stuff

i've just started going to a PD support group which is run out of my local hospital but which is user led. so far, so helpful. i've been to a couple of sessions and it's nice to talk to people about how i feel who are equals, rather than Tdoc or Pdoc and who seem to understand things.

i'm not diagnosed PD, but bipolar, and i suspect i may have schizoid PD but i'm not really sure.

my Tdoc has been really helpful as well but since i've opened up to her more about the kinds of things that have really been bothering me since i was a youngster, the worse many of them are getting.

the loner-ism which i feel may be the major sign of schizoid is getting more pronounced. i used to sometimes concede and go out with my friends for dinner or whatever but now i even dread them asking. i would choose to stay in, home alone with the cats, every single time. in fact, even my housemates don't bother asking me any more if i'd like to go out. they know i won't. most of my mates i never see anyway, they live a long way away, which is just right for me. i'm finding i hate even seeing my housemates in the kitchen while i'm in there long enough to make tea. i can't even share a room with them.

the other thing that's escalating rapidly is my problem with physical people. my Tdoc calls it a phobia but i don't think it is, although similar. this is, again, something that's bothered me since i can remember, but i never told a soul because i realised how weird it seemed. then i told my tdoc and got the nerve to tell a few other people, and it's like i've opened pandora's box, it's getting worse and worse. basically, if i see a physical human body that's not covered i feel internally sick, violated, angry, upset, even if it's no where near me. if a man wears shorts, or a sleeveless top or open neck shirt, i feel awful, or if they have a beard. if people kiss near me i just can't stand it. even on TV, i have to change channel, even in the cinema, i'll have my hands over my ears and my eyes tightly shut. i've always been a bit like this, but i've tended to suppress it around people because i know it seems a bit odd, but now the cat is well and truly out of the bag. it's horrible.

the primary reason i stay in alone is that i prefer my own company to anyone else's, and that i like my own space, and no one infringeing on it. but i'm finding it hard to go out where people display their physicality. i'm glad it's almost winter because more people are covered.

anyway, i think that's all.

That sounds like a pretty rough situation to deal with. I myself have come to the conclusion that my desire to be alone isn't really healthy simply because I'm not doing it for the sake of being alone, but because I have a disorted perception of people, places, things. Distorted reality.

I'm willing to bet that you realize the things that go through your mind are irrational. If you don't take control of your mind you will spiral out into obscurity. You have the power to reject or accept your own perceptions. If you know something running through your mind is strange and unhealthy do something about it. Take control.

This is how I'm healing myself, and its working. I'm taking control of my mind. I'm not going to allow it to destroy the quality of my life. I'm not making any excuses for myself because I know that I'm totally able of having a healthy and happy life. So can you. I think that even some schizophrenics could have more control over themselves. I don't feel sorry for all of them. Some are just playing an eloborate game and being very childish.

I found that "retreating" doesn't work too well for me because you can only pull in so far and the complications with pulling in and making the "space" smaller don't give much room to maneuver :-) So I finally decided to work my way out and give myself more space, work on my fears and things I didn't like in the outside world so I could make plenty of space around me. 30 years ago I use to think of myself as being in a cities with "levels" and walls around each level and I'd pull back a level when the walls of the previous one were breached. I got inside my head, the "center" and then, where was there to go? So I started clearing out the city and wandering outside my walls to the plain surrounding the city. I began to understand that I have really good defenses and can keep myself "safe" can raise the drawbridge, drop the portcullis and cue the alligators in the moat and men with hot oil on the ramparts before the other person or situation I don't like or am afraid of can blink so I started "staying" longer and longer before deciding I couldn't stand something and/or it was too dangerous. Eventually I could go in and out at my pleasure without feeling bad things were going to happen.

You have to be able to let people "in" and go "out" of yourself. I decided when I started therapy that the one rule/image I had was that I was a minesweep or ice breaker who had to keep the "shipping" lanes open. I had to "talk" to my therapist no matter how scared I felt and had to let her "in" to what I was thinking and feeling no matter how scary that was. I had to let her in and I had to go out, the "fetal" position wasn't allowed no matter what/no matter the pain. I had to keep communicating.

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dtcoyle said:
I'm willing to bet that you realize the things that go through your mind are irrational. If you don't take control of your mind you will spiral out into obscurity. You have the power to reject or accept your own perceptions. If you know something running through your mind is strange and unhealthy do something about it. Take control.

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yeah, of course i realise they're irrational. the thing is, it's weird that you say to take control, because that's what i've been doing my whole life. i felt these things as a small child as well, as a teenager, basically ever since i can remember, and all i've ever done is control them. i've suppressed them, sat on them, not shown them, to the point where even my best friends in the world have no idea how i really feel most of the time. it's like, now i've admitted to feeling these things, they won't stop, they get more and more intense, like i've opened a lid on them.

the thing is, the only way i know to control them, is to suppress them, as i have been doing, and letting them gnaw away inside me to a point where i feel awful most of the time: i don't want to do that anymore. i don't want to be lying to people that i feel fine but inwardly wanting to kill them. so i must continue: my Tdoc is really good with stuff like this and is helping me to try to understand WHY and HOW i ended up feeling this way, which is really good. i must just keep on swimming, i think, and ultimately, i hope these things will resolve themselves and be either something i can accept and put up with or be something i can just shrug off.

as for the loner tendencies: these things are not entirely related. i mean, the fact that my housemates are quite physical beings does make it hard for me, but it's my own house, so i have areas i can be alone that they can't go in, and i know that ultimately i can kick them out if i have to.

the thing about not wanting to go out with friends or be sociable EVER is not really related to the physical hatred of people being overtly physical. it's just that i can't be bothered to pretend to get along with people, people bore me, they make me feel i'd rather be in bed or reading or something - it's categorically not social phobia: i have no issues with self confidence, or with talking to people in social situations; it's more a total lack of interest in people, in what htey have to say or do, in what they think is good or bad. i just don't really care. i'd rather be in with me.

Perna- Your mental imagry is interesting. I've never heard anyone describe their issues like that.

Dogtanian- I understand how you feel about people. I've had alot of the same thoughts. But I've changed my thinking because its destructive. People are primarily social critters. We have societies. It's very hard to function without other people. You don't have to become a socialite, but I think you should think deeper about your views of others. For some reason it seems like your negative feelings about others is coming from something else. For myself it was issues with myself (amongst other things) projected onto others.

If you were to tell someone who has no experience with personality disorders, about your thoughts, they would probably think you were suffering from a case of A-holitis. They would probably think you feel as though you are superior to others.

If you really just like being alone and don't suffer from narcissim, false grandiosity, insecurity, hatred...etc, then so be it I guess. Thats the issue. Whether or not you really understand your own thinking. Analyse the hell out of you thoughts and be totally honest with yourself.

i have been analysing it for ages! i don't wish to sound arrogant but i don't think i have A holitis. i do see your point tho, and the reason i'm questioning whether it may be a PD is because these feelings do affect a lot of areas in my life and even i can see they're skewed at best.

i actually have quite a lot of friends: the difference is i don't really see them. my very best friend lives 100 miles away so we talk on the phone quite a lot but i only see her maybe twice a year, and that's kind of how i like it. i am the same with other friends, i can chat with them on email, msn, text message, even the phone, but that doesn't mean i want to physically see them. almost all my friends live some distance away.

i don't think i feel superior to them, they're my mates, we get along, however, i do think i feel it sometimes with strangers; and i think this could related to the physical thing: i just feel totally apart from people, and if they come near me i feel this "get AWAY from me, don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't look at me" kind of thing going on.

if i put myself in a situation where i know i'll be seeing people and interacting, i'm ok, but in things like public transport it's a total nightmare.

there is one thing, which is that i definitely don't want to make more friends. my friends know me, at least to an extent, they've stuck by me through a hell of a lot, and i them, for a long time, and i'm comfortable with them. but i don't like having to make the effort to talk to new people: it's not social shyness, i can talk to them all evening if i have to, but then i want to go away from them, and never see them again. it's all quite detached.

i know that you say that humans are social creatures, and to an extent i think that's true, but then, on some level at least, i do socialise: i'm not antisocial, i just feel it. however, i don't feel any emotional attachment to people: even my friends.

with my family there is just zero connection, full stop, really. with my friends it's a bit more than that, i mean, i chose to be friends with them, i opened myself up to that experience, and they did likewise so there is a mutual trust, or respect or liking or whatever, but i still don't feel emotional ties.

i just don't seem to feel the emotions that "normal" people feel: for instance, when i was told my grandparents had died, i was very much like "oh" and it just kind of passed me by. the rest of the family was quite upset, and i felt a bit bad about it because it was like i didn't care. and it wasn't that i didn't want to care, it was just that i didn't feel anything in me like caring. it sounds callous, but when someone tells me someone's died, i just don't see what the fuss is about. and i kind of feel that's wrong. in fact, i don't *feel* it but as a relatively intelligent being, i can see that it's not the norm and also that it can be seen as offensive to not register anything on occasions like death/birth/marriage etc.

i hope i don't sound too Aholitis, i don't wish to be an Ahole, but i do acknowledge that there are elements of my reactions and relations with others that are seriously off balance and i think i need to work out why i have these reactions and how to work through them. i don't really have insecurity about my "being" if that makes sense, i do about things in my early life that all seem to be quite linked in with this whole thing, and quite a bit of anger too, although hatred would be going too far. i definitely don't think i have grandiosity or narcissism, but like i said, something ain't right....

Reading your post is a trip. I swear I could be reading a mind probe print out. I understand (I'm pretty sure) what you mean on every point.

I've always feared a death in the family, because I'm also sort of calloused emotionally. I hate to think what people might think if it seems that I'm not moved by tragedy. I don't know if this is just a result of an abnormal life, or if there is also something wrong with me in this aspect. I havn't spent much time thinking about it... but I'm going to. Initially, without thinking much, I tell myself that it is wrong. In the past I have felt as though I'm dead inside. Unable to feel anything but depression, anxiety, and fear. It's a slow and grueling process. I would give anything to cry. I havn't since... I can't remember when exactly. I do remember that I was extreemly angry... thats the only reason I cried. But... for all I know I might cry for days on end if I were confronted by a death of someone I TRULEY care for, such as my parents or sisters.

I also know how you feel about people. Its very hard to explain it to someone who has never experienced it. (and I don't believe you are an a-hole by the way) It's a strange feeling... it's almost as if you are physcially repelled by the presence of others. You just don't want to talk or interact with them in any way. That's the thing that really needs questioning. Why is it and is the reason an okay thing. My difficulty with interacting with people has pretty much been snuffed out. I havn't really thought much about how I made the change. But basically I just started looking at everyone else more closely. Looking at the things that make them interesting, looking for things that others might have in common with me, forgiving cruel/ignorant people for the way they treat me. Its getting to the point now where I'm excited by the idea of meeting people. My fear and misconceptions are fading away.

Family? Pretty much a 0 connection here as well. I'm much different than my relatives, we don't really have any common link besides blood. My family has always been very volitale, we don't mix well. There was a fight everytime the family got together and started drinking back in the day. We pretty much keep our distance these days. And it's fine.

I'm nobody to judge anyone else. If this is just who you are then I'm happy for you. I just don't like to see people suffering... especially when it's from something that can be over come.

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My difficulty with interacting with people has pretty much been snuffed out. I havn't really thought much about how I made the change. But basically I just started looking at everyone else more closely. Looking at the things that make them interesting, looking for things that others might have in common with me, forgiving cruel/ignorant people for the way they treat me. Its getting to the point now where I'm excited by the idea of meeting people. My fear and misconceptions are fading away.

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ah, i'm the opposite to that. when i was growing up i was painfully aware that my lack of connections emotionally and susceptability to depression marked me out so i did try, and i have been through manic phases (am bipolar) where i've been out in clubs every night and so on. however, i've always secretly harboured this very cynical outlook on people: i see them as having ulterior motives, i rarely trust people. and this is everyone. it's been suppressed for so long and now i've fessed up it's getting worse and worse, as i've got older my mistrust of people generally has deepened. and this is where the problem is: i feel it's worsening but i don't know how to stop it.

what you said about not being moved by tragedy, well, i am, but not when it's people i know. i get quite upset about stuff like darfur, soviet oppression, nazism, bigotry, rwanda, humanitarian crises and so on: if the subject of the tragedy is removed from me, and totally separate from my life, i get moved. if it's someone in my life i find it hard to even generate empathy a lot of the time. they'll say someone's been injured or whatever and i think "why the fuss?".

i don't know whether the reasons that the Tdoc and i think are likely to have caused these reactions really justify it, i'm just not sure. maybe they do, maybe not, but i need ot get a handle on this and stop it getting on top of me.

I understand. I used to be extreemly paranoid about people. I really felt that "behind every smile hides a bold faced lie", and that "people=*****". It's such a toxic feeling. I don't let it bother me anymore... because its pointless. Even if a negative perception is correct about a person. If you are quite sure they have bad intentions then all you can do is steer yourself away from harms way. I've found that most people are harmless... even if they are a-holes. They only have power over you if you allow it. Sort of like negativity. It's only an emotion that arises from the mind. It's not a tangible thing. You can control it. You are an intelligent person. You can do what you want! It's difficult but do-able! I'm 1000% happier nowadays. It all began when I decided to take control of my mind. So many of the things plauging me before were completely delusional and irrational. I havn't just changed my reality, I've corrected my perception. I'm still working on it, and probably will for the rest of my life. But thats fine, I want to live a healthy life, and I'm going to.