[wordshaker]

Umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm umm

… … …

pretty triggered and trying to remain present but I just responded to a thread in Other Mental Health Discussion: This Pisses Me Off in which pedophiles, sex offenders and wife beating are stated clinical disorders and undiagnosed mental illness and that poor pedophiles have “no safe place” to go and no one to ask if they feel loved. Am I disintegrating and not reading right? I don’t think so. I responded strongly. I think that was the right thing to do. Right?

[wordshaker]

This is a part

[wordshaker]

And this. Am I not reading this right ?

[mote.of.soul]

Hi @wordshaker. I actually suffer PTSD too, so I guess I'm 'qualified' to be posting in this forum.

I basically understand what was being stated in the two attachments you quoted, but if I can help, what is it you'd like to know about?

[wordshaker]

So their ill and it’s not their fault so we need to take care of them,

[wordshaker]

So they need a safe place?

[wordshaker]

Isn’t that upside down - is my response wrong? Is my a user as blameless as I am?

[wordshaker]

I think that’s messed up. Ir my response is not the correct one I must be in the wrong place or crazier than I thought.

[mote.of.soul]

@wordshaker

Ah, yes. That was my point or viewpoint too, that what we consider to be a regular ordinary person can be quite skewed, as if ordinary people are almost saint-like. Of course the examples of pedophilia, violent offenders and other sex offenders might be extreme cases there are a lot of other immoral/unethical things we could throw in there too. That's not to say there aren't any 'good' people, though. And I'd say most 'ordinary' people are a mix. Controversial!

Also I think Marilyn2016 touched on something too basically pointing to the fact that not everyone born with the pedophile bug, are necessarily offenders. They may know what they themselves are but they have compassion or a conscience, but refrain from offending and probably never tell another soul for fear of the backlash, the judgement. I'd venture to say some of them may very well have committed suicide too, due to not being able to come to terms with the tendencies that live inside of them.

I thank goodness I personally don't have such pedophillic tendencies at all, so I count my lucky stars for that. Because it's my guess that many of them must struggle with it, without ever offending or even planning to. So, I just pray they never do go down the path of offending like many do.

[mote.of.soul]

Sorry it took me a while to respond @wordshaker, I'm a very slow typer on these fiddly little mobile phone keypads. 🙏

[wordshaker]

I agree with the above, hence my posting the link to their stop abuse support site. But I see competent adults as competent, culpable and responsible, especially for the safety of themselves and others, and they are guilty of wrongdoing and even evil when they violate that and cause sickening examples of harm, which are exactly the people you were talking about in your original post, and exactly the people others were defending as ‘ill.”Thanks for your words.

[mote.of.soul]

@wordshaker

You're welcome.

Yeah, part of what I was saying also is people often view others as competent responsible and culpable based on what they know about them. But some of them could be upto very nefarious things without anyone knowing, yet they'd still be viewed as competent and responsible etc. And that happens all the time. These are the so-called 'ordinary, normal' people everyone talks about.

[mote.of.soul]

As I say, I take a cynical view. I guess you could say I fall into the "normal is only a setting on a washing machine" camp. That's it.🙂

[wordshaker]

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

@wordshaker

You're welcome.

Yeah, part of what I was saying also is people often view others as competent responsible and culpable based on what they know about them. But some of them could be upto very nefarious things without anyone knowing, yet they'd still be viewed as competent and responsible etc. And that happens all the time. These are the so-called 'ordinary, normal' people everyone talks about.

Exactly!

[wordshaker]

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

As I say, I take a cynical view. I guess you could say I fall into the "normal is only a setting on a washing machine" camp. That's it.🙂

That’s fair. As long as hurting people doesn’t in and of itself qualify as a mental illness. I tend to splosh around like flotsam and jetsam too, sometimes on agitation and sometimes on spin cycle.

[mote.of.soul]

Hi @wordshaker

Yes, me too.🙂

And I was reading your apology in the "This pisses me off" thread which was heartfelt and real, and it's made me question my cynical beliefs about how I view the entire rest of humanity(!) in such a dim light. Although part of me - and I'll say the inner 'hurt' me - does hold those views, another part of me - and I'll call that part my "soul" or "heart" - doesn't see it that way.

Anyway, as a result of these threads, I've decided I want to be more circumspect about what kinds of views and 'karmas' I put out there - what kinds of energies. I want to grow towards the light, if you will, as part of my spiritual quest. 😌

I'm really sorry you were abused wordshaker, it's very heartbreaking and unfair in so many ways. And I want to thank you for your apology post because it hits the nail on the head for me in other relevant ways - ways I believe will lead to a better mental health.

Sending good vibes to you, my friend.

Thank you.🌠🌠🙏🙏✨

mote

[wordshaker]

Hi @mote.of.soul 💛
First I want to thank you for your openness and kind compassion. I’m sorry for your hurt and pain, unfairly inflicted and now unfairly carried. My heart goes out to you in kind. As much as I hate to admit, there is a connection between pain and compassion… even when pain feels intentionally given, which feels different in it’s unfair chosenness. And particularly in the case of abuse, patterns are set into motion… it’s the pain that keeps on giving. And we can feel robbed of certain experiences, like stable wholesome relationships that so many of us are left craving cuz someone broke something critical inside us before we had a chance. I know many of us do achieve these things, probably by accepting who and what we are, and finding there’s someone who actually can love exactly that.

But in the end it’s all somewhat random. There is pain in the human condition, this experiment. We or our spouse gets diagnosed with ALS, we’re born into this abusive family instead of that wholesome one, our lives are upended and our loved ones snatched from us in a war based on someone’s whim, purposeless, or we walk unwittingly into the web of a psychopathic liar. When we step back we are all part of the same thing with varying levels of awareness.

When you say “hits the nail on the head” I feel, maybe incorrectly, you’re gettin at something about the difference between human actions and humanity, and the fact that so many seem unaware, uncaring, grumpy in our own sphere of concerns or dissatisfaction, discourteous in even basic ways. But I believe there is a current that runs underneath all that in nearly every one of us. And that is the humanity. When we open our sense of compassion we become more aware. Gratitude plays a key role somewhere here too. It’s hard for me to include in my compassion those who seem like walking vortexes of pain, wasp nests, competent deliberate human cancer… most of them created by pain themselves, though some not. But I can accept they are part of the human condition and that I can love the whole of humanity anyway, which by nature includes them, and maybe that helps to heal the world.

I think those of us that have pain have more compassion. It’s not because our abusers, or our random bad luck, actually did something good to us. They didn’t. But something about the way we operate, possibly in the wisdom of the universe, allows pain to open something more, especially in the process of healing! And that is good. So we must all seek healing so we can have more of that, more compassion, more gratitude, and we can use that to affect the world in small but powerful ways. And we have to remember that in order to have healing we must do healing things for ourselves as well as others, we have to seek it. A small cut can cause death but it doesn’t because we do something about it. Yet so many of us have gaping wounds inside and do nothing but wait for it to heal itself. Small things, a walk in the park, a long bath, soothing the senses, a kind self thought…

I hope I’m not getting too lost in my thoughts, and it’s one thing to have a philosophy and another to enact it in the day to day. It’s damn hard and life never slows in its complexity and demands. We get lost in our own bull**** all the time and get stressed out and get overwhelmed. I do anyway. But I keep striving and find some little ways to do better, to cultivate a little more, to nurture a little more in the relationships and structure of life around me, and to heal. It sounds good but it’s very imperfect and very hard and I have to forgive myself a whole slew of failings every day. Sorry this got so long, I have a hard time expressing my deeper thoughts in concise or pithy ways. Another flaw, lol. Thx for taking the time to read it.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by wordshaker

Hi @mote.of.soul 💛
First I want to thank you for your openness and kind compassion. I’m sorry for your hurt and pain, unfairly inflicted and now unfairly carried. My heart goes out to you in kind. As much as I hate to admit, there is a connection between pain and compassion… even when pain feels intentionally given, which feels different in it’s unfair chosenness. And particularly in the case of abuse, patterns are set into motion… it’s the pain that keeps on giving. And we can feel robbed of certain experiences, like stable wholesome relationships that so many of us are left craving cuz someone broke something critical inside us before we had a chance. I know many of us do achieve these things, probably by accepting who and what we are, and finding there’s someone who actually can love exactly that.

But in the end it’s all somewhat random. There is pain in the human condition, this experiment. We or our spouse gets diagnosed with ALS, we’re born into this abusive family instead of that wholesome one, our lives are upended and our loved ones snatched from us in a war based on someone’s whim, purposeless, or we walk unwittingly into the web of a psychopathic liar. When we step back we are all part of the same thing with varying levels of awareness.

When you say “hits the nail on the head” I feel, maybe incorrectly, you’re gettin at something about the difference between human actions and humanity, and the fact that so many seem unaware, uncaring, grumpy in our own sphere of concerns or dissatisfaction, discourteous in even basic ways. But I believe there is a current that runs underneath all that in nearly every one of us. And that is the humanity. When we open our sense of compassion we become more aware. Gratitude plays a key role somewhere here too. It’s hard for me to include in my compassion those who seem like walking vortexes of pain, wasp nests, competent deliberate human cancer… most of them created by pain themselves, though some not. But I can accept they are part of the human condition and that I can love the whole of humanity anyway, which by nature includes them, and maybe that helps to heal the world.

I think those of us that have pain have more compassion. It’s not because our abusers, or our random bad luck, actually did something good to us. They didn’t. But something about the way we operate, possibly in the wisdom of the universe, allows pain to open something more, especially in the process of healing! And that is good. So we must all seek healing so we can have more of that, more compassion, more gratitude, and we can use that to affect the world in small but powerful ways. And we have to remember that in order to have healing we must do healing things for ourselves as well as others, we have to seek it. A small cut can cause death but it doesn’t because we do something about it. Yet so many of us have gaping wounds inside and do nothing but wait for it to heal itself. Small things, a walk in the park, a long bath, soothing the senses, a kind self thought…

I hope I’m not getting too lost in my thoughts, and it’s one thing to have a philosophy and another to enact it in the day to day. It’s damn hard and life never slows in its complexity and demands. We get lost in our own bull**** all the time and get stressed out and get overwhelmed. I do anyway. But I keep striving and find some little ways to do better, to cultivate a little more, to nurture a little more in the relationships and structure of life around me, and to heal. It sounds good but it’s very imperfect and very hard and I have to forgive myself a whole slew of failings every day. Sorry this got so long, I have a hard time expressing my deeper thoughts in concise or pithy ways. Another flaw, lol. Thx for taking the time to read it.

Thanks for sharing wordshaker and mote.of.soul

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by mote.of.soul

@wordshaker

You're welcome.

Yeah, part of what I was saying also is people often view others as competent responsible and culpable based on what they know about them. But some of them could be upto very nefarious things without anyone knowing, yet they'd still be viewed as competent and responsible etc. And that happens all the time. These are the so-called 'ordinary, normal' people everyone talks about.

I agree. Exactly.