Any 2nd Generation Survivor's Here

I do not talk about this much but was wondering if there were any 2nd generation survivors of the Shoah here to talk to? Thanks!

the only stupid question is the one not asked--okay, i give up- what is "the Shoah"?
so i'm stupid-okay?

Sorry... Shoah is The Holocaust. 2nd generation...the children of the survivors. PTSD touched us even though we were not there. Having trouble staying grounded.

NuckingFutz,

Although I am not I have a couple friend who are and she definately is affected. She has her Master's in Counselling Psych so I expect part of obtaining that degree was to also help herself and then others in the same situation.

I hope you will find more people to share and be comforted by in the days to come. In the meantime gentle hugs.

My Dad served in WW2 and I know he had issues.

Hunny

These days I received an email from my friends and I sent it further about a German woman who saved some (I think even one and it's important) children during the war - if interested I could send you personal the email. She was proposed but didn't received Nobel prize for Peace and now she died.

I have many Jewish friends - some in Israeli, U.S., etc - we were together in high-school and still talk because somehow they are the closest friends. When I asked how they find time I get this: " to save a man means to save a world"

Still, sometimes I am telling them that Israeli behave like a PTSD affected nation (hypervigilance) ... like other nations or populations that encountered genocide.

I always wonder if it deserves to live, while being tortured by memories, no matter they made us a great service surviving and teaching us what happened and to do not repeat the history. Unfortunately I think that few parents really show books and read and talk with children about (I do!) and "why?", "how was possible" and the effects... so no wonder here, On the North American continent, Frederick Nietzsche is celebrated for "What didn't kill you make you stronger" adopted by Hitler as a doctrine in Mein Kampf! Tell that to a Holocaust's survivor or the people close to each who suffered for them.

I am against bullying as I have read so much about wars and effects... but I wonder how is to be a Shoah?

Where you abused by the one who had PTSD how people around believe? (sincerely I can't imagine that!)

Could you write what means to be a Shoah?

I am second generation actually. My grandfather's town had 2,500 Jewish men, women and children. Then the Einstatzgrouppen came and changed the count to zero. My grandfather was sent away 2 weeks prior. He was sent to a farm. He was young, small and gentle. He ran messages outside from a work camp to the resistance with lots of help from resistance fighters. His mother use to dress up as a boy so the soldiers would not assault her. What they learned was to do what you can to survive. This was where they learned to be quiet or die, hide or die, save your rations and eat small meals. Be afraid of dogs. So the war ended. My grandfather met my grandmother who actually survived a work camp. They met in a center to be united in marriage after the war. The most important goal was to repopulate the Jewish people. They could not return home as there was no more home. They came to America and had 2 kids. These children were raised with the parenting skills their parents had (this is where the PTSD comes in). NEXT POST

Most marriages were not based on love. That is the first problem. My mom learned (and she will tell me to this day "whats love got to do with it") when it comes to love in marriage. Sick stuff I tell you. My mother was treated like a house maid. No love there. She grew up poor but tight knit community. I guess my mom wanted to get away from small Jewish communities. She went to college, acted like a snob and I think she resented being Jewish on one hand and acts like the last Holocaust survivor. Taught me "people will be nice to your face and turn around and call you a dirty Jew". Maybe she believes this because her house is immaculate and she is usually chasing invisible dirt. When a serious religious ceremony is about to take place, it is "too Jewish". Go figure! If it is a Jewish social occasion, hey, she's right there with the best dress, silver candle sticks. She hates any kind of open flame because my grand mother use to tell her how important fire was to cook and keep warm. CONTINUED

This too was something she hated. My mom lacked a lot of basic parenting skills. It has leaked through the family. My grandfather, he needed love and found it with a woman at work. Good for him. My grandmother found love through her grandchildren. Basically, they told their children marry Jewish and propegate the faith. As much as my mom tried to run from the past, she unwittingly recreated what she ran from. My family would populate a small villiage. Many of my nephews and neices are quite observant when it comes to the Jewish faith. So I hear "that is too Jewish" phrase. All my brothers and sisters work hard to put love back in the family (except for my brother who justs puts money back into his. I left out the nightmares, zoned out looks, the anxiety meeting new people and the graphic part of my history. The point was how it affected me. Mom taught me not to trust (even her). Now that I am adult, she wants me to trust her (no way, she got it right the first time. She is not worthy of my trust). CONTINUED

They say "never again, never forget". Also, "those who forget the past are condemed to repeat it". I agree with the second quote. My mom recreated the past she ran from. As far as the first quote, not forgetting tie past wasn't the answer, that just reinforced PTSD. One can never just not forget. You have to do something...like tell and tell somemore. Also help eachother heal. If we don't, we will be faced with people like Pol Pot and his killing fields, Unit 741 in Japan, Darfur, Saddam Hussein, Stalin and his Gulags, Abu Gahrab, Guantanimo Bay, and one other place that is so inportant but cannot think of because my mind is blanking out. I think the message of the Holocaust entirely. Ask yourselves, what is the one thing that God can't do that only man can? The answer is simple but the task is a constant struggle. The answer is... All creatures must find a way to get along.

(((((((((((((((NuckingFutz))))))))))))

Thank you for reading this. I was not in the Holocaust, but still as a human, Jew and someone who has a mental illness, the task now falls to us. To remember, to study and to learn. And then pass the message on to remember, to learn and most importantly to tell. What is my task here? To tell what happened to all those people long ago and pass the message on. It is a little closer to us here than some of us might know these are the people to whom I am speaking. What happened to the mentally ill? I will tell because they do not seem to have a voice when it comes to this dark period of human history. POSSIBLE TRIGGER FOR THE ULTHMATE ABUSE. So the mentally ill came to the attention of the Nazi killing machine. Being efficient, the Nazi's figured that they could not use the mentally ill for their purposes or any purpose at all. Yet they still had to be housed, clothed, cared for. Caring for them costs money. Now if there were no mentally ill people, that money could be used for the war effort. CONTINUED

These people were now called "life unworthy of life". This made it more "acceptable for the T-4 Nazi program to be accepted. The T-4 program turned asylum shower rooms into gas chambers, vans into mobile death machines, and doctors into murderers. The T-4 program stopped as word leaked out, but the killing never stopped. They stopped using gas and just injected cyanide directly into their hearts. Not many speak for them, but I will. Thanks for reading.

My dad fought in the second world war, he was not Jewish however he wished he was .....

He went to Israel during the war and returned many times after the war. He cried when telling some of his stories. He was a man who did not cry but he cried none the less.

I grew up in east London where many many Jews came to reside. There was a museum as school children we was taken to just off a st called Whitechappel st by the London Hospitial. It was a very sombre visit, even as children we knew/was told what had gone on. Nothing was held back.

For this I am thankful.

Thank you Nutz please continue.

I am glad someone read this. I am glad you responded. I was just told that the help I offer on here is bs when I was in chat! Was oh so close...damn, I never cry, and hear I am crying. When the anniversary of the Holocaust comes up, I am going to do everything I can to give a voice to those mentally ill people who never had a voice. At least those ghosts won't tell me my attempts to help people are bs. WTF?! Is that like why chat seems like a different world?

I am interested of more. could you write together or record them or it's still hard for you?

Chat can be a different world, I rather like it however there are some very rude people who behind their screens and just type some really rude stuff.

I wouldn't let it get to you ! I know its hard but grow a thicker skin.

I value what you have to say in fact on here I find you one of the funniest ones lmao....

I love your off the cuff remarks they are really cool.

Keep posting keep going into chat don't let some rude person (which they are) rule your life.

Thanks! Someone caught me with my boxer shorts in a wad and helped me out to see the situation for what it was. I feel peaceful now. Thanks for catching that. And again thanks for reading this. It is very healing to write this out. Believe it or not, 95% of my posts and responses are posted on a cell phone. That includes this thread. So my stop gaps are two fold...one being I run out of room and the second it gives both me and you a break to process this heavy stuff. So now I will break hear and share more below. CONTINUES BELOW

So can you imagine. You have your mental illnesses. But you say, if I had the mental illness I do now but I live in Europe and the year is 1942. You gasp and say but I am not mentally ill enough to be sent to an institution! Why I would be able to take my meds at home and with the support and understanding of my family! No way that would end up murdered because of that! That is because you have to remember the year was in the early forties. Thorozine had not been invented yet let alone all the other wonderful drugs some of us complain we have to take. And the DSM IV? There wasn't even a DSM! So, here we are without meds, without the research we have today. No patients bill of rights, no support groups of any kind. Still think you would be cared for at home instead of being sent to an asylum? Go ahead and close your eyes and imagine how your particular issues manifest themselves without out any kind of treatment. Still think your safe. I know I would be considered "life unworthy of life". BREAK

Before killing the mentally ill was accepted, I need to mention here that sterelizing was a precautionary measure so we could not breed...too risky. A mentally ill child could be conceived. We are talking forced sterelization. It wasn't up to the patient. Oh, almost forgot. Someone decided that this population would be great to determine the fastest most cost efficent way to do this. This involved shortcuts like not having a clean germ free environment (took too long). Why clean the tools? Waste of time (yes there were many deaths as a result and antibiotics, well there was hardly enough for the soldiers. And then, they even tried non surgical procedures which were even faster. One method was chemical castration using all different types of caustic toxic chemicals. Most got sick and died. Then some doctor came up with killing the reproductive organs with massive amounts of radiation. This would burn the ovaries and testies until they were no longer viable. CONTINUED

Sigh. This is hard. Please excuse the misspellings and the gaps and stuff. Gabi's right. This needs to go in a blog once I polish it up. I will still continue with this thread. It will be my way of honoring those mentally ill people who died. This included children as well. Wanna know a rough estimate of the deaths? At least 200,000 in Germany and Austria. They deserve to be honor and remembered and given a voice. I will continue tomorrow.