May trigger

I grew up in an upper class suburban beach community in SoCal. It was actually a little piece of heaven. I was very very blessed. Although my parents made enormous mistakes raising me (the eldest of three), I grew up not wanting for anything. I grew up with all the material and financial perks. I never thought I would do without. It never occurred to me.

Someone I was dating mocked me once by saying, "I bet you got an allowance...right? So what did you do to earn it?" I had no answer other than I was a good kid. I did not drink, smoke, do drugs, and was a good student.

From an early age on, I was afforded music, dance, art, sailing, tennis and riding lessons. I went to sleep-away camp for a few weeks each summer. My summers were spent at the beach with all my friends...practically sunup to sundown. I spent my winters skiing as much as time allowed.

I had new clothes every week.

My parents got me a car when I was sixteen. I had automatic credit at the gas stations and my insurance (health and vehicle) were paid for.

I was a very good student and had goals for my future. I knew what I wanted to do with my life when I was 14. Everyone I know went to college. It was just a given...

So, why am I telling you all of this?

Because despite all the material things and living in "Disneyland" as one of my very favorite brilliant HS Instructors called it, I was definitely missing out on something important. I knew I had a "hole" and that my self esteem was very low, but I never understood what was wrong. I had all the "stuff" , so according to family values, what could possibly be wrong. I was a huge failure already for having those feelings.

To make things even more difficult, our parents and the social circle they associated with...many families, the kids all grew up together. K - 12. None of our parents were divorced and were old fashioned with strict family and moral values . We spent the holidays together.

(Someone tried to hurt me here by claiming happily married couples and good, healthy relationships were a sham and i was stupid and living in a bubble) however i know for a fact that my parents have been very happily married for over 50 years. Has all the other couples. They set a very high bar for us kids.

The problem though is that I had no foundation. No guidance and boundaries. I was just expected to be a certain way and anything less was intolerable. I was raised also in an environment where people are good, professionals are just that and would never behave unethically or let their family's down or embarrass them. And people behaved properly and with manners.

When did having good manners start becoming construed as weakness, I wonder?

I was "ugly" if I cried, "melodramatic" if I disagreed and "sick" if I expressed or felt a negative feeling.

I was told by my mother that if I just did what she wanted, I could have anything.

Everything about our life was about appearances. If we looked good, it made our mother look good. If we "failed" in her eyes, it reflected poorly on her and we were given the eye and the cold shoulder. She would even literally get in her car and drive away if we "stressed" her. my poor brother grew up thinking all women do is get married and spend their husband's money.

It was impossible to be human. There was no way on God' green earth to live up to perfection. Every misstep was a monumental failure.

When I went away to college, I gained the requisite Freshman Fifteen...when I came home for the holidays, I was immediately put on a diet and everyone bought me workout clothes for my birthday. Even my girlfriends. I got a pineapple for a birthday cake.

So, when things came crashing down at 19, I wasnt a sexual assault survivor...i was an embarrassment. And somehow a personal failure to our family. I was told i must have done something to deserve it and the family was better off without me.

Since then, I have spent the last 20 years or so, experiencing major traumas, getting up and pushing through one disaster after another.

What wasnt expected or normal was to talk about these things. If I tried, I was dismissed, ignored, invalidated, told it never happened, to just get over it or simply that I was crazy. And I was cut off financially.

My family continued to abandon me emotionally leaving me flapping in the wind to deal with all the "unpleasantness" alone.

When I finally just broke down after enduring more stress and trauma (imagine that list of the most 20 stressful things that can happen to a person and check off most of the items on that list that was my life to a "t". After awhile frankly sll the trauma gets embarrasing...people just didnt want to know about it or hear about it so I lost my voice. I clammed up and shut down completely). It wasnt until I wrote to my brother and told them I didnt want to live anymore did they actually call me.

My pdoc joked at least you know if you did sui, they'd come to the funeral. I winced at that because I could just imagine my mother putting on her sad face for the crowd, secretly filled with glee that I was finally gone. Like she did with my beloved grandmother.

And by some miracle, I am still here. I fall but i get up. I make mistakes but i do not suffer. And with your help I am making gains. It amazes me. We are so complex...

Thanks for sticking with me.

[Rapunzel]

What you are describing is emotional invalidation, and it is so hard to deal with because other people keep on denying that the problem even exists (perpetuating more invalidation). Does this sound familiar: http://www.practiceofmadness.com/201...alidation-101/

Rapunzel, thank you for responding...I was very nervous to post that because I was afraid other members would mock me or just roll their eyes i was actually ashamed and tried to delete the thread but was unable. I left it "open" on edit mode hoping it wouldnt show up

The title that you refer to resonates for me. As do the words you have written (I really want to connect to that link but am unable ...sometimes my droid is limited. For instance I can see very few features here on pc, cannot connect to links, cannot see pics, etc)

I will definitely try to connect when I get to my pc and if it is ok, write back then

Thank you again for responding ... and for NOT making fun or making me feel more ridiculous than I already do.

I realized too last night how incredibly helpful PC has been for me and how much I value the members here xx

Rose

[Irine]

The essence of your story is SO close to mine - it hurts so much to see this betrayal. If something is not natural - then it cannot be good. All those perfect manner innocent good people are no more than liars - and first of all - to themselves.

Originally Posted by Irine

The essence of your story is SO close to mine - it hurts so much to see this betrayal. If something is not natural - then it cannot be good. All those perfect manner innocent good people are no more than liars - and first of all - to themselves.

((((Irine)))) now that i am stronger emotionally and I have distanced myself, i am finding that to be true. It is very painful and sad. How to come to terms with it though is still a challenge.

[skeksi]

Originally Posted by Rose Panachée

I was "ugly" if I cried, "melodramatic" if I disagreed and "sick" if I expressed or felt a negative feeling.

I was told by my mother that if I just did what she wanted, I could have anything.

Everything about our life was about appearances. If we looked good, it made our mother look good. If we "failed" in her eyes, it reflected poorly on her and we were given the eye and the cold shoulder. She would even literally get in her car and drive away if we "stressed" her.

I relate to this.

I suffer from c-ptsd. Growing up, I was led to believe that if I just did everything right then I would succeed. But, it's not possible to do everything right and there are many more factors to succeess.
Oh, and people hate dudley do-rights!

While your childhood seems ideal, perhaps you were overprotected. Reality is not having everything handed to you on a platter. It sounds like you are a very nice person. I am sorry to hear of the negative effects your childhood has had on your adult life because it does not seem to have prepared you well for it. There also seems to be a perfectionist streak in your mom. She seems to have tried to raise you too perfectly, without a sense of the problems of life and how hard it really, really is. Now, as an adult, you are left to fend for yourself.

Also, society's values have changed. People are not as committed to their marriages and don't want to compromise. I can't understand why manners are seen as a weakness - how do people expect to get along with one another? It seems that as money gets more and more scarce that power (and its abuse) becomes more and more important.

I am sorry that you are struggling. Some members of your family seem to believe that you need to be perfect but you are perfect just as you are. Their expectations are too high. They seem to lack compassion. Rhey don't want to re-group as a family to work out problems, leaving you feeling and being alone. I am sorry that has happened.

When I finally went to Walt Disney World, I hated it. It was so fake. You are now learning to deal with reality. I hope some day you will master it just enough to learn to enjoy living in the real world with real friends and real relationships based on good values with truly well-rounded people who value real human friends and lovers more than empty, shallow show-off perfection. All the best to you!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Rose Panachée

I was told by my mother that if I just did what she wanted, I could have anything.

My family said the same thing, but it was a lie. PC is my lifesaver too.

Wow! Ok so if anyone ever asks me "what is most malicious thing you've ever done"...i can say, "I refused to sui, just to piss off my mother"

[Open Eyes]

(((Rose))),

What you are discribing is that your parents "bought" your childhood. In other words, if you have good clothes, if you have a nice car, if you summer in an expensive place with others who also "have' many nice things, your parents are "together", then how could you possibly be "unhappy or unfulfilled"?

Well, I learned about that in kind of a strange way actually.

I was trying very hard to provide my daughter with a pony and a trainer because my daughter really loved to ride and compete. And that environment is really geared for the wealthy crowd. There are ways, if one is very resourseful, to try be a part of that world, but it can be a challenge to keep up to it and be competetive. And that is because, this wealthy crowd has the best of the best and the children ride very talented well trained horses/ponies. So for someone who can't "buy" that ready made beautiful steed, the only way is to try to find something, pretty, untrained and to try very hard to make it up/train it on your own.

So what this means is that while these little girls were competing with my daughter, they were posing on a very well trained animal, while my daughter had to ride every inch of the competition. The real fact in these competitions was that had these other girls had to switch horses/ponies with my daughter, they would have failed to get my daughter's pony around that ring in that competition.

It was actually even more interesting because my daughter had NEVER really ridden a show horse or pony where she could just sit back give it a little cue and the horse/pony would just do the rest. So my daughter NEVER knew what it felt like to ride a "finished well trained horse/pony". SO, if my daughter did switch with a girl that had one of these highly trained animals, she may have struggled too, because she would not have really known how to just "be a passenger" instead of "the driving force" of the animal.

I think another way to look at it would be if you have one person who only knows how to drive with a "stick shift" on a car, and give them a fancy car that all they had to do is put it in gear and cruise control and sit back and just steer, well, that person would find it actually hard at first and be constantly mentally looking/or putting their hand in position to use the stick shift and foot on a clutch.

And the same would be true for someone who is used to driving a fine "mercedes" and they all of a sudden are put behind the wheel of a standard "low cost vehicle". Oh I hear the grinding right now.

Well, one day I was at a horse show with my daughter and I wanted to see the kind of "show ponies" that the young girls were riding. I needed to get an idea of what to look for when I went out pony shopping for my daughter, and ofcourse I would be buying a standard that maybe could be made into an automatic one day.

While I was at a show, and it was an A show with the "fancy show ponies/horses" I was standing at the gate and noticed a little girl crying.
And this little girl was holding onto the prettiest white pony I had ever seen. And I found out that it was the pony that had belonged to a very wealthy celebritie's daughter at one time, so it sure was the real deal.

So I said to the little girl, "Why are you crying, you have the prettiest pony I have ever seen, and your trainer is the most important trainer a little girl could have. How could such a lucky little girl be crying? And the little girl said, "Well, my daddy PROMISED me that he would be here today to watch me ride, AND HE DIDN'T COME, HE SAID HE HAD TO WORK. And ALL I WANT IS FOR MY DADDY TO BE HERE WITH ME!!! And he is always just WORKING and never comes. So this little girl was supposed to be "happy" because "she had everything right? And in that experience I somehow realized that had that little girl had a lesser pony and may not have even won, if she had her daddy there, that would have been what really would have made her happy.

Having the best is not what really "makes people happy". But it is also thought that if we don't have the best, we don't deserve to be happy as well, or maybe we are "not good enough" either. And god forbid we cry in either situation.

Rose, it doesn't matter what we have "materialistic wise" it is the human closeness and value we really want. We need to know we are loved and valued and respected, and this is not something that we can buy. And as human beings we need to "have emotions" too.

Rose, I didn't have all things you had at your disposal growing up, and yet we are so parellel in how we suffer in some ways. The invalidation is the same and I can truely relate to the link that is posted above. I have heard each and every statement written in that link. And I am hearing them now in my fight to at least get VALIDATED FOR WHAT I HAD THAT GOT TAKEN FROM ME.

Rose, remember how I said I want to experience "not having the designer shoes but have something more important to me?" How I wanted to laugh to the depths of me because I don't have the "designer shoes" and if I get caught being complimented for what I DID have I could really just laugh and not feel like I NEED TO HAVE THOSE DAM SHOES TO BE IMPORTANT? AND RESPECTED OR EVEN HEARD?

Well, that is right WHERE I AM, but I truely LOVED WHAT I HAD IT MEANT SOMETHING TO ME, IT WAS PRICESLESS. But because it was not DESIGNER or BIG ENOUGH I AM NOT BEING HEARD. And the only thing my Lawyer talks about is the ONE BIG DESIGNER TYPE THING THAT I LOST.
And that is NOT ALL I LOST. And I am sooooooo angry that HE JUST WONT SEE IT OR RESPECT IT.

Okay, the only thing HE wants to focus on is that very expensive horse of my daughter's AND HE WONT SEE ALL THAT IT TOOK FOR THAT EXPENSIVE HORSE TO HAPPEN. No one sees that, NO ONE IS VALIDATING THAT FOR ME.

Every time I am in his presense and we talk about the VALUE of my case, he seems to need to tell me that it is not like I am going to WIN POWERBALL OR SOMETHING. He told me that this case is in the place where (and he demonstrates this acting it out) the plaintiff is sitting on the john smoking a cigar and dreaming about WHAT HE WILL BE REWARDED, WHAT HE WILL WIN. And he has this BIG NUMBER IN HIS HEAD. But then he had to think about something less, and then finally what he will accept in the end. But Rose, WHAT HE IS ACTING OUT, IS HIMSELF AND FAR FROM HOW OR WHAT I FEEL MYSELF. Because what HE is thinking about is THE GOD DAM DESIGNER HORSE AND THAT ONE FIGURE and not all that I AM OR DID TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. He is thinking about what 1/3 of that price tag will put in HIS pocket. That is what HE WANTS on HIS END.

Oh yeah, AND I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO FEEL EMOTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS either.

As far as I am concerned, EVERYTHING I HAD WAS 'DESIGNER". I had designed every single animal, my whole business to MAKE ME HAPPY AND FULLFILLED AS A PERSON. Powerball? Me hitting powerball in this case IS NOT GOING TO REPLACE WHAT I HAD. BUT, at the very least, I would like to have WHAT I HAD, REPSECTED.

The past few days I have been looking over the numbers of loss of income and how much I owe and lost, the real numbers. And I realized that I sure did a lot of work and HE HAS ALL THESE NUMBERS AND ALL THE LOSSES.
And ALL HE "WANTS" TO SEE IS THIS "DESIGNER" horse. And even if I got rewarded the total value of this so called designer horse? There is no real way I could "replace him" because not only was he "unique" in that all living things are "unique" but we spent years training this "unique" animal to be a "designer animal that became part of my daughter in so many ways that was finally being "shown" and "enjoyed" for that "unique partnership" that CANNOT BE BOUGHT WITH ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY".

And if I died tomarrow? Then everyone would play the part of being sad, but then they could all just focus on this DAM DESIGNER horse and FORGET ABOUT what OE was trying to fight for that was so important to her. Yup, no one would have to pay attention to what was important to OE anymore, they could all just "settle" for "whatever" and go their merry way.

So I hear you Rose, and what I really want to do? I want to call a meeting and tell these people what I really think about them, and I DON'T CARE WHO WILL GET MAD, at LEAST I WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH. I want to tell the opposing side that I am sick of their games and that I pursued for damages right away, I wanted my husbands losses claimed right away, I think that the way they have hung my deposition over my head all these years is "abuse" and my own lawyer is "abusing me". I want to tell them what I really think. And yet I am bound and gaged in so many ways just like I was as a little girl. NO, I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING I HAVE TO PRETEND I DON'T FEEL IT.

I hear you Rose.

Open Eyes

[Irine]

wait - i see this term appears more than once - what is c-ptsd - i know only of ptsd.

Complex-ptsd (chronic major traumas)

[Open Eyes]

((Rose)),

As children, we are designed to "want to please" our parents. We look to them for so much. We want them to tell us we are loved and have value. But that really isn't something someone can "buy". If a parent can easily provide the things you are talking about, it becomes what that parent thinks is important, not what the child thinks is important. However a child CAN learn to think that these things "are" important and that their value is about what they "have". And it really doesn't change much from a parent who is wealthy enough to give "big" things or a parent who isn't as wealthy and gives what "they" can. If a parent sets a child up to thinking that the bottom line is all about "pleasing the parent" and not truely learning what they can accomplish to "make themselves happy and feel fulfilled" than all these gifts of priviliage are just wasted.

The whole time my daughter was riding and showing horses, and even now, all I kept telling her is that how she could make "me" happy is to "be happy herself". I kept telling her that I really didn't care about the ribbons, all I really wanted was to see a smile on her face. In other words, did she enjoy that competition and make some gains of her own with her horse, did she accomplish something she had been working hard on getting that horse or pony to learn to do. That is also the way I taught my students one by one, about "their" accomplishment and how it made "them" feel, not about what I "needed them to do to please me".

It doesn't matter where one is on the economic scale, what matters is having a parent, or family that respects the "child and the childs feelings". This business about "presenting the perfect family image" is crap. Because families address "challenges and imperfections" and no amount of money can change that. And you are right, your mother just wanted to "look perfect in every way" and if her children were not going to "be perfect" then she took that as a personal offense. And any mother that is like that, doesn't understand that children need more than to just be little miss/mister perfect for mommy and daddy. But the problem is, that your mother honestly doesnt truely "know that". Your mother is all about things and "image". And there is a name for this, "narcisism".

Well, everyone has to have some narcisitic qualities to them. But if they cant see beyond their own needs and happiness and see the needs of family members, then it can become a disorder. And often a narcisist will lavish family because it is part of the picture "they need" for themselves, their need for admiration. They actually don't truely know how to show love and adore their children as individuals.

You have to work on finding "your own true qualities" and they are there Rose. And it is also important to make sure that you don't give up what is important to you, just to please others. We can "share" the things that are important to us with others, but we do not need to give them up to others.

Open Eyes

Thanks all....i am getting there slowly. One day at a time xx

[Open Eyes]

(((Rose))),

Yes you ARE gaining. I have noticed myself that with this PTSD it can be a struggle and wonder if we deserve to be angry and feel when it "seems" on some level a parent provided. There is some kind of a message "I should be thankful and give in somehow". I have thought about that myself.

But what does that mean overall? What can tell someone about how well they were raised is how they interpret the world around them as an adult. And ofcourse how they are able to heal even when they present with PTSD.

So while the list provided in the link offered is important, and I have heard all those phrases myself. It is also how we "allow" ourselves to think in the work place and around other people that cross our paths.

I am just "lucky" to have a job so I have to make sure I please the boss, even when I disagree or he/she disrespects my feelings.
I will accept whatever pay I can get, even if it is less than someone else doing the same job, I must just be happy for what I CAN get.
If I am to be accepted and deemed important, I have to make sure I have the "materialistic items, and clothing" that is deemed important.
I have to remind myself that "I should not have feelings of my own, the important thing is how well I look and how efficient I am at pleasing others".
If I do not have the things my parents provided or had then I am not a worthy person, I am a failure somehow in life. And I should have what they have or even better so that "they will love and respect me".
If I don't do that then my parents will be angry at me for not giving them the successful adoring child they feel they deserve.
If I am with my parents and family I have to remember that my feelings and opinions are not important, that the important thing is how I adore them and continue to make them look good in the eyes of others. After all that is my job, to continue to show the world how perfect my parents were/are.

While it is important to be grateful for some of the things we have in life, it is important to remember that we have a right to our own personal value as well. And the emotional balance will come when we find our way to navigate our lives in maintaining that right inspite of constraints that others try to put on us. And this is where both of us are at right now.
I am involved in a situation where I know I am being abused and neglected and my problem is that I am really being tested and I am not sure how to "play the game" because I am not an attorney. And there is definitely "a game" that I have been playing for the last five years that allows for "abuse" to take place. And because this situation I am in is lending to that fact, the PTSD I am experiencing has been extra crippling.
This has nothing to do with "me imagining anything" either. And the biggest problem for me has been that I have genuinely struggled to stand up and fight back because I struggle to hold back the overwhelming emotions that come forward in my brain that say, "yes, you are being abused and it hurts you". And in my past, "the abuser did win and I did suffer".

When you were trying to decide about T2 and you thought about hanging in there according to "his" schedule in unaccessability to you, you were triggered. And there was a part of you that felt that you should try to continue doing therapy "his" way. And because your T2 is a man, and you have been "betrayed and abandoned" by men in your past, you were even "more" triggered. And what was hard was that this T2 did learn that about you. And even though he learned that, he remained "unaccessable" to you. And my problem is very similar because my attorney knows that my neighbor was careless and it really damaged me, however, my attorney is also being "negligent" and he too is putting "my way of life, what was important to me" at risk again.

Rose, you chose to walk away from this T2 and that WAS a WISE choice.
Even though you don't really have a T right now, it is better than having a T that is not respecting "your genuine needs". And I have been impressed that you made that "wise" decision. And you were able to have another T validate you over the phone as well as those of us here at PC that could see your dilemma.

I haven't been able to accomplish that in my situation. I did try to locate another attorney to no avail. I have been told every time to keep my case going and just stay on top of my attorney. However my attorney has been hard to stay on top of, even when I tried and told him I was struggling and that he needed to "remember" scheduled depositions, he still failed me.

There is a big part of me that wonders if there is just something I am somehow not seeing. But what I do keep hearing is how my attorney wants to just present the value of the most obvious, highest valued horse that was damaged. Everything else, my loss of business the vet bills the loss of other animals, loss of work due to having to address the damages from myself, my husband and my daughter, they are just not part of what "he" feels is important. And I honestly feel that my attorney has also not been "accessable" to me and that I some how have to go along with that.
And this is where I really wish I didn't have PTSD, because it cripples me and interrupts with my efforts to be strong and fight back.

Well, I don't mean to bring up my issues, I am honestly in a very bad spot right now.

But you have been making the "right" choices and you are "progressing" in your healing. You even support and validate my situation and this is something I don't seem to get. However my T does recognize how my attorney is truely aggrivating my PTSD. I tend to get that list thrown at me alot too.

It has been such a blessing to have PC and others for support on our journey. Thank god for that!
Open Eyes

Originally Posted by Rapunzel

What you are describing is emotional invalidation, and it is so hard to deal with because other people keep on denying that the problem even exists (perpetuating more invalidation). Does this sound familiar: http://www.practiceofmadness.com/201...alidation-101/

((((Rap)))) Thank you so much. I was able to connect to the link...is that a portrait of me, and did I write this myself? I've heard those phrases so many times, in so many ways...still to this day...just last week, someone said one of those phrases to me and it tore me up inside.

R

[Nammu]

Man, If you take it a step down to WASP upper middle class in a Norman Rockwell town you have my life. My cousins so many of them are alcoholics or have other issues because of those expectations and the one thing thats different about middle class family, they after a while they do try to change-at least in my case. I was the one they all blamed for puncturing the picture of perfection except it never was perfect. It was better for my parents and their generation though. My parents were married until my father died, all my aunts and uncles their friends, they are still married, very few of the women worked. The line that grabbed me though was how what you do is a reflection of your mother-your failures are hers, your successes are hers, yes. You were stronger than me I did try, when I woke up in the hospital my mothers first words to me were a frosty "Thanks for making me look like such a failure as a mother." Ouch. It took a long time and a lot of therapy and because she would never go to a therapist I've been hers. Now we can have a civilized talk but we do live in different states! She has painted the past to look different and now I'm the crusader, the one who dared to be different(?)

But theres some mayor differences. I lost my hearing when I was 3 1/2 from a high fever and I was mainstreamed ie I had to also play the part of the perfect hearing person, I grew up pretending and guessing that I new what the hell everyone was saying. I was a great lip reader and guesser, I had to be, failure wasn't an option. Then I had my own little secret about the man two houses down. We lived in the country but kids went every where without anyone worrying. I wasn't his only victim. I was so good at keeping the secret that I hid it even from myself. I didn't remember until my daughter was the age I was when he started grooming me. My life was so perfect and other kids were envious, the summer camps, a cabin on a lake for the rest of summer, a pony, a horse, school was easy for me and other adults thought I was the perfect child. I was such a good child my parent would leave me home for weekends and go on mini vacations, I was 9 the first time they did and some friends of theres came by and I made coffee and served them cookies outside at the picnic table, my parents used to boast about that. When I became a mother I thought my god they were crazy, what kind of normal child does that? I've heard them tell that story so often. I thought it was normal.

Man, Rose I can Identify, you just waited to have your 20 traumas until and I just got a head start. I remember studying about emotional invalidation and have never thought about it since, that was before the memories. I'm so glad you posted this. You and Rapunzel have really helped me to day. I hope I can do the same someday. How many other bubbles were/are out there. I want to go shake every parent who is doing that and wake them up.