Venting...

Just wanted to come here and by typing HOPEFULLY get rid of some of these thoughts...

A couple of months ago I walked away from one of my chief abusers - my "father." Litterly hung up the phone on him (after several warnings that I'd do that if he didn't stop the abusive lauguage) and have not had contact with him ever since. Intellectually, I know it was right thing to do. Long over due after a lifetime of first his physical abuse and/or neglect - and as I got older verbal abuse. I've been supported by many people here, as well as my T who is unfailing in her willingness to be there for me.

But for the last couple days the thought pattern has been : "Oh come on! How bad was it really?? He's an old man now. Stop this nonsense and go see him." And of course the old stand by... "You know he's not gonna live forever..."

Well, in reality it was pretty DA** bad... The effects of which still haunt me and my brother today. I've chosen therapy. My brother has chosen to be a hermit. And most likely contributed in killing our mother (who dished out her own special brand of abuses). But the turmoil persists... Logic -vs- "missing my dad."

Thoughts?? Anybody??

Lava it is normal for you to have these feelings and it is good that you are thinking about him as a man, a man that made a lot of mistakes, but he was abusive to you Lava. And any attempts you have made have been met with his continued combativeness and abusive behavior. Plus he is old and is fighting a disease that is going to further his anger about everything. People who age that have had abusive behaviors in the past, almost always get worse.

You are a good person and I know there is a part of you that wants to be humble and forgiving. But the problem is that every attempt you have made to do so has put your own mental health at risk as you return to the same person who will most likely get worse instead of better. For him, everything is about him and not anyone else and that is not going to change. Lets remember we are talking about a man that had to have police come and get him under control so he could be treated.
He is a danger now to you Lava, and he may even hurt you out of a decline in his ability to function normally. His answer has always been anger, never love and kindness. And it almost sounds like he even resented his life responsibilities and his treatment of you showed that.

You have taught yourself how to heal and stop and look at the man who created so much pain in your past. And it has helped you realize that it wasn't your fault. You have grown stronger and been able to finally not only morn your past but free yourself of it.

Missing your dad? That dad you miss never existed Lava and he is still not there.
Your brother is a codependant and just makes excuses for your father, that is how he deals with it. Your brother has just given in and he too will live out his days in a way that he will continue to punish himself and banish himself from any normal kind of life to a shack in the woods. That is what your father made of your brother and your brother just accepts it as he has no will to do anything else.

The ultimate choice is yours Lava but you have to realize that the man who was in your life growing up was abusive and never truely loved you as a son. He did what he knew, yes, but he is too old to change now. He has already told you that in your every attempt to try to create a bond and hear him appologize for what he did to you or even give you any credit that you had always so wanted all your life. He is not capable of that, he is way too self absorbed and never has learned to think of anyone except himself and his own needs.

The question is, are you going to enable him to hurt you more?

What does your T say?

You have had a nice summer and you have grown close to your wife, do you want to again put that on the line? You are still struggling with the fact that you are a nice person and inspite of your past you have made a choice to grow up and be who you really are. It took you a lot of time to do that Lava and you had to finally release a lot of pent up anger and so many emotions to get where you are now. And part of that was coming to the realization that that man was never the father you needed in any way. He is not going to change and his answer was always abuse and I don't think he is going to break a life time mold.

That is just my opinion. You have to talk about this with your T. I sure don't want to see you go backwards.

Open Eyes

Hi Lavalamp - you probably only know me from the other thread we were posting on, but hopefully you can see beyond that lol. I'm very sorry you and your brother suffered physical and emotional abuse. I never suffered abuse of any kind luckily, but my family still had some dysfunction and as a result I've experienced some alienation of family at different points in my life. I've been thinking about your post and how to respond.

First I'll say - there are circumstances, especially if a person has suffered sexual abuse or physical abuse, where it becomes necessary to completely isolate the abuser, in order to preserve the persons well being and sanity. Some of the family alienation was a choice on my part and the other instance it was forced on me because my brother had bipolar disorder and he needed to be alone. I tried many times to reach out, to no avail unfortunately.

I admire your courage in standing up for yourself. Whether your decision is the right one, is for you and your therapist to think about. The only way I think you could maintain a relationship with your dad, is if you could maintain firm boundaries and if it was healthy for you emotionally. The one important question a person needs to ask themselves is - "would I be okay if the person passed and I didn't see them or make some kind of connection"? It's also perfectly okay if the answer is "yes". For example my husband reached a point where he was alienated from his mother - its a long story but she was very manipulating. She was ill and several times I encouraged him to visit her. I even point blank asked him "if she were to pass, would you be at peace" and his answer was "yes". So she did pass and even told other family members not to notify him until after the funeral - it was her way of twisting the knife one more time".

If you did change your mind and still wanted to continue some contact - then it would have to be on your terms...and hopefully your dad would agree/respect those boundaries(ideally speaking). If that did happen, then you could both approach the process as, just two men interacting on a basic level...rather than, as father and son. You would be interacting out of basic empathy and he would respect you as a man - tomen sharing time. In order to get to this point, you would need to grow into this mindset and let go of the dysfunctional father/son relationship, the good childhood you never had and reckon with the past. It doesn't mean you HAVE to forgive...it just means you won't have to carry around the resentment and pain anymore. This is the ideal situation to be in, when someones faced with dealing with their abuser parent and only works if both parent and adult child are cooperative. If you don't think your dad could ever be capable of this kind of basic relationship, which requires respect and boundaries, then you need to give yourself full permission to detach as much as you need to. The detachment can be varied from complete alienation to whatever is comfortable for you. I wish you peace and confidence in your decision.

Thanks for your input Lynn. I appreciate it. Reading what you had to say gave me a certain amount of sadness. Because unfortunetly, my father is not capable of any of the things you listed as necessary in order for us to have a relationship. And never has...

What I didn't mention in my post was the last time I saw my father (8 months ago) he was being led into a Police car in hancuffs. That's what happens when you threaten case workers from the Division of Aging with a loaded shotgun... The day had started off as simply his oldest son (me) trying to convince him to go to the hospital to have a cathetor put in because his Prostate cancer had progressed to the point where it was blocking his urinary tract. But since my father has a deep distrust for the medical profession (he has broken off every one of his teeth with pliers at the gum line rather than going to the dentist) he refused. So, to hopefully avoid him "drowning in his own urine," as had been described by the nurse who had informed me of his condition, I called someone to hopefully convince him to go... Next thing I knew the street had been blocked off - the house surrounded by the town "Swat Team" with loaded weapons, and I watched my father being led away -- to the hospital where a catheter was inserted...

Of course, I was "to blame" for that and led to his stating "You're no damn good...!" As my brother said at the time, "alot of trouble for a lousy catheter..."

I also didn't mention in my earlier post that sexual abuse was included in my 18 years with those people.... Both me and my brother. And violence. Just one example : I am 50% Puerto Rican. All through school i was called "spic" and other dispicable names due to my heritage. One day I was jumped by 5 or 6 kids and beaten bloody. After the neighbor left who had half carried me home, my "father" beat me nearly unconscious for "losing the fight." Apparently I had "embarrassed him... I was 6.

Now I don't say these things to make anyone feel sorry for me. What's done is done. I'm dealing with them in therapy. I only list them in order to give some idea of the mentality I'm dealing with.

My father is mentally ill. And as he gets older, it's getting worse. (he's 85) He's now seeing "Nazis" and experiencing other delusions. He really is a danger to himself but adamantly refuses any help whatsoever. I've tried.....

So finally I had to make the difficult decision to walk away and let providence take care of him. And it pains me to say that we probably never will have the type of "re-newal" you described. It DOES pain me to say that.

For in spite of the stories, in spite of the effects I feel today - I still miss that man. Whether it's him I miss or the dad I wish I had is debatable. What's not debatable today - for me - is that for me to continue to go back to him, expecting things to be different, is - again for me - the definition of insanity.

I can't do it anymore.... And that pains me to say.

Oh wow that was a powerful post and I agree its time to call it quits with your dad to spare your own well being. I'm sorry for all you've been through, even though I'm sure its inadequate and I think you have full right not see him or have communication. I know that won't take the pain away or the mixed feelings but at least it spares any future damage to you. Amazing how we still can long for our family or loved ones even though they don't deserve it.