[here today]

I was diagnosed with PDNOS 6 years ago so I don’t have a specific forum to post this to.

I feel awful. Have been for about 10 days. Didn’t know exactly what it was but I saw my T today and told her about a movie that had really upset me, about a young man whose life was going nowhere, and after I did she said “You betrayed yourself.”

That's the upshot of my appointment. I betrayed my self in order to keep my family.

I betrayed me. It’s not about my parents and what they did or didn’t do, it’s about me. And I made choices when I was 3, 4, 5, 7 years old, etc. – because of the dysfunctional dynamics and imperfect people in my family – but I wanted them, my family, anyway and I made choices that betrayed me.

In another sense “I didn’t have a choice” because I needed them, and I loved them. Didn’t want to be without them.

But in betraying me – I became something I wasn’t and codependent, looking to others to define me. Somewhere back then I “knew” it was wrong. The 3, 4, 5, 7 year old kid knew those things were “wrong” – not as externally defined but as internally defined. But that didn’t count. Well, it did and it didn’t and I went with the external definition. Because it was safer, expedient, the thing to do at the time.

Somewhere inside of me the 3, 4, 5, 7 year old “knew” it wasn’t the thing to do in the long run, but I hadn’t had a long run, yet. And it didn’t seem, I guess, that I was likely to have a “long run” if I didn’t behave “right”, as I was expected to. So I ended up thinking and somehow feeling like I was being “good” by being a good girl. That’s what people said. Except that it wasn’t my genuine feeling, I had to stuff that way far away.

Six years of therapy with a decent therapist. Fifty-two years of therapy, on and off. Seems like it had to come “up” from the deepest bowels before the “central processing unit” of my mind could deal with it. It’s like, once the decisions were made, at 3, 4, 5, 7, they went into long-term storage.

Can anyone else relate to this? I know that people who don’t have personality disorders look at us and don’t get it. Once the stuff got habitual I really didn’t have much of a choice any more.

[leomama]

I had a nonspecific PD too however I don't think young children are capable of making choices.

[here today]

Well, today it feels kind of like it was a choice. Maybe it's because my (feeling) choice system still hasn't grown up? I can still make rational choices (the "right" things, now, as my rationality decides it) and still "make" myself do them by beating myself up, which is the way I learned to do things I didn't want to as a child. But my feeling/wanting system makes "choices", too, and that is what has been sort of missing -- so maybe it's been more of my dissociation issues than the personality ones. I know dissociation wasn't a choice, at least to begin with. Thanks.

I like your signature quote -- ironically it's kind of what I'm talking about. Would you like to share some more about what it means to you?

[leomama]

What does my signature say? I'm on my phone right now.

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[TishaBuv]

Default Re: Betrayed
What does my signature say? I'm on my phone right now.
__________________
“The truth is, unless you let go, unless you forgive yourself, unless you forgive the situation, unless you realize that the situation is over, you cannot move forward.”

Steve Maraboli

[TishaBuv]

You can move forward, but sometimes the heart never fully heals.

[leomama]

I'm thinking about how my peers were successful after high school and I suffered . I had disordered parents. I had a therapist that said I am not responsible for what happened to me as a minor. I believe that's true.

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[here today]

What I especially liked about the quote is the “forgive yourself” and "forgive the situation". In order to do better now, I feel like I need to know what I did “wrong” even if it was when I was 3, 4, 5, or 7, didn’t know any better and did the best I could when my parents were emotionally absent – overinvolved/overwhelmed with their own stressors.

Thanks for responding, guys. I feel like maybe the way I understand choice and responsibility is different from “normal”, but again maybe that’s the dissociation issue rather than the personality disorder per se, though for me I think the trauma and dissociation brought on the development of a personality disorder.

[Open Eyes]

Are you ok with "you betrayed yourself"? I can't see myself (if I were a therapist) ever saying that to a patient. A child 3, 4, 5 and 7 really doesn't have the capacity to understand that. I would never want someone to look back and think they are to blame for anything they did to survive in a dysfunctional home. I think it's very important to understand the brain in child development and realize that how you think now is very different then your ability to think and perceive at those very young ages.

[leomama]

Yeah I got a 2 year college degree in CDEV. We aren't responsible for what happened to us as children.

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[here today]

I think she was reflecting back what I was feeling but not saying directly. Empathetically putting words to it. Because that IS how I feel and I know right now that it is just a feeling but I guess I still need to feel it to let it go. That's what I was meaning about dredging this stuff up. Stuff maybe I felt as an over-responsible kid and then stuffed it. So if I forgive me and forgive the situation and then it's all in the past, then maybe I can move on.

[Open Eyes]

"my parents were emotionally absent" quote here_today

A child that is 3,4,5,6,7 and even older doesn't understand very much about "emotions".
A child that experiences "fear" for example, doesn't understand "why" they feel this way and the fear they feel is not only confusing but can make them even more afraid. If a parent is "emotionally absent" at this time to help their child slowly understand their emotions, often the child will try to find their own ways to "avoid" having these feelings.
In other words, "dissociate" from themselves emotionally = avoid feeling because a child just doesn't know what to do with these emotions and that it's ok to feel them and slowly understand how it's ok to feel sad, it's ok to feel afraid, it's ok to be angry and when these emotions come up they learn "why" that happens.

Also, if a child grows up in an environment where their parents are emotionally negative towards each other around that child, the child has no idea why and quite frankly it upsets the child. So what that child tries to look for is what happens that makes it stop.
That child doesn't know if whatever "stops" the outburst is right or not, only that something stops it. It could be anything, even if Mom, stomps off and shuts herself in a room, or leaves or throws things, or gives in to the bad behavior.

Let me give you an example of how much a child can "imprint". I taught very young children how to ride and often started at age 4 and 5. One of my students who was around 5 or 6 was a bit of an unusual challenge. I would work with her and every few minutes she would ask to "rest". This child would say, "I am sorry, I am tired, I need to rest a minute". I was not asking this child to do so much that she should be tired this way and I have taught so many children and "none" of them ever challenged me this way. I really had a challenge getting her to resist these "tired breaks".

Well, come to find out that a significant amount of time at a very impressionable age, her mother fought breat cancer and went through cemo, and she most likely kept telling that child, "I am tired, let me rest a bit, and then we can do some more". Without knowing it, that mother imprinted that child with that habit. This mother kept telling me, well, she is not very athletic so I don't know if she will stick with this. Well, this child had NO PROBLEM being athetic, it was not anything physical at all, instead it was how she was psychologically imprinted.

I don't particularly care for "forgive yourself" tbh, because a child imprints so much, more than they realize, more than a parent realizes. Maybe, what is better is "understand self better" and let go of any guilt you may have because all you did is try to figure out how to fit into your environment, because that is really all children really do and they are so very impressionable.

As a therapist, one of the things I would tell a patient to do in their own private time is go to the library and pick out children's story books that are "age" appropriate for these early years and read to that "child within". That is one thing that can help that inner child get a chance to learn what emotions are and how to feel them and even that it's ok to feel them. I think it will help to develop a relationship with that inner child better, just as it does when a mother reads to her child as that benefits not only the child, but the parent as well.

Some ideas to ponder.

((Hugs))
OE

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by here today

I think she was reflecting back what I was feeling but not saying directly. Empathetically putting words to it. Because that IS how I feel and I know right now that it is just a feeling but I guess I still need to feel it to let it go. That's what I was meaning about dredging this stuff up. Stuff maybe I felt as an over-responsible kid and then stuffed it. So if I forgive me and forgive the situation and then it's all in the past, then maybe I can move on.

Ok, yes, I see, it IS important to talk about how you "feel". I do like to see if at the same time that inner child can be helped to "heal" too. It reduces "triggers" substancially because you "feel" and also learn to "self sooth" too.

[here today]

My inner child had been squshed down to nothing. Been working with this T for 6 years, so she knows that. I described what/how I was feeling by describing the movie and relating it to some things in my own life, and I didn't know what I was feeling, just that I had been feeling yucky for 10 days or so, so that's why she tried to put what I was feeling into words, I think. So then I still have to "be" that way for awhile until the feeling dissipates -- I've gone through this before with some other things. But I really wanted to share this with some other people in the world, and felt safe in this forum, and so I did. The sharing with others is kind of healing for me, if that makes sense? So many, many thanks to you all who responded.

[Atypical_Disaster]

I want to write a real reply to this and I will when I am on a computer. But yeah I read this anyways and wanted you to know that.

[Atypical_Disaster]

While looking at your choices is a healthy thing I would encourage you to try not and think too black and white about it. Yes, you had choices as a child, but you were still a child. A child cannot make adult decisions. You're really being too hard on yourself here.

I think many people become something they're not as a result of family dysfunction.

As far as relating to any of this... I can in a way though my personality dysfunction is different than yours as you well know by now. There are things I do, think, and so on that aren't me... But an old script I'm playing out from growing up that I have yet to resolve. My environment did certainly damage me and I would be a fool to deny that fact.

My inbox is always open to you if you want to discuss anything more privately.

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