Fat?

I named my worries, which are real too and not just global shtuff. Geopolitics concern me because i have friends over there in Ukraine and I worry bout them. And I am a worrier in general.

I am glad meds help you, but please, stop pretending they "prevent ALL DISEASES". That is just not true.

Driving or flying across the country is fun to me. I love wandering around strange towns solo with my camera or camera phone. So should I judge you for finding it so stressful you stay on 85? No, of course not. So why are you doing the same for those that are concerned about weight and side effects? Not to speak for Venus but I do believe she doubted it would help >her<. If the side effects are intolerable it probably would not help.

This is getting pretty defensive. Can we respect each other choices? I thought this was a good thread for understanding why people make the choices they do. Let's not get this shut down


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am not pretending they prevent all diseases. I said that was a total exaggeration on my part. Hyperbole. If Geopolitics and global stuff causes you worry and you are a person that worries a lot then that is very real stress for you. Very valid. My sister in law is exactly the same way. She will not watch the news or watch politics because she knows it is bad for her health. She focuses on what she can have an impact locally in her community and that works for her.

I would never tell someone that if meds make them gain weight and they don't like it they should stay on them or that they are vain. Never said anything remotely close to that.

I am very glad that you have found a way to live your daily life and deal with your stress without meds. I truly am. I do not know of your problems or mental illness or how serious, but I am sure whatever it is it is very real to you and I honor the way you have chose to deal with it.

I honor and respect Michannes goal of getting off of them. A great goal.

But to not disparage us who choose to take meds and are helped by them.

My current situation- money, lack of income, huge stress, I am very fortunate to have a family so I am safe and secure otherwise I would be homeless. My mental and emotional ability to fly across the country, fix my car, and drive it 2500 miles across the county with my daughter to allow her to spend the summer working on my brothers farm here in Michigan and to spend a lot of time with her. I will pull it off but I am stressing about it big time. If it were not for my current set of meds no way would it be possible. I am cashing in my retirement 401k to ease the burden on my parents and to make this trip possible. I am sharing this experience to point out that for me it would not be possible if it were not for my current set of meds. My experience is what I know best so I tend to share it. May not seem like a lot to some but given I have spent the last 15 of 20 months is severe suicidal depression it is huge for me.

I will totally agree with you that in America we are fortunate to have freedom and choice. And that we are the ones that have created this lifestyle and we are responsible to change it and change what we value. Believe it or not this is happening. People are choosing to dump the rat race in favor of or more simple life style. I agree a much more simple life style is much more preferable. I would prefer it and actually am creating it for myself if even by force and circumstances beyond my control. Namely depression and anxiety.

I may be off topic but I am still talking about stess. Meds may help and reduce stress and they also may cause more stress. If gaining weight causes stress and health issues but are effective it may not be worth the trade off. That is a very individual decision.

I talked about statin drugs. I probably made up my mind a year ago when my psych nurse suggested it. I used these forums to argue with myself and share what I am going through.

I don't want to take another med, I really don't. I don't want to take psyche meds. I don't want to have depression and anxiety, I don't want to have hypertension, I don't want stress and have my current situation. I don't want to weigh the trade offs of side effects vs benefits.

But I have to weigh the reality of my whole life and all the factors and make some kind of rational decision. That is what we all are forced to do. To figure out what works for us.
And if it is different for someone else to honor their decisions.

Sorry to hog the thread and SisterRags can scold me for it if she wants to.

Where in the world have I judged anyone for choosing to not take a med for weight gain. I have never said a word about someone staying on a med even if they have side effects unacceptable to them. It is their choice and I honor it.

In my most recent post I said I honored Venus for her choices. I actually have tremendous respect for her choices and am impressed that she has figured out how to do it without meds.

I said I honored your choice to try to get off meds. It was a good goal.

My most recent line I believe was that we should all honor each others choices and whatever people figure out works for them. It is very difficult to figure out. I share my experience because it is mine for whatever value it may have.

I indeed meant my situation.

I mean, with some of the things that are there for me... I can't really deal without becoming cynical and apathetic. Would that be worth for me to become gain weight and lose hair? For me, it's hell no. It wouldn't give me more resourcefulness that might save me.

Lots to think about in this thread. I wonder to what level is this cultural (I am definitelly Eastern european on the edges).

So basically just because someone is not going through something as terrible as you have experienced or your friends (or live where a war is happening) then they are not allowed to complain, feel stressed or something like that? I understand there is always a worse situation, it can always be much worse but that doesn't mean what person feels or stresses about is not real. The last thing someone with mental illness needs is guilt for having these feelings because other people have it worse. They have enough guilt as it is.

It isn't always as simple as picking up, moving, changing your life, especially with mental illness. I believe I agree with what Zinco said above, what stresses you is valid, and what stresses other people is also valid.

My medication definitely helps me handle stress better and in the end I think that is better for me. It helps me solve my problems and make better choices for my life.

I am reacting to statement that somebody would take psychmeds even without any psych issues because "life in California is stressful".

aka this

You are allowed to complain, and be stressed but you gotta see the things in perspective. Read what I actually said.

I don't think she was very serious about that statement. Exaggeration, hyperbole. I would hope she wouldn't take psyche meds or street drugs to deal with stress. She was just pointing out how stressful it is in CA, I am assuming for her.

Yes, Abilify and Prozac - they do what they should (only need to titrate when stress level changes).

I don't know. Lot of outrageous statements have been said with indication of them being humorous or exaggerated.

It's hard to see sarcasm in written form... especially when the said "exaggeration" is first defended (yes, ALL diseases, excellent posting and YES, life in Cali is stressful cause of jobs and traffic).

I am not sure exactly what you mean there, but I can tell you that you are not alone in what I perceive your views are. I have met many many people in CA that refuse to take any meds, psyche or otherwise, and will only take herbs. They advocate a very simple life and do the best they can to create it for themselves. The reject the American stressful rat race and think it should be changed. This movement has been going on since the sixties in CA and is spreading throughout the country. It may have been on the edge but is becoming more mainstream.

It is a much simpler life here in northern Michigan and has always been. It is very rural and much beautiful nature here. People in general do a lot outdoors and we love our nature and beautiful environment and the great lakes. Very cold all winter and they are long but many people think it is worth it because of the small town and simple life style. I will stay because it is my roots and I love it.

I knew a guy in CA who was a biochemist. He has spent the latter years of his life studying the properties of herbs and algae and bacteria. His diet is totally based on it. He approached it in a very scientific and studied way because he is a biochemist. I could never really argue with him because he was so knowledgeable. I believe him. How realistic is it that I will adopt it and grow my own algae and juice all the time, I dunno. I may at some point. The vast majority of the people at this particular coffee shop shared the same views. It was really just the nature of the clientele at that coffee shop but it is not uncommon.

"And seriously... CALIFORNIA? Try Syria. Try any places low on HDI charts. Try ****ing Slavjansk.... (not just now... it sucked before too...). Try any place with more and more real problems then California. And it's not like you have to buy fake passport and run through snipers to get out, if you feel it's derimental for your well-being.

I am sorry, but with civil war looming in my backyard, I am even less tolerant to "Life in California is SOOOO hard".

Yes I read what you wrote. We get it. "Real problems" are allowed to be complained about and to be stressed about. Life in California is soo hard, because you know exactly what that person goes through each day right? Or what they have been through in the past. Maybe you need a little perspective. You don't know everyone's lives, and your rude attitude doesn't help your situation.

Also when depressed/any mental illness it is hard to get clear perspective.

I was just given a script for clonidine for sleep but haven't tried it yet. I am obsessive about weight so I'm surprised my doctor didn't mention this. I guess I won't be taking it. Ugh.

I am by no means anti med, and have been on a slew of them over the years myself (though never AP's). However, as a patient you have the right to ask your doctor for thorough explanations as to why they've chosen a med for you. If they don't discuss it with you, you can certainly find a psychiatrist who will. I know some of this depends on your insurance, so maybe you don't have a lot of options. But I would be more assertive with you pdoc if you feel like you can, and ask questions. These are serious meds and not to be taken lightly. The tendency of pdocs to be dismissive is so infuriating sometimes.

Harder, not impossible.

And seriously, I am sure I am not the only one on whom "California makes one need psychmeds" is rubbing in the wrong way. Sure you can complain, but you have no right to compare your situation to those with less power over their lifes. Doesn't make your trouble less real... but some gratidute and realism are needed here.

I am sorry, but it just rubbed on me in the wrong way. When you see a place that you visited, where you know the people and which means a lot to you (going to Crimea/Odessa and Kyiv did save my life when I was going through a hard time)... it changes your view of things. Some things don't really matter in the end. And... one cannot take too many things for granted.

Sorry for the OT, but I am bit emotional. So sorry, I may normally understand that life and what we made of it kinda sucks (but drugging yourself to be able to be part of it is really not a solution and doesn't help you and others). But right now? Just be grateful for what you got now. It's turbulent times and it may not last forever.

That was great sitting back and watching you rip chunks out each other , , Vesus your mom don't understand your a lesbian , is that why your mad at life all the time , get a real job and some friends and do something with your life instead of being on here 24 7 . let someone speak without shooting them up all the time I wasn't in this thread so it wasn't me . CHOLESTEROL we have meds in England I had high cholesterol I took meds for it now I don't , never give it a thought . CASTRIC BANDS are popular for obese and just fat. Venus you don't take meds but your deeply unhappy I take meds and im happy so I win . your over weight and you don't take meds , Im underweight when I don't take meds so win for me again. I understand your dislike of meds it because your body mass would hammer on weight with how you describe yourself and the minimum exercise you do , has you describe you have a weight lifter type swimmer body shape. So meds are not so punishing to me has they would be you I can see that SO YOU MAKE WAR ON ALL MEDS. I have sat back reading all the posts and you paint a very sad story and I understand your anger on issuies is because all your own issuies , MODS JUST POSTING WHAT I READ

Wrong on all accounts. I have happy periods in my life. You don't sound happy, tbh. I never said I am overweight. I am just no Twiggy.

https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/...18337716_n.jpg

So, no, you don't win. Not on any account. I may be angry, but I keep it civilized most of the time.

And I am politically active, I am getting teacher's licence, I am leading an international project in August, and I have a job where I use my linguistic skills. I receive money for it, hence it's a "real job".

No, you really don't win. Unless the contest is "who digs a deeper hole for themselves".

Venus, the extreme stress of living in the USA is financial. That's what I'm referring to. You're not here, of course you can't understand what I mean. I have lived in other parts of the world (including the mid-east, actually) and found it to be less stressful because here, there is the constant fear not being able to pay for basic services and ending up homeless. Honestly, you really would have to actually live here to understand what I mean.

I did not state that p-meds cure "all disease". I said that I believe stress can cause disease, and that in some cases p-meds prevent that stress from overtaking our bodies and making us sick.

I am on this forum because I am interested in thoughtful, intelligent opinions and discourse. At this point, I'm asking that you please post somewhere else and not on this thread, because it will be closed otherwise. Perhaps you can start your own thread at this point. Thank you.

Everyone else, thanks for your input on this thread. It's really interesting, lively, and helpful. Hey, let's all try to practice some compassion toward Venus while not becoming entangled in her issues I know it's hard to refrain from reacting, but I also know we can do it! Brightest blessings to all

I am sorry, I explained my point above. I get the finantial stress, and I suspected it's what you meant.

And anyways, me and Michanne didn't make up the "all disease" bit, it was said here and applauded.

Yes Venus I would like to see you start a thread , you have strong opinions on every thread wrote I have never once seen you agree. So start a thread with lots of info you believe in and lets take it from there, See if you can put your point over in your own thread without going manic , I nice carm thread have you any, you need to chill . im serious

I looked at your pic and you look very good, very attractive. (If I am allowed to say that.)

I don't think anyone is comparing themselves to others in the world. People share their own experience and struggles and it is real and valid to them.

It is hard for me not to get defensive when I hear a blanket statement like that in bold. Maybe you are only referring to dealing with stress. If you are referring to psyche meds I do take offence to it.

I self medicated with street drugs and alcohol for 17 years in order to cope with life and stress and depression. Actually for a number of years it was a solution. It worked. Of course in the long run it was not a solution and didn't help me or others. We agree. I don't recommend it to anyone but it was reality and is right now for many.

If someone suffers from anxiety due to stress and takes a med for it, who are you to say it doesn't help them and others? That it is not a viable solution? It may not be for you. And maybe it is your opinion that it is not right for others and you are entitled to that opinion and can express it. But don't be surprised if people take offense to it.

I get defensive and passionate if I perceive (probably falsely) that I am being judged for my choices. I do not judge others for theirs. Or I try very hard not to, even if they are terrible choices. It is not my business. If people perceive I am being judgmental then I apologize for that. It is not my intent and I am not judging.

I often feel powerless. Not due to geopolitical reasons. The economy has had a huge impact on me since 2007, but that is out of my control. I mostly feel powerless over my depression. That does not compare to others who are very powerless due to external circumstances, but I am not comparing. I am talking about my experience. I have not seen anyone comparing the two except for you. Doesn't mean we are not grateful or fortunate. I am very grateful for many things. We are talking about our problems though.

I do think you are correct in the respect that many of our differing views on this issue are cultural. The average American - and this is a huge generalization and I know will vary with different peoples experiences - just doesn't have the everyday stressors that people in other parts of the world do. Civil unrest, police corruption, natural disasters, lack of human rights...when I go to therapy sometimes I think about what some other people go through as part of everyday life and feel guilty. it amazes me what some people can endure and manage to remain mentally intact without the help of medication or therapy.

But on the other hand, I'm sure many cannot and as Americans we are so lucky to have the help that we do available at our fingertips. it's all a matter of perspective...everyone's reality is different and we do have to respect that. I so admire someone who can function and be productive without the help of medication. I'm even envious, because I know that I am not that person and have always wanted to be. I even saw a therapist who actually suggested a support group for people on psych meds but don't want to be. Im rambling here, but I guess my point is that I think the strong convictions regarding medications are culturally based. It's a tough judgement call on what to choose but it's so important to be as educated as possible about what you take because as Americans, the advantage we have in med choice can be our downfall too...the numbers of kids on AP's can attest to that. But then, there are the rare occasion where the child really does need it. who's really to know for sure?

With all that said, I guess I still would choose vain over sane in the end. It's possible I'd sacrifice the possibility of a longer life if I had meds that fixed most other things. but I wouldn't tolerate weight gain of more than 5-10 pounds. I gave up the best med I've ever taken because of that. I'd seriously rather struggle with finding second best.

You guys "spun" or "unspun" the all disease comment depending on how you see it. Clarified has a different meaning.
----
This whole "start your own thread" doesn't sit right with me. Are you saying certain viewpoints are not ok? Did you really just vote Venus out? That's how it comes across. And anyway there's someone else I have been more tempted to call out but have taken the high ground on.

My opinion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was refering to the thought of taking drugs to handle life in society which you don't even accept that much. And trying to normalize it in the way that there is something wrong with YOU that you need the drugs, not the society......

(apparently, society is evil by how they percieve fat people and society made me and others to judge ourselves based on our bodies and not take "possibly needed" drugs... but it's okay when society makes you so stressed you need to rely on chemistry to help yourself through).

And nowhere I mentioned global warming.

Quite honestly I don't know how much I accept or reject society. "Society" is a very big word and encompasses a lot of things. Some things I accept and some I reject.

I am a part of society and I have always had a hard time negotiating it. What are parental and peer group expectations of me growing up? What are societal expectations of me? What are my expectations of myself? How do I sort that all out? What are my core beliefs and values and what does it mean to be true to myself? I think I have a good sense of self and what it means to be true to myself after many many years but I may have a hard time explaining it to you. My core beliefs and values about myself and my reality is pretty solid now after a lot of work. I am very introspective so don't give a ton of thought to societal issues although I have an interest. I have my views on religion, politics, world affairs, climate change, and so on and it is fun to debate in the coffee shop. But I don't stress about them and don't know how big of an impact they may or may not have on me. It is my personality and I am introspective so we may be different that way. I would rather focus on my own personal and spiritual growth and on the people close to me. That is what is important to me.

I do think there is something wrong with me that has nothing to do with culture and society. I may have some things wrong with me that are due to society and culture. I am sure I do. The primary thing wrong with me is depression and anxiety and paranoia. It has had the biggest impact on my life. For many many reasons I am glad to explain I think it is 90% genetic and biological. Family and societal factors I have dealt with over and over for many years. They don't play a big role.

As far as voting Venus out of this thread I would not vote her out. I just said if she did start her own thread I would be happy to participate.

As far as this thread getting off track and twisting and turning, that doesn't bother me one bit. I find it fascinating. I know I am guilty of it. The fact that SisterRags started it and she has stated that she enjoys how threads weave in and out I don't mind weaving in and out of this one. If jimi starts a thread I will try to be conscious of his wishes that it stay on topic. Or in other threads.