different than my b-i-l in various ways, I still think that you should be most concerned about your child right now. Your ex's behavior as an effect on them.
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Default Jun 14, 2020 at 12:40 PM
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I have no reading materials to suggest either, for some of the same reasons fern cited. Also, other than what I learned in my Abnormal Psychology class, in the DSM, online, and brief stories on this forum (and from a friend), I'm far from an expert on Borderline PD. I think it is true that handing her a book about it could anger her, but if she ever stumbled upon one, I would think a memoir could be a good first.

I suspect that my sister's husband may have BPD. He has exhibited many of the classic symptoms. But he's slightly further removed from me than your ex is from you. My main concern about my b-i-l has been the effects of his behavior on my sister and nephews. There have been serious ones. Though your ex may be different than my b-i-l in various ways, I still think that you should be most concerned about your child right now. Your ex's behavior as an effect on them.
So sorry about your BIL. Yeah, what worries me most is tht my daughter is quite bright and that she will pick up on her mom's tendency to very freely play fast and loose with the truth and will think that is the right approach in life. Very worried about this. I am going to have to have a talk with her at some point about this on the DL, but not yet sure how to pull that off. She is 12, very smart, very sweet and empathetic, just constitutionally. She does not have at this point any of the bpd leanings that one might see in an incipient case. Hopefully, she will be okay.

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