[sewerrats]

This is a doctors NIGHTMARE . The truth is very high percentage are not sensitive to meds , they are scared of them yes ,but the side effects make a lot give up on med that are just plain normal. FIRST start a antidepressant and it will make you feel worse that you already feel fact. .IT can get to bad that you need to come off like seizures ect ect but hanging over the toilet being sick 24-7 is normal has is chronic diarrhoea , plus the felling someone has hit you on the back of the head with a baseball bat there all normal on start up. Weak body ,racing thoughts , spaced out, tired all day. There all normal and can last for weeks , sometime putting you to bed with side effects. its hard to go to work when first starting an AD there is a med in your head fighting depression for your brain it can get brutal. You can go back to your doc every 4 weeks and say this is not working , then he gives you a new one and off you go again, when really if you had given the first one another week it may have kicked in and worked. SO I say to all those mildly depressed don't take an AD you will become worse .They only work on real chronic depression and also chronic depressed if you carnt stand the normal brutal start up, is you depression that bad, because I would walk bare foot over broken glass for a mile if I thought it was going to work

[venusss]

DOCTOR'S nightmare? I would think that being sick for weeks and weeks is nightmare of the person experiencing it.

And I don't think the drugs are supposed to make you as sick as you describe. Diarrhorea is actually dangerous when it goes on too long. Dissociation and racing thoughts are also something to watch for, rather then something that is "normal".

So nice to share your brutal "opinion", but honestly... why judge on people for not putting up with something? Physicall sickness can make your mental issues worse. I think each and every person can determine what they are able to put up with. it's not your place to judge that they should handle it.

Saying get over side effects is the same as saying get over your issues.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

DOCTOR'S nightmare? I would think that being sick for weeks and weeks is nightmare of the person experiencing it.

And I don't think the drugs are supposed to make you as sick as you describe. Diarrhorea is actually dangerous when it goes on too long. Dissociation and racing thoughts are also something to watch for, rather then something that is "normal".

So nice to share your brutal "opinion", but honestly... why judge on people for not putting up with something? Physicall sickness can make your mental issues worse. I think each and every person can determine what they are able to put up with. it's not your place to judge that they should handle it.

Saying get over side effects is the same as saying get over your issues.

You Venus are one of he very people I am talking about , moan constantly about meds , because your not sick enough to be on then so they make you ill. Real illness is no pain no gain., Go get a herbal tea , you would argue black is white all day

With all due respect, the severe side effects you describe are not at all normal, nor should they be tolerated, and I DO take meds and yes, I have severe depression due to bipolar disorder. I'm on many meds. My pdoc would never let me suffer through those kinds of side effects. It just isn't necessary. There are options to try. People have to be able to function, go to work, parent their children, engage in relationships, and if the side effects are interfering with that ability, the meds DO need to be changed or discontinued.

[venusss]

Sewer, yes, I get badly disociative and stone after taking mild painkillers.

If a herb made me feel the **** you describe above, I would avoid it.

You, sir, have no right determine if me, or anybody is "sick enough". Degree of sickness doesn't determine drug tolerance. Some have bodies that burn off drugs easily. They could take doses that would kill Marilyn Monroe and sleep it off and woke up totally functional. Then there are people who may suffer various bothersome symptoms, but yet find little relief in drugs, because everything makes them feel 100x worse.

It's not a p!ssing constest of who is sicker and who had worse side effects. You are not a warrior hero for putting with life threatening side effects...

You say I am anti-med... but if you think you are promoting meds a s good thing you are no. SO basically I should spend weeks as dissociative puking mess with diahorrea? Yeah, sounds tempting. I am calling my doctor to prescribe me some of that dope. Must be real good.

Severe dissociation is dangerous, especially when you are already depressed. In such state one could walk under a train, without even wanting too. Diarhorrea or sickness is dangerous. Exhaustion can mean many things is not a good sign.

You pass a dangerous advice. Seriously, just because this is med forum doesn't mean it's okay to pass any advice on meds. If went to the other treatments forum and said how it's fine to smoke any random herb or that you can drink herbal tictures from a jug and it's totally safe, yo!... I would be rightly called out for passing a bad advice.

If anybody reading this is thinking this is good advice please know that psychiatric care has advanced beyond this... If it ever was standard care. If you have a doctor that is doing this sort of cycling please do yourself a favor and look for a different doctor.

Sadly I have heard this type of advice from others. These same people refuse to even hear about the millions of people successful in a whole bunch of different was. Just like sewerrats. It isn't as simple as anti med, pro med. It's about what works for the PATIENT. Patients CAN be a participant in their own treatment. Solomon in the TED talk posted yesterday said re alternative treatments... (Paraphrase) if the depression treatment makes you happier then it is working.

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[Hellion]

I personally could care less about physical side effects, unless its actually life threatening. My main concern is becoming suicidal if the medication makes me feel worse mentally...which has happened. The only anti-depressant I had to quit after just two weeks was wellbutrin because it was causing me visual distortions, lack of coordination and making me far more anxious and unstable so the psychiatrist took me off it.

Aside from that I always give it a good few weeks...but still have had worsened symptoms even after the side effects should diminish. I wouldn't say reacting badly to meds to treat depression means one doesn't have severe depression...after all the same treatments don't work for everyone.

I'd agree if one is mildly depressed but can still manage and its not really interfering in their life then anti-depressants probably are not the right choice...a bit of therapy would probably work better for someone like that.

But yeah I do kinda fail to see how being sensitive to meds, means someone isn't significantly depressed...tolerance and the bodies ability to process a drug has nothing to do with whether or not you have an illness. Then there are people that are sensitive to some types of meds but not others.

[nottrustin]

I wish those are the only symptoms I have deal with...One sleep medication cased me to sleep walk outside, one medication gave me horrible blurred vision because of rapid blinking which required me to have botox injections in my eyes a couple of times then we realized the issue was the medication I stopped and a couple of days later my eyes were back to normal, wellbutrin caused me to lose a ton of weight I do still take it could understand why others couldn't. Lorazepam I can take occasionally but I took one tablet for 4 nights in a row...I became so confused that just reading a recipe was to much for me.

[sewerrats]

Common side effects of citalopram include drowsiness, insomnia, nausea, weight changes, vivid dreaming, frequent urination, decreased sex drive, anorgasmia, dry mouth,[1] increased sweating, trembling, diarrhea, excessive yawning, and fatigue. Less common side effects include bruxism, vomiting, cardiac arrhythmia, blood pressure changes, dilated pupils, anxiety, mood swings, headache and dizziness. Rare side effects include convulsions, hallucinations,severe allergic reactions.[1] and photosensitivity. If sedation occurs, the dose may be taken at bedtime rather than in the morning. There is data suggesting that citalopram may cause nightmares.[40]//////////////
THESE ARE COMMON side effects you can expect , from SSRI,S I didn't write this it came of the leaflet for the med , I don't make it up these are normal on start up hasn't anybody read the med leaflets before, or do you just run to your doctor for every thing, you may get none of these you may get a few its all part of start up .

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Sewer, yes, I get badly disociative and stone after taking mild painkillers.

If a herb made me feel the **** you describe above, I would avoid it.

You, sir, have no right determine if me, or anybody is "sick enough". Degree of sickness doesn't determine drug tolerance. Some have bodies that burn off drugs easily. They could take doses that would kill Marilyn Monroe and sleep it off and woke up totally functional. Then there are people who may suffer various bothersome symptoms, but yet find little relief in drugs, because everything makes them feel 100x worse.

It's not a p!ssing constest of who is sicker and who had worse side effects. You are not a warrior hero for putting with life threatening side effects...

You say I am anti-med... but if you think you are promoting meds a s good thing you are no. SO basically I should spend weeks as dissociative puking mess with diahorrea? Yeah, sounds tempting. I am calling my doctor to prescribe me some of that dope. Must be real good.

Severe dissociation is dangerous, especially when you are already depressed. In such state one could walk under a train, without even wanting too. Diarhorrea or sickness is dangerous. Exhaustion can mean many things is not a good sign.

You pass a dangerous advice. Seriously, just because this is med forum doesn't mean it's okay to pass any advice on meds. If went to the other treatments forum and said how it's fine to smoke any random herb or that you can drink herbal tictures from a jug and it's totally safe, yo!... I would be rightly called out for passing a bad advice.

Marilyn Monroe was killed by a CIA drug overdose , and if you read my threads properly you will see I try to put more off meds that take them. AGAIN I will tell you listen this time, only the seriously depressed should take meds

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

With all due respect, the severe side effects you describe are not at all normal, nor should they be tolerated, and I DO take meds and yes, I have severe depression due to bipolar disorder. I'm on many meds. My pdoc would never let me suffer through those kinds of side effects. It just isn't necessary. There are options to try. People have to be able to function, go to work, parent their children, engage in relationships, and if the side effects are interfering with that ability, the meds DO need to be changed or discontinued.

OFF COURSE when the med starts working you can do all the things you say, would you not go through a 6 week bad start up to be well after. Before you took the med you may have had a breakdown, you may have been under the bed covers for weeks, and depression makes me vomit and gives crippling gut pains , plus head pain migraines ,and dizziness , or am I the only one . All these things may with look go away after 6 weeks on meds , but you may have to suffer a little more to get there, THEN THE SUN COMES OUT

Originally Posted by sewerrats

Common side effects of citalopram include drowsiness, insomnia, nausea, weight changes, vivid dreaming, frequent urination, decreased sex drive, anorgasmia, dry mouth,[1] increased sweating, trembling, diarrhea, excessive yawning, and fatigue. Less common side effects include bruxism, vomiting, cardiac arrhythmia, blood pressure changes, dilated pupils, anxiety, mood swings, headache and dizziness. Rare side effects include convulsions, hallucinations,severe allergic reactions.[1] and photosensitivity. If sedation occurs, the dose may be taken at bedtime rather than in the morning. There is data suggesting that citalopram may cause nightmares.[40]//////////////

THESE ARE COMMON side effects you can expect , from SSRI,S I didn't write this it came of the leaflet for the med , I don't make it up these are normal on start up hasn't anybody read the med leaflets before, or do you just run to your doctor for every thing, you may get none of these you may get a few its all part of start up .

"Common" doesn't mean frequent nor doesn't it tell you about intensity or tolerance. The purpose of talking to your doctor is to figure out if it is reasonable to stick it out. It is not reasonable for somebody who is emotionally sensitive to weight gain or loss to be on a med the causes weight gain or loss. That just increases the depression. It is not reasonable to me to be on a med that causes extreme apathy or cognitive impairment particularly if it causes me to loose interest in my art. My art is often the only thing that keeps me going. Taking that away is detrimental.

You are suggesting that anyone who "needs" an AD stick it out without going to the doctor for a month. AD's were created to help people go back to work quickly. (Read your history.) If the AD is impairing your ability to work it has failed.

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[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

I personally could care less about physical side effects, unless its actually life threatening. My main concern is becoming suicidal if the medication makes me feel worse mentally...which has happened. The only anti-depressant I had to quit after just two weeks was wellbutrin because it was causing me visual distortions, lack of coordination and making me far more anxious and unstable so the psychiatrist took me off it.

Aside from that I always give it a good few weeks...but still have had worsened symptoms even after the side effects should diminish. I wouldn't say reacting badly to meds to treat depression means one doesn't have severe depression...after all the same treatments don't work for everyone.

I'd agree if one is mildly depressed but can still manage and its not really interfering in their life then anti-depressants probably are not the right choice...a bit of therapy would probably work better for someone like that.

But yeah I do kinda fail to see how being sensitive to meds, means someone isn't significantly depressed...tolerance and the bodies ability to process a drug has nothing to do with whether or not you have an illness. Then there are people that are sensitive to some types of meds but not others.

TRUE you don't carry on a med and kill yourself to prove a point, and of course some are sensitive to meds , they will read at the bottom of the med page what sign,s to look for. SORRY a good %are not depressed at all , not mildly depressed, they have read themselves into thinking they are, and present the doctor with a well read symptom list , they take a med and they now do get ill , you wouldn't take pain killers if not in pain.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

Common side effects of citalopram include drowsiness, insomnia, nausea, weight changes, vivid dreaming, frequent urination, decreased sex drive, anorgasmia, dry mouth,[1] increased sweating, trembling, diarrhea, excessive yawning, and fatigue. Less common side effects include bruxism, vomiting, cardiac arrhythmia, blood pressure changes, dilated pupils, anxiety, mood swings, headache and dizziness. Rare side effects include convulsions, hallucinations,severe allergic reactions.[1] and photosensitivity. If sedation occurs, the dose may be taken at bedtime rather than in the morning. There is data suggesting that citalopram may cause nightmares.[40]//////////////
THESE ARE COMMON side effects you can expect , from SSRI,S I didn't write this it came of the leaflet for the med , I don't make it up these are normal on start up hasn't anybody read the med leaflets before, or do you just run to your doctor for every thing, you may get none of these you may get a few its all part of start up .

So if you get insomnia from new med, you are just supposed to suck it up and not sleep?

Blood pressure changes can be a dangerous side effect too.

MOODSWINGS? WHY WOULD I TAKE MED THAT GIVES ME MOODSWINGS! I already have them! Should I puke and faint through them too (wait... I am already prone to fainting like 19th century novel heroine...).

See, they called side effects for reason. Because they... undesirable. You don't have to tolerate them if you can't tolerate them!

(also, photosensitivity is a ***** of a side effect and I got it from a HERB. Guess what I stopped taking it (started taking in different form which does not cause this).

And again, you can die from diarrhea that lasts too long.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

Marilyn Monroe was killed by a CIA drug overdose , and if you read my threads properly you will see I try to put more off meds that take them. AGAIN I will tell you listen this time, only the seriously depressed should take meds

That is not what i am saying. But even the most seriously depressed deserve and can get better then putting throuhg LIFE THREATENING side effects.

it's possible to find relief (yes, even in medicine) that is not a walk through hell.

My least favorite side effect was on a med that lowered my blood pressure so suddenly I kept passing out. Not a side effect I could tolerate.

Yes, mild side effects can be tolerated. Lithium makes me really thirstly. That's a side effect that actually never goes away for me, but I can deal with that. However, geodon sedates me to the point that my speech slurs and I fall asleep in a second, making it dangerous to even drive. Should I continue passing out or falling asleep while driving for six weeks just in case the side effect goes away? Of course not.

It isn't a matter of how depressed a person is. It is a matter of what side effects are tolerable and what side effects absolutely cannot be tolerated for even a short amount of time.

Seweratts, you are thinking on a far too black and white scale. You are saying everyone should tolerate side effects because they will go away, but you are ignoring the fact that some side effects don't go away and are completely intolerable from the get go. You are also passing a random judgment on the severity of depression being a factor. The problem is, you are addressing this to an audience that most likely fits that definition of severely depressed or for the most part we wouldn't be here. Don't pass judgment on this audience. I suspect you wouldn't get so much negative feedback.

There is no proof that Marilyn Monroe was killed by the CIA. It was either the mafia or bobbie Kennedy or al Qaeda! […]

You aren't tolerant when it comes to major depression. There are many people who leave the system and heal in other ways. And there are many people who stay in the system and find they need to supplement their med treatment with alternative treatments and then ultimately leave having healed. And of course there are all those studies that can't prove the effectiveness of AD'S altogether for many people.

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[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Michanne

"Common" doesn't mean frequent nor doesn't it tell you about intensity or tolerance. The purpose of talking to your doctor is to figure out if it is reasonable to stick it out. It is not reasonable for somebody who is emotionally sensitive to weight gain or loss to be on a med the causes weight gain or loss. That just increases the depression. It is not reasonable to me to be on a med that causes extreme apathy or cognitive impairment particularly if it causes me to loose interest in my art. My art is often the only thing that keeps me going. Taking that away is detrimental.

You are suggesting that anyone who "needs" an AD stick it out without going to the doctor for a month. AD's were created to help people go back to work quickly. (Read your history.) If the AD is impairing your ability to work it has failed.

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OFF we go again this is start up on meds, not long term , all the side effects if you get them at start will disappear to a degree. But weight gain and sex problems don't I am afraid. I am 2 stone over weight with meds ,but its that or dead, I already eat healthy and exercise: rolleyes: CHRONIC DEPRESSION if not controlled is hard to get out of bed never mind work , I worked all my life but retired early at 59 with doctors orders, held together with a minimum of meds for years, without them I would not be able to have gone to work. In CHRONIC DEPRESSION I could not see a hand in front of me, meds cleared the fog in my brain so I could work

Originally Posted by sewerrats

OFF we go again this is start up on meds, not long term , all the side effects if you get them at start will disappear to a degree. But weight gain and sex problems don't I am afraid. I am 2 stone over weight with meds ,but its that or dead, I already eat healthy and exercise: rolleyes: CHRONIC DEPRESSION if not controlled is hard to get out of bed never mind work , I worked all my life but retired early at 59 with doctors orders, held together with a minimum of meds for years, without them I would not be able to have gone to work. In CHRONIC DEPRESSION I could not see a hand in front of me, meds cleared the fog in my brain so I could work

Until you can be empathic to other people's needs you can't properly advise someone else different then yourself. Emotional consequences of something that is nothing to you may be death to somebody else. I cannot stress enough the importance of hearing that different people have needs and experiences that don't match yours.

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[sewerrats]

I gave a list of side effects to expect, I didn't give you a list of the worst , the severity of the side effects can be bad so I said give in on that med or all meds. The point I am making is if you cannot hack the basic side effects dont take a med . There is the a big difference without you twisting every post to suit yourself just for the pure hell of it . Anyone knows what I am saying at its not what what your making up in your own heads.

[venusss]

Yeah, but sure you didn't get extreme blood pressure fluctations, dissocation and other listed side effects. In that case, the drugs ain't working.

What people here have problem is not the notion drugs work, but the notion you have to suffer through ANY side effects, if you are "really ill". Point is, you don't.

Originally Posted by sewerrats

I gave a list of side effects to expect, I didn't give you a list of the worst , the severity of the side effects can be bad so I said give in on that med or all meds. The point I am making is if you cannot hack the basic side effects dont take a med . There is the a big difference without you twisting every post to suit yourself just for the pure hell of it . Anyone knows what I am saying at its not what what your making up in your own heads.

I cannot stress enough the importance of hearing that different people have needs and experiences that don't match yours.

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[venusss]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

I gave a list of side effects to expect, I didn't give you a list of the worst , the severity of the side effects can be bad so I said give in on that med or all meds. The point I am making is if you cannot hack the basic side effects dont take a med . There is the a big difference without you twisting every post to suit yourself just for the pure hell of it . Anyone knows what I am saying at its not what what your making up in your own heads.

again, they call it SIDE EFFECTS, because they are undesired.

and some can be LIFE THREATENING or seriously borthersome.

"Anyone knows what I am saying at its not what what your making up in your own heads."

Shaming people into submission won't work either.

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[Hellion]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

TRUE you don't carry on a med and kill yourself to prove a point, and of course some are sensitive to meds , they will read at the bottom of the med page what sign,s to look for. SORRY a good %are not depressed at all , not mildly depressed, they have read themselves into thinking they are, and present the doctor with a well read symptom list , they take a med and they now do get ill , you wouldn't take pain killers if not in pain.

I do see what your saying, I think it reflects society being overly medicated. I think there are a lot of people on meds that may not need to be...I of course can't judge anyone over the internet but yeah there are lots of doctors who will perscribe a depression med just if someone is a little bit down on their luck...people who watch t.v are constantly bombarded with ads with the message 'feeling a little down?' 'well talk to your doctor about starting this AD today.' So I think some impressionable people might end up taking regular sadness for 'depression' and trying to get meds. Do you get aggressive 'take this med' ads on t.v in England? Curious because I know some countries don't really have that sort of advertising for psych meds.

But yeah depression meds increase seratonin, if someone already has a healthy level of that then its going to cause more problems than it helps.