[InfiniteSadness]

As opposed to meds/or a med change.. Ive heard people say it doesnt matter if its an all natural treatment or not, as long as it helps/or you get better. I kind of agree with that if youre feeling that Low. Im talking mainly depression and anxiety.

[jelly-bean]

As long as whatever it is is not addictive but is helping you I agree with the statement. You should always check with your doctor first though because many of the herbs that are used can affect the other meds you are taking.

Blanket statements are, by their very nature, always dangerous... including this one... I would say there are many factors to be considered. "Natural" is not necessarily always the first choice. Besides... what's natural? Snake venom is natural. I doubt many of us would want to take that...

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by InfiniteSadness

As opposed to meds/or a med change.. Ive heard people say it doesnt matter if its an all natural treatment or not, as long as it helps/or you get better. I kind of agree with that if youre feeling that Low. Im talking mainly depression and anxiety.

The only thing I'd really call "natural" are the elements of the universe, everything else is a chemical. If you want an all natural treatment try lithium.

[stages]

"Natural" doesn't mean much with medication. People usually use it to refer to, basically, less-refined drugs. Which can be better or worse. For example, St. John's Wort has a similar efficacy to standard antidepressants. Is it better because it's a "natural herb"? not really.

What we do with medications is isolate particular parts and combine them - the goal is to get the desired effect without the undesired effect, and basically to isolate it as much as possible. That way, if you increase X and it gets worse, but increasing Y gets better, then you can take Y without X. As opposed to taking the 'natural herb', which contains XYZ. There's also the matter of specific, consistent dosing as well

I heard lithium supplements - small amounts, as opposed to the doses of lithium used to treat mood disorders, which are often close to the toxicity point and thus can be dangerous - actually has caused new growth of grey matter in people. I wonder if that could be really bad thou, like couldnt it grow in and seem 'foreign' to our bodies and cause problems? I don't know much about that i guess.

As long as we're on the subject, fermented cod liver oil benefits mood for many people. However it's generally not as effective as an actual medication. That's because it's really just a vitamin and omega fatty acids supplement. But hey, any improvement is still an improvement...

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by stages

"Natural" doesn't mean much with medication. People usually use it to refer to, basically, less-refined drugs. Which can be better or worse. For example, St. John's Wort has a similar efficacy to standard antidepressants. Is it better because it's a "natural herb"? not really.

What we do with medications is isolate particular parts and combine them - the goal is to get the desired effect without the undesired effect, and basically to isolate it as much as possible. That way, if you increase X and it gets worse, but increasing Y gets better, then you can take Y without X. As opposed to taking the 'natural herb', which contains XYZ. There's also the matter of specific, consistent dosing as well

I heard lithium supplements - small amounts, as opposed to the doses of lithium used to treat mood disorders, which are often close to the toxicity point and thus can be dangerous - actually has caused new growth of grey matter in people. I wonder if that could be really bad thou, like couldnt it grow in and seem 'foreign' to our bodies and cause problems? I don't know much about that i guess.

As long as we're on the subject, fermented cod liver oil benefits mood for many people. However it's generally not as effective as an actual medication. That's because it's really just a vitamin and omega fatty acids supplement. But hey, any improvement is still an improvement...

That is how pharmacy started but not really that way today. They used to isolate chemicals from plants and play with them. Today everything is pretty much synthetic. You can't patent and naturally occurring substance.

The first antidepressants were discovered totally by accident as is the case with most drugs. I give you X to fix Y and the beneficial side effect Z shows up. So now I give you X to fix Z and besides it never really worked to fix Y anyway.

The SSRI's were the first time one was developed to bind to specific receptors on neurons affecting monoamines. Even with a specific design today they really don't know how they work when they work. It has been shown they increase neuron growth in the hippocampus. Mood stabilizers promote it in the amygdala. The "chemical imbalance" theory is far far from the whole story.

To me what matters is what works, natural or totally synthetic. It doesn't matter. There are many toxic chemicals that occur naturally that you don't want to take.

Recently a protein in saffron was shown to be pretty good for depression. big pharma won't bother because it is naturally occurring. Some supplement company will isolate it and sell it.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by nbritton

The only thing I'd really call "natural" are the elements of the universe, everything else is a chemical. If you want an all natural treatment try lithium.

that is little bit contrived definition.

Usually when one says "chemical" they mean man made as opposed to "natural".... growing in the dirt.

And you don't take lithium the element. You don't WANNA take lithium the element, eh.

[Altered Moment]

Yeah you don't want to take Lithium the element, the metal, it will literally explode in your mouth.

What people take are Lithium salts. ie already reacted Lithium.

I interpret natural as supplements that are specifically targeted to treat deficiencies that contribute to—or cause—depression, memory loss, anxiety, mood swings...that sort of thing. Blood and hormone tests can reveal what's needed. For example, I take vit B, vit D, DHEA, cortisol and some others that have been shown to be under normal levels.

Because this natural approach—which I view as treating root causes—takes longer than medication, I am also taking meds. But my hope is to eventually taper off the meds and see how I do on the other supplements. I really don't know the results, but I feel better about the approach.

Things like St. John's Wort and others never worked for me. I think they are maybe good for mild cases. I don't know. I just don't see things like that as targeted enough to really treat an underlying physiological cause.