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Default May 15, 2024 at 04:26 PM
  #1
Past psychiatrists have diagnosed me with bipolar disorder or schizoaffective d/o and tried me on a million different meds*, and, yeah, some have "helped" by making me so tired, dulled, and without any drive that I of course didn't get into any trouble. Some times. Then I'd get used to them and the side effects would go away and I'd learn to "operate" at "baseline" (???) and I'd go back to manic-like behavior (mostly impulsivity, hyperactivity, and paranoia, not sleeping but that might've been PTSD because I have all those other symptoms for months now but I'm sleeping fine just with weird hours). In the past year or so they said I have BPD which seems to be more of a problem than bipolar (maybe the only problem?)

I've been without meds for a few months now, and I've been a shyt show, but I don't think I've been more dysfunctional than when I was on meds, just now I don't have akathisia, no unexplained weight gain (I have gained though but switched from restricting to binging/purging so...) can experience pleasure, and only want to kill myself half the time.

I will say with actually feeling things, I've been in more trouble (got arrested, got an STD, made two suicide attempts, was in the hospital after three straight weeks of drug use, drinking, and traveling halfway down the east coast with a stranger while dissociated of the total black out kind but some memories are coming back). Some times I'm handling it better though. I might just not care though. (I've also been working on connecting thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations that were previously disconnected due to complex trauma, so that also is causing actually having emotions along with not being on meds that docs cranked up to high doses because I was "treatment resistant")

*before you say "you just haven't found the right meds," I have tried:
Seroquel, geodon, abilify, vraylar, fanapt, saphris, clozaril, latuda, zyprexa, invega, risperdal, thorazine, haldol, fluphenazine, lexapro, lithium, depakote, tegratol, trileptal, lamotrigine, amoxapine, zonegran, prozac, doxepin, effexor, cymbalta, every benzo, propranolol, prazosin, gabapentin, topamax, and mirtazapine. And in various combos as whoever tf I was seeing at the time saw fit.

So basically the good times are better and the bad times are worse. I just started therapy again and don't have a pdoc. Obviously my therapist doesn't know me well enough to really have a good discussion with me on this yet, and I feel it's on me to decide if I should push to get in with a med-provider or not.

I mean, I've survived the past few months so... I'm leaning towards I don't need them. But it hasn't been pretty; I'm a good example of what not to do, but I feel like if I just chose to do better I can do better without a pill or ten.

I don't know man, just thinking through things and looking for insight and other things to consider.

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Default May 15, 2024 at 04:55 PM
  #2
They might be effective but you need to eat properly and abstain from all drugs and alcohol or they aren’t going to help. Given your impulsive behavior and the fact you live where drugs and alcohol are available I’d say no. Also you might use them to OD. It would be helpful if you could find a sober living situation

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Default May 15, 2024 at 06:09 PM
  #3
Good point.

My last case manager said sober living wouldn't be a good fit for me though. Firstly, I didn't go straight there from rehab and relapsed in the time between and (she said, I don't know how true this is. She didn't have a perfect record of having accurate information) everywhere would make me go through detox and rehab again. I don't need detox and then to spend 30-90 days in rehab again, I've drank twice that I know of in months and just used other stuff when I went down south and I don't even remember leaving NH. Secondly, I wouldn't be able to afford it. She said I'd probably be kicked out quickly, too, because of all the strict rules, requirements, and expectations. Honestly, probably true. It's not like we would stay there all the time, and it's not like I'd be perfect in every way 100% of the time when I was.

I don't know where I can reasonably go where I can avoid substances though.

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Default May 16, 2024 at 09:07 PM
  #4
Your list of meds sounds like mine. Although I don't have a substance abuse issue (thank God cause I have more than enough issues) I really think meds would help. Not sure what meds...I've been trying different mixtures for years. I'm finally "sort of stable" at the moment but that changes in a heartbeat. If you could find sober living whose rules you could follow and get a good med doc I think it would help a lot. Have you looked into intensive outpatient ? They'll usually treat substance abuse along with BPD or whatever.

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Default May 16, 2024 at 09:12 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by MuddyBoots View Post
Past psychiatrists have diagnosed me with bipolar disorder or schizoaffective d/o and tried me on a million different meds*, and, yeah, some have "helped" by making me so tired, dulled, and without any drive that I of course didn't get into any trouble. Some times. Then I'd get used to them and the side effects would go away and I'd learn to "operate" at "baseline" (???) and I'd go back to manic-like behavior (mostly impulsivity, hyperactivity, and paranoia, not sleeping but that might've been PTSD because I have all those other symptoms for months now but I'm sleeping fine just with weird hours). In the past year or so they said I have BPD which seems to be more of a problem than bipolar (maybe the only problem?)

I've been without meds for a few months now, and I've been a shyt show, but I don't think I've been more dysfunctional than when I was on meds, just now I don't have akathisia, no unexplained weight gain (I have gained though but switched from restricting to binging/purging so...) can experience pleasure, and only want to kill myself half the time.

I will say with actually feeling things, I've been in more trouble (got arrested, got an STD, made two suicide attempts, was in the hospital after three straight weeks of drug use, drinking, and traveling halfway down the east coast with a stranger while dissociated of the total black out kind but some memories are coming back). Some times I'm handling it better though. I might just not care though. (I've also been working on connecting thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations that were previously disconnected due to complex trauma, so that also is causing actually having emotions along with not being on meds that docs cranked up to high doses because I was "treatment resistant")

*before you say "you just haven't found the right meds," I have tried:
Seroquel, geodon, abilify, vraylar, fanapt, saphris, clozaril, latuda, zyprexa, invega, risperdal, thorazine, haldol, fluphenazine, lexapro, lithium, depakote, tegratol, trileptal, lamotrigine, amoxapine, zonegran, prozac, doxepin, effexor, cymbalta, every benzo, propranolol, prazosin, gabapentin, topamax, and mirtazapine. And in various combos as whoever tf I was seeing at the time saw fit.

So basically the good times are better and the bad times are worse. I just started therapy again and don't have a pdoc. Obviously my therapist doesn't know me well enough to really have a good discussion with me on this yet, and I feel it's on me to decide if I should push to get in with a med-provider or not.

I mean, I've survived the past few months so... I'm leaning towards I don't need them. But it hasn't been pretty; I'm a good example of what not to do, but I feel like if I just chose to do better I can do better without a pill or ten.

I don't know man, just thinking through things and looking for insight and other things to consider.
If everyone could just "choose" to do better, nobody would have any problems. Its not your choice to abuse drugs....its an illness. Any mental health issues you have aren't your choice either. Be easy with yourself, but do what you need to do to stay safe/healthy.

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Default May 23, 2024 at 09:54 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Calla lily12 View Post
If everyone could just "choose" to do better, nobody would have any problems. Its not your choice to abuse drugs....its an illness. Any mental health issues you have aren't your choice either. Be easy with yourself, but do what you need to do to stay safe/healthy.
So true. I hate it when people (irl) throw out that ''choose'' ****. Good post.


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Default May 23, 2024 at 10:49 AM
  #7
A lot of my actions DO feel like choices though. At least at first. When I got drunk last week, I could've sooo could've just not had that first drink. Then it was harder but I lasted a week and yesterday I drank much more, and right now I'm on multiple substances including a crap load of alcohol and I don't even know how I'm not more fked up with everything I've knowingly taken plus whatever I unknowingly have taken.

When I binge I KNOW if I just say "chill, Muddy, you have control. If you take that first bite, you will think you're out of control and continue." I could totally avoid purging after if I didn't let the shame of being a disgusting, gluttonous POS and the terror of gaining a lot of weight consume me.

In relationships, if I just take 5 seconds to pause and think about the situation with wise mind (have not mastered yet), I probably wouldn't have issues in that department. I KNOW in my current romantic relationship it's unhealthy how I put them on a pedestal while feeling worthless and undeserving and then a little comment that isn't even a direct insult will send me spiraling and in a rage. The fact I think they're having sex with other people, and that I am, also is probably a warning sign. Logic side. Ignored. Emotion side=fear of abandonment and feeling euphoric when they show affection. Only side considered in all decisions with this relationship. I could actually work on seeing the rational side of things and putting it together with emotional brain. Do I though? No

When I get calls from my treatment team, I choose not to answer, and when they leave a message saying to call back, I choose not to.

When it comes to self-harm of both the non-suicidal and suicidal nature, I choose not to reach out before or try to use coping skills/distract myself.

Because I am a shytty person. I hurt others, cause unnecessary concern, and hurt myself. I have these urges and just give in without fighting them. Sometimes other people call me strong, but I feel like if I were strong, I'd put up a fight and win the impulses before they become needs.

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Default Jun 15, 2024 at 09:18 AM
  #8
I know EXACTLY how you feel. I have taken every psych med since 1988, 5 ECT trials (17 treatments in 1992 which DESTROYED my energy and nothing has helped it ever since including extensive exercise) all with 99.9% no relief. I've been diagnosed with agitated depression (within the bipolar spectrum), acute anxiety, bipolar (but I don't get manic), dissociated in my teens/20s/30s, 2 personality disorders, OCD and possibly asbergers.I haven't felt like myself in 45 yrs. And been on disability most of my life.

My Dr just ordered caplyta for me this week and my insurance covers it (I have Medicare and Humana for meds) but it's $700! The pharmacist said caplyta costs $17,000! I contacted caplyta maker and asked if I could get a discount and they said "maybe if I get a voucher from my Dr". I want to take it REALLY bad because my Dr said it will help me. I've been extremely sick since he started me on prozac 8 mths ago - all of my 6-7 symptoms are very severe and it gave me insomnia. Dr stopped prozac 6 mths ago and nothing has changed at all! I was sick before prozac but not nearly this sick!

I don't know what to tell you.It seems like you know yourself pretty well which is a good thing (I've had major problems with that ever since I dissociated at 13 yrs old). How long have you been sick? How many Drs have you seen? (I've seen tons of Drs between Philly and Baltimore the last 45 yrs and all they did was experiment with me and never cared about me and I can't stand it anymore.)

My present young Dr cares about me and is very bright and says he wants to help but he's run out of ideas I think. And he constantly changes his mind about what to do. In December he gave me tests and said my testosterone and adrenal levels were high and said I needed to see an endocrinologist badly and he added that he couldn't help me anymore so he's been hesitant to do anything. It took me 4 mths to see an Endo and she didn't get back to me after 2 mths with my lab results and just found out this week that all my labs were OK.

My experience is that the mental health field doesn't work one bit! I asked a top Dr at Johns Hopkins how much she knew about mood disorders and she said "Not much. Maybe in 10 yrs we'll know more". I can't wait 10 yrs! I OD'ed in 1988 and spent a mth in a lousy local hospital and the staff and Dr were incompetent and when I was discharged the Dr gave me an ACT team which came out to my house once a month and they were the most uneducated group of "nurses" I've ever come across - they wouldn't say anything to me or else they pushed me around so I told the Director after 6 mths that I was quitting! I've also been to dozens of day programs since 1990 and they NEVER helped. The people who run those place don't try and help anyone! They expect the patients to help each other (which is like the blind leading the blind) and they expect you to pull yourself together and I can't do that!

Hang in there, man. I'm really pulling for you because I can really relate to you very well. i wish you nothing but good health.

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Default Jun 15, 2024 at 09:45 AM
  #9
I don't exactly know "how long I've been sick." When I was in elementary school, if I saw anyone they probably would've labeled me with ODD even if I was just an emotional person who could think for myself. I've been probably a little more anxious than the average person for as long as I could remember. Around 11 is when the shyt hit the fan and the trauma effects started setting in and the anxiety from intensified trauma got worse. 16 is when the depression hit and steadily got worse over the next year or two and I hit psychosis (this is the point I started frequently using drugs). I didn't have my first manic episode until I was 17. So really it depends on your definition of "sick."

I do not remember how many providers I've seen. Doctors (including IP) probably a dozen, and more than twice as many APRNs. High turnover rate at our state's community mental health centers which I have gone to four of.

I think most of my issues now are BPD and PTSD stuff. Even though I'm not medicated for the bipolar, things have actually settled down a bit since stopping--though now I realize what I was confusing for rapid cycling BD symptoms were probably BPD stuff and I've read that meds make BPD worse. At this point I'm favoring the idea of being med free until I see early warning signs of manic/mixed episodes and then use hardcore PRNs, leave the depression untreated because that just sucks and I don't have the impulsivity aspect so it's not like I'm going to do a lot of damage. Actually think I'm less impulsive in pure depression because I don't have the energy or motivation to do anything.

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Default Jun 15, 2024 at 05:29 PM
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I don't exactly know "how long I've been sick." When I was in elementary school, if I saw anyone they probably would've labeled me with ODD even if I was just an emotional person who could think for myself. I've been probably a little more anxious than the average person for as long as I could remember. Around 11 is when the shyt hit the fan and the trauma effects started setting in and the anxiety from intensified trauma got worse. 16 is when the depression hit and steadily got worse over the next year or two and I hit psychosis (this is the point I started frequently using drugs). I didn't have my first manic episode until I was 17. So really it depends on your definition of "sick."
I've read that meds make BPD worse
Wow, you've been thru a lot. Do you live in a rural area? What's ODD?
I've never been psychotic even though I've taken every anti-psychotic and they have horrible side effects and do absolutely nothing. (Drs didn't know what to do with me so they gave me anti-psychotics ie. Haldol, Loxitane which gave me horrible akathesia in the hospital). And I begged my Dr to give me something one day in the hospital and he gave me thorazine which almost killed me. He quit the hospital and they gave me a horrible Chinese resident and he yelled at me the 3rd time I saw him because I said I was anxious. He threw his book down and said "Why do you always say you're anxious?" Then he put me on stelazine which was horrendous and didn't help. And all of this was in the best and oldest psych hospital in the USA in the 90's in Philly. Another wacked-out Dr when I saw him the 1st time said "Your anxiety is almost psychotic and you're a shmuck!" And he said and did other nasty things to me and eventually he lost his license in 3 States. And the psychologist in the Philly hospital just stared at me every day for 3 mths and didn't say one word. I was inpatient for 3 mths and spent the entire time in bad and felt absolutely horrible. The staff ignored me the entire time.

Hang in there.

Anti-depressants can make you manic if you're bipolar. Dr I saw 20 yrs ago said I was BP and refused to give me AD's and put me on every mood stabilizer for 3 yrs which did nothing and I was on lithium for 15 yrs and it did nothing.

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Default Jun 15, 2024 at 05:35 PM
  #11
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Wow, you've been thru a lot. Do you live in a rural area? What's ODD?
I've never been psychotic even though I've taken every anti-psychotic and they have horrible side effects and do absolutely nothing. (Drs didn't know what to do with me so they gave me anti-psychotics ie. Haldol, Loxitane which gave me horrible akathesia in the hospital). And I begged my Dr to give me something one day in the hospital and he gave me thorazine which almost killed me. He quit the hospital and they gave me a horrible Chinese resident and he yelled at me the 3rd time I saw him because I said I was anxious. He threw his book down and said "Why do you always say you're anxious?" Then he put me on stelazine which was horrendous and didn't help. And all of this was in the best and oldest psych hospital in the USA in the 90's in Philly. Another wacked-out Dr when I saw him the 1st time said "Your anxiety is almost psychotic and you're a shmuck!" And he said and did other nasty things to me and eventually he lost his license in 3 States. And the psychologist in the Philly hospital just stared at me every day for 3 mths and didn't say one word. I was inpatient for 3 mths and spent the entire time in bad and felt absolutely horrible. The staff ignored me the entire time.

Hang in there.

Anti-depressants can make you manic if you're bipolar. Dr I saw 20 yrs ago said I was BP and refused to give me AD's and put me on every mood stabilizer for 3 yrs which did nothing and I was on lithium for 15 yrs and it did nothing.
ODD- Oppositional defiant disorder
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Default Jun 16, 2024 at 11:24 AM
  #12
I have spent most of the last few years in a rural area, yeah. Spent a few months in a tourist trap, and have spent the last 6 months in a small city. And, yes, ODD is oppositional defiant disorder. Honestly they could've easily gone with ADHD instead. Or both, because DTD (developmental trauma disorder) isn't a thing (yet). But that doesn't really matter anymore because screw childhood.

Your story sounds awful. And from your other posts (including this one) it sounds like you've searched quite a bit around the 95 corridor in Maryland and Pennsylvania. You ever go to NJ? I hear they have some of the best mental health treatment in the country.

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Default Jun 18, 2024 at 08:52 PM
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Massachusetts has an excellent psych hospital. Its associated with Mass. General hospital.

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Default Jun 19, 2024 at 09:46 AM
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Massachusetts has an excellent psych hospital. Its associated with Mass. General hospital.
Yeah, I was at Blake 11 once. Absolutely no memory of it, was just told by my mom and apparently I didn't complain. There aren't any outpatient providers affiliated with MGH that, given someone will let me borrow their car, I can reasonably get to (closest is over an hour drive away and that's with no traffic, which can get absolutely brutal). I know I'm picky, but I refuse to drive on highways in MA if I have a time constraint. Sometimes 50 miles takes an hour, sometimes it takes over two.

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