Psychiatric Med Cocktails

Apr 07, 2014, 02:04 PM

I thought autism was more about being comfortable with objects than humans. That would make somebody seem to lack empathy but it doesn't make it so. I don't think they a really on the same spectrum as sociopaths(?).

I have a hard time believing there are people that are truly evil until I get deep into what they have done. If never met anybody like that so I am really talking about reading survivor stories. Sort of like "I have to mentally experience it to believe it". Hitler and pol pot could not have done what they did without compliance and agreement on a mass scale. That implies other people have to be evil to commit those acts. People behave vastly different in war too. I'm sure the victims see them as "evil" but the families would not to the point of denial. I'd think you'd have to be in denial to live with somebody that committed acts like that.

Jim Jones also needed compliance but more in the form of brain washing and denial and isolation. But the diff is he knew everybody involved. Maybe he was an example of pure evil. I can't imagine he could have been treated.

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Hellion · Apr 07, 2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

I don't think you can insinuate that I want to lock up all the crazies. I said it was my hope that these cases would bring more awareness and less stigma to mental illness and hopefully more understanding and more help. I happen to think anyone who commits murder or rape or molests a child does have some form of mental illness. So in a sense yes blame the illness. That doesn't mean I think it is a defense or that people are not responsible for their actions. It is true that abusers were most often abused themselves. I am certainly not an expert on the psychology of crime and punishment but you can't really say the prison system does anything to help people, that it has any compassion. All it does is breed hardened criminals. Someone who is a teenager gets in a gang and deals drugs and then gets caught up in the criminal justice system is basically screwed for life. Maybe there is a way the justice system could help that kid before the prison system turns him into a hardened criminal in the shoe in Pelican Bay.

I certainly don't advocate forced treatments and that whole movement. That is just crazy talk in my opinion. I do advocate more understanding and more help. And more research on what will help more effectively.

For the anti med crowd to blame it on the meds is almost as bad as the forced treatment crowd trampling on human rights.

I just don't think its true that someone has to be mentally ill to commit those crimes...I think its a big problem that in society it seems thought that only mentally ill people are capable of terrible things when actually even a normal person with no mental problems can be capable of terrible things its dangerous to think they can't and push it all on the mentally ill. Also I am not so sure most abusers were abused themselves I'd have to look that up and refresh my memory.

On that same note I think if a mental illness does play a significant role in someones crime...that needs to be taken into account and in some cases the person should get psychiatric treatment rather than a prison sentence...I am all for personal responsibility but I know there are situations where I can freak out and lose control of myself in a fight or flight panic mode...and being treated as a criminal for it wouldn't do me or anyone any good. I am obviously talking about something that happens when in the midst of a panic attack or other state of mind where you can't think straight and lack impulse control and are reacting as though you are in danger...not something like rape or child molestation as far as I know those aren't things people just suddenly do on a whim and are more about abuse/power in which the person chooses to hurt others.

Hellion · Apr 07, 2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I thought autism was more about being comfortable with objects than humans. That would make somebody seem to lack empathy but it doesn't make it so. I don't think they a really on the same spectrum as sociopaths(?).

Its not really about that per say, if I was around only objects all day I'd get lonely probably I do actually like to be in the presence of people I am close to. Its more trouble with social interaction, having obsessive interests that can be hyperfocused on, sensory issues like being more sensitive to input from the senses and at least in my case difficulty processing thoughts, directions ect.

As for the lack of empathy I don't really feel I lack it, I don't always understand how someone else might feel but I don't think I am entirely clueless in every senerio...that does have to do with learning about people though. But yes obviously due to my brain functioning differently I can't quite put myself in the shoes of someone without autism anymore than they can put themselves in my shoes. Not sure it amounts to a lack of empathy though...

Apr 07, 2014, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellion

Its not really about that per say, if I was around only objects all day I'd get lonely probably I do actually like to be in the presence of people I am close to. Its more trouble with social interaction, having obsessive interests that can be hyperfocused on, sensory issues like being more sensitive to input from the senses and at least in my case difficulty processing thoughts, directions ect.

As for the lack of empathy I don't really feel I lack it, I don't always understand how someone else might feel but I don't think I am entirely clueless in every senerio...that does have to do with learning about people though. But yes obviously due to my brain functioning differently I can't quite put myself in the shoes of someone without autism anymore than they can put themselves in my shoes. Not sure it amounts to a lack of empathy though...

Thanks for the clarification. I think I see what you mean. I think you can get into the dirt with someone's emotions without being in their shoes. I can understand somebody's pain even when it is something I could never experience. Like when there is a philosophical or religious difference. I'm never going to be devote in such in such but I can still understand their pain. It's learned though.

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Jolisse · Apr 07, 2014, 03:25 PM

There is something wrong with any person who can take a life. I don't know if it's mental illness or something else. Many times the person who has committed the crime, has had a terrible life.
Maybe it's like "the perfect storm" that comes together. You have a person who's been abused and add in genetic factors and they blow. A lot of the school shootings were done by kids that were bullied and shunned by others. Take the environmental factor and add the geneics and you have a walking time bomb.

-jimi- · Apr 07, 2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I'm sorry, the way I wrote my post sounded wrong and I just edited it

Sorry if I offended you at all.

Waah, noo, don't feel a need to edit. I wasn't offended, sorry if I gave that impression, didn't mean to.

-jimi- · Apr 07, 2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I thought autism was more about being comfortable with objects than humans. That would make somebody seem to lack empathy but it doesn't make it so. I don't think they a really on the same spectrum as sociopaths(?).

The biggest difference between sociopaths and aspies I think is that sociopaths are generally very good at social cues, all too good at reading people. I wish I could always be a text based person because text has no facial expression or tone of voice except smileys and caps. LOL.

I've really started to question the concept of empathy altogether, for me I think it is more about sympathy and compassion and shifting views. I'm actually better than average taking someone else's perspective. So it can be done without feeling sympathy.

I notice quite a few aspies who are depressed are because they are lonely. Yet again I feel different, I like being alone. But maybe because I have friends, then it is easy to indulge in your alone time.

I'm very attached to animals. I do feel for them. I can also read their body language in ways I can't with people. I guess it is similar to what people feel about other people. I must say I'm blessed then, because I only have a few furry friends to worry about, but people are everywhere!

Of course there are textbook aspies who prefer being alone and things before people, but I haven't really met any. But then again... how would I have come across them? LOL.

Lauliza · Apr 07, 2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I thought autism was more about being comfortable with objects than humans. That would make somebody seem to lack empathy but it doesn't make it so. I don't think they a really on the same spectrum as sociopaths(?).

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People with severe autism don't connect emotionally with people and yes you would say they're more comfortable with objects than humans. They are also usually non verbal. Higher functioning autism or Aspergers is different in that they have normal or excellent verbal skills but still lack the social understanding needed to connect with people. They feel emotions very strongly, but have trouble understanding and articulating them.

A sociopath is very different. They understand people and emotions very well. The can have excellent social skills. But they sincerely just dont care. They are narcissists to the extreme, they have no regard at all for the rights of other people.

Lauliza · Apr 07, 2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimi...

I've really started to question the concept of empathy altogether, for me I think it is more about sympathy and compassion and shifting views. I'm actually better than average taking someone else's perspective. So it can be done without feeling sympathy.

.

I remember the test they gave my daughter to explain the "empathy" component of the disorder.

The scenario is of 2 children in a room with a toy. Kid #1 takes the toy and puts it in the toybox. Kid #2 sees this, and then leaves the room. While child #2 is gone, child 1 opens the toybox and removes the toy moves it to under the bed.

So child #2 comes back in the room, and goes to look for the toy. The question for my daughter was, where does child #2 go first to look for the toy? The answer is in the toybox. Kids with an autism disorder consistenly give a different answer though - they'll tend to answer under the bed. It sounds too simplistic but for a child with Aspergers, it is the only answer that makes sense.

sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 03:59 AM

You don't have to be mentally ill all your life, ANYONE ANY TIME can just flip . they may have been the coolest person ever before. Often people who new a person that does a hideous crime or murder ,will say he her she was the sweetest person . But if the lights goes out in your brain one day and there nobody in

Altered Moment · Apr 08, 2014, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewerrats

You don't have to be mentally ill all your life, ANYONE ANY TIME can just flip . they may have been the coolest person ever before. Often people who new a person that does a hideous crime or murder ,will say he her she was the sweetest person . But if the lights goes out in your brain one day and there nobody in

But why do the lights in their brain suddenly go out and they just flip? Something is wrong. Maybe it is not mental illness. But maybe it is some illness we just have not named yet, or some brain disorder. or some ****. I want to know why...what happened in that brain.

sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

But why do the lights in their brain suddenly go out and they just flip? Something is wrong. Maybe it is not mental illness. But maybe it is some illness we just have not named yet, or some brain disorder. or some ****. I want to know why...what happened in that brain.

What does happen to any major organ , that working fine one day and not the next .

Apr 08, 2014, 08:07 AM

I think anyone can become violent under the right stressors but I don't think that is usually a "flip" and I don't think anybody can flip. I have seen my behavior change due to cold turkey withdrawal but nothing like real violence towards anybody. It did give me some insight into how somebody could react under tremendous pressure. Any case I have read about has had cues even if they aren't obvious at the time. What might look like a "flip" is probably not. Even animals need some sort of stressor.

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Altered Moment · Apr 08, 2014, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewerrats

What does happen to any major organ , that working fine one day and not the next .

Well they know a hell of a lot more about major organs and why they fail and how to treat it. If your kidneys suddenly stop working or you have chronic kidney disease they can figure out why. Fairly well understood and you get dialysis or if you are lucky a kidney transplant. Same it true for the heart and so on.

The brain is totally different. They don't really understand **** about it.

sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I think anyone can become violent under the right stressors but I don't think that is usually a "flip" and I don't think anybody can flip. I have seen my behavior change due to cold turkey withdrawal but nothing like real violence towards anybody. It did give me some insight into how somebody could react under tremendous pressure. Any case I have read about has had cues even if they aren't obvious at the time. What might look like a "flip" is probably not. Even animals need some sort of stressor.

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I flipped and tried to kill myself , and nobody has the slightest idea it was going to happen. I just went down stairs to make a drink I said to the family.Then took multiple effexor boxes of tabs , drank a bottle of brandy and crept into the spare bedroom , I sat up in bed no goodbye notes or **** like that and waited. Suddenly the hole boxes of tabs were vomited all over the walls, I NEVER BROKE 1 CAPSUL OPEN in my gut. All hell broke loose im blue lighted to the general a-e 2 pints of liquid charcoal made to drink.I don't advice it , you **** black for weeks it comes out your nose urine the works. TIME FOR A STAY IN THE ZOO so see you can flip anytime

Altered Moment · Apr 08, 2014, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I think anyone can become violent under the right stressors but I don't think that is usually a "flip" and I don't think anybody can flip. I have seen my behavior change due to cold turkey withdrawal but nothing like real violence towards anybody. It did give me some insight into how somebody could react under tremendous pressure. Any case I have read about has had cues even if they aren't obvious at the time. What might look like a "flip" is probably not. Even animals need some sort of stressor.

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I guess that's true in come cases. Like all the people on Wall Street who jumped out of windows when the stock market crashed 1929. They couldn't take the financial failure or being broke or whatever. Financial issues are a huge trigger for me.

Apr 08, 2014, 08:45 AM

Why was Effexor in the house? Were you taking it?
Your family didn't know but that doesn't mean you don't have an idea.

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Altered Moment · Apr 08, 2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewerrats

I flipped and tried to kill myself , and nobody has the slightest idea it was going to happen. I just went down stairs to make a drink I said to the family.Then took multiple effexor boxes of tabs , drank a bottle of brandy and crept into the spare bedroom , I sat up in bed no goodbye notes or **** like that and waited. Suddenly the hole boxes of tabs were vomited all over the walls, I NEVER BROKE 1 CAPSUL OPEN in my gut. All hell broke loose im blue lighted to the general a-e 2 pints of liquid charcoal made to drink.I don't advice it , you **** black for weeks it comes out your nose urine the works. TIME FOR A STAY IN THE ZOO so see you can flip anytime

Why did you flip though? There has to be a reason. Good thing you can't really kill your self on AD's. I tried with 30 - 45 mg tabs of Remeron. Never vomited. I just went to sleep. I kinda knew it wouldn't do the job but I wasn't sure. You could say it was a half *** attempt. I was in a pretty dark hole and half *** or not pretty scary and dangerous.

I slept for like three days straight and finally woke up to my boss beating on my door. I never went to the hospital and didn't tell anyone for a long time. Finally I at least told my boss. Then a bunch more years before I was able to talk about it and admit it to pdocs.

Lauliza · Apr 08, 2014, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

I think anyone can become violent under the right stressors but I don't think that is usually a "flip" and I don't think anybody can flip. I have seen my behavior change due to cold turkey withdrawal but nothing like real violence towards anybody. It did give me some insight into how somebody could react under tremendous pressure. Any case I have read about has had cues even if they aren't obvious at the time. What might look like a "flip" is probably not. Even animals need some sort of stressor.

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I agree. I think many times people appear to be very "normal" but when you did deeper, there were warning signs everywhere. It's just that nobody saw them.

sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

Why was Effexor in the house? Were you taking it?
Your family didn't know but that doesn't mean you don't have an idea.

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Effexor was my med at that time 300mg , i thought we were talking people that snap, do you think i wanted to leave my wife and kids and grandkids all on there own the people that love me. I SNAPPED i didn't know or care what was happening. Something in your brain says enough, then its out your hands

sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Why did you flip though? There has to be a reason. Good thing you can't really kill your self on AD's. I tried with 30 - 45 mg tabs of Remeron. Never vomited. I just went to sleep. I kinda knew it wouldn't do the job but I wasn't sure. You could say it was a half *** attempt. I was in a pretty dark hole and half *** or not pretty scary and dangerous.

I slept for like three days straight and finally woke up to my boss beating on my door. I never went to the hospital and didn't tell anyone for a long time. Finally I at least told my boss. Then a bunch more years before I was able to talk about it and admit it to pdocs.

3 months supply of 300mg Effexor and a bottle of brandy would have done the job why would I use meds that wouldn't, it was no cry for help I was long past that. The first thing asked at A-E how many have they took, if its a cry for help dose you outa there has fast has they can get you. The A-E NURSES hate with a passion cry for helper,s they are taking them away from the real patients has they put it/

Apr 08, 2014, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewerrats

Effexor was my med at that time 300mg , i thought we were talking people that snap, do you think i wanted to leave my wife and kids and grandkids all on there own the people that love me. I SNAPPED i didn't know or care what was happening. Something in your brain says enough, then its out your hands

You wrote anyone can flip at anytime and that they do not need to be mentally ill. You were taking Effexor at the time which implies you were under treatment. A rare side effect of ADs includes suicide or suicide attempts. I have no idea what a therapeutic dose is for that med but if you are willing to tolerate some pretty bad side effects which you have indicated then I would wonder if the dose was too high. That's just speculation. IMO it is impossible to rule out Effexor or MI as a stressor. You aren't a good example of someone who flipped without any stressor or MI

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Apr 08, 2014, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I agree. I think many times people appear to be very "normal" but when you did deeper, there were warning signs everywhere. It's just that nobody saw them.

Or nobody thought they were warning signs. People are amazingly talented at avoidance.

I think columbine is a perfect example of that.

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sewerrats · Apr 08, 2014, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michanne

You wrote anyone can flip at anytime and that they do not need to be mentally ill. You were taking Effexor at the time which implies you were under treatment. A rare side effect of ADs includes suicide or suicide attempts. I have no idea what a therapeutic dose is for that med but if you are willing to tolerate some pretty bad side effects which you have indicated then I would wonder if the dose was too high. That's just speculation. IMO it is impossible to rule out Effexor or MI as a stressor. You aren't a good example of someone who flipped without any stressor or MI

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correct it was a fairly high dose , but so is a ltr of vodka , there are thousands walking with brain aneurysm that could blow any second whos to say what they may do has there brain goes into melt down. Think about it.

Apr 08, 2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sewerrats

correct it was a fairly high dose , but so is a ltr of vodka , there are thousands walking with brain aneurysm that could blow any second whos to say what they may do has there brain goes into melt down. Think about it.

Then you are going back on your original statement?

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