[CosmicRose]

I have PTSD and started having a horrible panic attack about 7 months ago, that I was totally convinced was 100% physical not mental. So the paramedics were called and there were 3 of them, all young attractive men, I'm a 22 yr old female so this made it even worse for obvious reasons. I was in a full blown panic attack and never experienced anything quite that intense before.
My hands became claw hands because I was hyperventilating like crazy and my muscles were locking. My tongue felt like it was swelling up and not working so I had compromised speech as well. It was really embarrassing but I wasn't even thinking about that at the time I was just feeling like I was about to die. The one paramedic just tried to calm me down and focus on my breathing.
This went on for like at least 1 hour in my living room.
When they finally left I was able to calm myself down, they convinced me I didn't need to go to the hospital which I'm grateful for now. The guy was really good at calming me down but he also laughed at one point and I even said "I feel like you guys aren't taking me seriously." and he said "We are taking you seriously." I think he might have laughed because he felt nervous or didn't know exactly how to handle the situation. The other paramedic just sat down and was quiet the whole time, and the third paramedic later told me I should take a walk outside (at night) and get some fresh air. I was like "Outside? I can barely walk."
I wonder how often paramedics are called to these kinds of calls.

Have you ever had a PTSD experience like this? Did you ever have an "episode" in front of others? Or did you ever call the paramedics during one? How common is this in people with PTSD? What is a typical PTSD episode like? Is it different for everyone?

[Teacake]

PTSD is not "panic attack". I have never had an episode like that. I did have a temp job that involved organising ambulance reports. The majority of them were anxiety attacks, panic attacks and inebriated suicidal gestures. Ingestion of cleaning products was popular in Texas and Oklahoma.

Paramedics are familiar with non-medical emergency calls. They are employees of private companies not volunteers. They get the paid the same saving lives or teaching you how to breathe. Im sure Its all in a days work for them. Most ambulance rides are this kind of nonsense.

Anxiety can FEEL like something neurological or endocrine. When you feel like your consciousness is diminishing and you cant be sure It is not a stroke or something serious and you feel you may only have a few minutes of lucidity, its understandable to call 911. It would be obnoxious to do it again.

[CosmicRose]

I know PTSD isn't a panic attack. I have PTSD and this was my first panic attack. I was diagnosed with "anxiety disorder" and "ptsd" so its a mix. I deal with ptsd every day but that was my first panic attack.

[MotownJohnny]

So sorry that happened. I had a ton of panic attacks, or at least panic-like attacks. Mine weren't like a heart attack in the end, instead I got nauseous and threw up a lot. Still do from time to time, but it is better than it was.

[Werewoman]

I have experienced exactly the kind of episode you describe - many times. One time it happened while my son was with me and he had to call my husband at work. He came home and was able to talk me down so I didn't end up going to the hospital as I first thought I should. Since then, as I now know for certain it's only a panic attack (my family doctor calls these episodes 'heart palpitations' ) and not cardiac related, I breathe into a paper bag to help stop the hyperventilating. Once I am able to get control of my breathing, I can now talk myself down, though my pdoc allows me to take an extra .5 mg of klonopin and 20 mg of inderal to help slow down the heart palpitations. I have never had to do that, but it's comforting to know I can if I feel the need.

You are younger than I am, but I had a full cardiac work-up after that episode just to make sure it was not cardiac related - thus family docs reference about 'heart palpitations' and he also said I should talk to my pdoc about upping my inderal dosage if it happened again 'just in case'. So far I have not felt the need to do so.

I have lived with PTSD for decades. Certain aspects of it are the same for everyone, some are not. I've never gotten nauseous or vomited like Johnny but that doesn't make his experience any better or worse than mine, imho - just different. Regardless, I consider panic attacks to be one of the worst symptoms of PTSD for me. I have extreme anxiety all day every day, but luckily I have a great therapist, pdoc, and supportive family to help me get through the bad times. I hope you do as well.

With good treatment your symptoms will diminish over time. I used to have nightmares so bad I would wake up screaming - if you want to find a way to totally freak out your kids AND your neighbors, that's a good one .

Mostly, healing involves learning your triggers and you will slowly learn to recognize them. Until then, you should expect flashbacks and anxiety as these are the hallmark symptoms for most sufferers. My flashbacks are strictly emotional, thank God, but some people experience visual as if they are right back in the experience that triggers it. Also, fight or flight responses to triggers are very common as well.

I hope this is helpful to you, and if you experience another panic attack, there's no shame in calling 911 to ask for help. Even at your young age, though it is unlikely, it COULD be cardiac related the next time so it is always the wise choice to have it checked out to get a definitive diagnosis. I hope those paramedics that responded at least did an EKG or something to eliminate the possibility of cardiac problems, otherwise imo they were grossly negligent.

Oh, and one more thing, I find that a good sense of humor goes a long way in not only healing yourself, but dealing with cold-hearted people who don't understand what you are going through.

Feel free to PM me anytime you'd like.

WW

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Teacake

Paramedics are familiar with non-medical emergency calls. They are employees of private companies not volunteers. They get the paid the same saving lives or teaching you how to breathe. Im sure Its all in a days work for them. Most ambulance rides are this kind of nonsense.

In the area where I now live most paramedics are paid but when I was at university almost all the paramedics were volunteers. I have been both volunteer and paid. I wouldn't quite call a panic attack nonsense but it is true that only 10-20% of calls are true emergencies where life is on the line. Until you get to assess the patient you don't know so all calls are taken seriously.

I've been on both sides of the cot. A few years ago I called for an ambulance because I was having difficulty speaking and I was very anxious about that and one of the medics asked me if I had panic attacks. I said, if I do this is my first. My pdoc later put me in-pt and we believe the change in speech was a side effect of temazepam.

It sounds like they did a good job of helping to calm you. That must have been really scary at the time.

[Open Eyes]

((CosmicRose)),

I am sorry you experienced that, yes, it's scary I have experienced that kind of attack too and called 911 myself. I could not get up off the kitchen floor it was so bad, I thought I was having a heart attack. My jaw hurt and so did my left arm, it was scary.

((Hugs))
OE

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by CosmicRose

I know PTSD isn't a panic attack. I have PTSD and this was my first panic attack. I was diagnosed with "anxiety disorder" and "ptsd" so its a mix. I deal with ptsd every day but that was my first panic attack.

You referred to your event as a panic attack in the post but a "ptsd episode" in your subject line. One might infer you believed the terms were synonyms.

Panic and anxiety are also two different things as well. A panic attack is not the direct result of an anxiety disorder or PTSD. You do have quite a mix.

[MotownJohnny]

I'm actually doing better controlling the "mini panic attacks" I still get by using the "resource spotting" technique of brain spotting, where I fix my gaze, with eyes closed, on my "happy spot" in my field of vision, and try to consciously calm myself through breathing, etc. It does work.

[Werewoman]

CosmicRose,

I thought it might be helpful if you had a better understanding of what defines PTSD. Sorry, I can't help myself - I'm a former high school teacher.

Definition of POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER

: a psychological reaction that occurs after experiencing a highly stressing event (as wartime combat, physical violence, or a natural disaster) outside the range of normal human experience and that is usually characterized by depression, anxiety, flashbacks, recurrent nightmares, and avoidance of reminders of the event.

Medical Definition of PANIC ATTACK: an episode of intense fear or apprehension that is of sudden onset and may occur for no apparent reason or as a reaction to an identifiable triggering stimulus (as a stressful event); specifically : one that is accompanied by usually four or more bodily or cognitive symptoms (as heart palpitations, dizziness, shortness of breath, or feelings of unreality) and that typically peaks within 10 minutes of onset.

Episode: an event or a short period of time that is important or unusual
:an occurrence of an illness

panic: a state or feeling of extreme fear that makes someone unable to act or think normally
: a situation that causes many people to become afraid and to rush to do something
:a sudden overpowering fright; also : acute extreme anxiety

I hope this is helpful for you. I have always struggled with 'what it all means' to suffer from PTSD and have a lot of difficulty finding the right words to explain it to others.

WW

[ChipperMonkey]

I agree with @TeaCake. What you describe is a "panic attack". Not everyone with PTSD has panic attacks. I know that I don't. Ok, so yes, I am quite guilty of describing my "episodes" as "panic attacks" but that's only because the general public has NO idea what an emotional flashback is, and to an uneducated observer, they look the same. (I have NO hope whatsoever for anyone to be able to understand an emotional flashback as 99.9% of therapists and psychiatrists have no idea what one is either....hence why I was undiagnosed for 25 years, but I digress!)

I have episodes all the time. I am getting better at not experiencing them in public, but sometimes it can't be avoided. Most of my episodes have at least a few second warning so that I can get to a private space, but occasionally they don't, and BAM, I have one in front of others. And yes, it is completely embarrassing.

Medical professionals such as paramedics and ER employees are well accustomed to those who present with a panic attack but think they are dying or having a heart attack. That is, it is not uncommon for someone with their first panic attack to go to the ER because they think its something much more serious.

My guess is that PTSD "episodes" involve some element of a flashback as that's sort of the crux of the disorder, that is, being stuck in the past in one way or another. You describe a panic attack which is more along the lines of someone with GAD. I am sure there is some overlap, but panic attacks aren't a part of a PTSD diagnosis.

[CosmicRose]

ChipperMonkey, do you ever have an "episode" at work?

[Teacake]

Didnt you require your students to cite their sources, Werewoman?

It's fascinating to me that panic and anxiety are two distinct things, both of which are distinct from ptad.

From an emergency medicine perspective the importance of the distinction should be obvious. People eith ptad may have had to fight and may be triggered into fighting defensively against rescuers. I do not experience anxiety or panic during a "ptsd episode". I experience an adrenaline high and an opiate numb. It's a state nature designed for fighting longand hard without feeling pain and without overthinking. Emergency workers who have rescued injured peoplwle with ptad can tell you its not at all like talking down an hysterical emotionally fragile person. It's way different. My English professors would be appalled by my thumb typing but approve my insistence that words are to be chosen carefully. So would the nurse who heard me say "ptsd" but whose experience misinformed her nonmilitary females who say ptsd don't really have real ptsd. It's *******ed embarrassing to disclose ptsd and hear later, "omg you really do have ptsd ". I said I did. But fuzzy semantics caused It to mean something silly.

[Open Eyes]

Information on PTSD and Panic Disorder

PTSD and panic disorder commonly co-occur. This may not be surprising given that people who have experienced a traumatic event or have PTSD are at a heightened risk to develop a number of other psychiatic disorders, such as depression, substance use disorders, or other anxiety disorders. One anxiety disorder that is commonly found among people with a history of traumatic exposure or PTSD is panic disorder.

Also, there is a great deal of information that discuss that it is not uncommon to experience PTSD "and" have panic attacks.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by Teacake

Didnt you require your students to cite their sources, Werewoman?

Of course! In this case I call it a dictionary - Merriam Webster to be exact. LOL!

WW

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Werewoman

Of course! In this case I call it a dictionary - Merriam Webster to be exact. LOL!

WW

You were a "pear" of a teacher. I always got bears. .

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Information on PTSD and Panic Disorder

PTSD and panic disorder commonly co-occur. This may not be surprising given that people who have experienced a traumatic event or have PTSD are at a heightened risk to develop a number of other psychiatic disorders, such as depression, substance use disorders, or other anxiety disorders. One anxiety disorder that is commonly found among people with a history of traumatic exposure or PTSD is panic disorder.

Also, there is a great deal of information that discuss that it is not uncommon to experience PTSD "and" have panic attacks.

Are you using "traumatic exposure" and PTSD interchangeably? They are two distinct things.

I would very much like a credible source for the statement that people who have PTSD are at greater risk of developing psychiatric disorders. Secondary depression is commonly diagnosed and I have read that a great many psychosomatic complaints may be ptsd related but seriously question that people who meet the criteria for PTSD then develop secondary psychiatric disorders.

It is important that we tell the truth with accuracy and specificity. PTSD kills. It's not fair to people who have PTSD to call all nervous conditions PTSD. Anxiety and panic embarrass and frighten. They do not carry the risk factors of PTSD.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by Teacake

You were a "pear" of a teacher. I always got bears. .

That's probably because I taught electronics courses. Bears know nothing of electronics.

The most fun I got to have was debating with the physics teacher about 'electron current' vs 'hole current'.

[Angelique67]

I had to call an ambulance when I was bugging out in withdrawal, sleeplessness, panic, and so forth. It was extremely horrible and humiliating and the whole ordeal of that night lasted nearly 24 hours at the hospital ED. It was a nightmare. I will never go again to that ED no matter what happens.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Werewoman

That's probably because I taught electronics courses. Bears know nothing of electronics.

The most fun I got to have was debating with the physics teacher about 'electron current' vs 'hole current'.

Bears are smarter than you think. Already they can open car doors and unscrew peanut butter jars. It won't be long before they can figure out electronic locks, ignition systems and drivethrough window protocol.

[ChipperMonkey]

Originally Posted by CosmicRose

ChipperMonkey, do you ever have an "episode" at work?

I don't currently work, and haven't worked since I was diagnosed, but prior to that, yes, I did have episodes at work, but I didn't know what they were or how to deal with them. I just thought I was weak because I couldn't handle what came so naturally to everyone else. I fear the day I have to return to work....its one of the biggest motivators for becoming self employed!

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

I had to call an ambulance when I was bugging out in withdrawal, sleeplessness, panic, and so forth. It was extremely horrible and humiliating and the whole ordeal of that night lasted nearly 24 hours at the hospital ED. It was a nightmare. I will never go again to that ED no matter what happens.

I am sorry that happened to you. ER is always a crapshoot. I've been treated very well and very shabbily. No way to predict, except weekends and holidays are never good times to go to ER.

Doctors and nurses are generally very professional no matter what is happening around them. ER staff are so vulnerable to PTSD themselves they have seen It in themselves or each other. Security guards in the little lock sown suicide watch part have been very kind to me. They know what PTSD is too. It's the undereducated and inexperienced, overconfidant and undercompetent desk people and mental health social worker types who need to be replaced with service dogs and robots.

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by Teacake

I am sorry that happened to you. ER is always a crapshoot. I've been treated very well and very shabbily. No way to predict, except weekends and holidays are never good times to go to ER.

Doctors and nurses are generally very professional no matter what is happening around them. ER staff are so vulnerable to PTSD themselves they have seen It in themselves or each other. Security guards in the little lock sown suicide watch part have been very kind to me. They know what PTSD is too. It's the undereducated and inexperienced, overconfidant and undercompetent desk people and mental health social worker types who need to be replaced with service dogs and robots.

Oh God, no, not the place I went to. If I describe it they'll know who I am so I can't. But it was a nightmare from hell. I was alone and bullied by the nurses and staff. I can't tell you how bad it was. As contrast, I've been to ER's before and never had anything bad like that. They were monsters. Laughing at me, and worse.

ETA: They deliberately triggered me. En masse.

[Angelique67]

The EMT guys were making fun of my body, my apartment, everything. When I told them I had diarrhea later on they were mimicking me, etc.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by Teacake

Bears are smarter than you think. Already they can open car doors and unscrew peanut butter jars. It won't be long before they can figure out electronic locks, ignition systems and drivethrough window protocol.

Agreed!