[Kiya]

Homework: when mom asks how much my pay check is (so she can take from it) I am to say “I am learning how to be financially independent, and an adult. Adults don’t ask that of each other – so I’m sorry but that is private information.”
“That is private information”
“That is private information”
To keep saying it no matter how many times she asks - all 400 times.


And to freely tell mom that adults living together do not have to account for where they were or what they did, what they bought or why.

MORE Homework: Practice initiating talking to people –At the clinic dinners and events. Look for people I deem safe that I can try talking to. Or track where I am limited.

T said “Are you aware that at community dinners, you are not likely to speak to me?” Stomach hit floor. Felt attacked, or slapped in face. Then she and I both said at the same time... “Without your/my being addressed first”. This is a pervasive pattern for me with nearly everyone...

T said that because so many people have been so intrusive to me in my life, she tries not to be intrusive (this was a HUGE eye opener – when I am sulking and thinking she’s ignoring me – she’s really trying to not be intrusive, and allowing me space to speak openly to her). How many times to people long to be reached out to, but their body language says "DON'T talk to me!!!!" *raises hand*. I told T i spend my time trying to blend in with the wall.

some hard stuff there to look at, but i did - and shed a few tears, but we didn't even have to talk about my emotions tonight YAY! lol

[deliquesce]

(((((((kiya)))))))))

best of luck with your homework. i have complete faith that you can do it, and last the distance, especially with your mum.

Those sound like empowering and do-able homework assignments. You go girl!!

Kiya, good luck with your assignments! And that insight is very exciting!

[MissCharlotte]

Oh ((Kiya)),
You are SO brave. I got nervous for you reading this. But I thank you, not only because I can benefit from "talking" to people as well. (I am a blender too!) But also because I think I tend to overpower my son (who is schizophrenic) .... as a means of helping him and all in good faith, but he IS an adult and no matter how childlike at times I have to allow him to "be." So thanks for the reminder.

Okay, let's get out there and talk to people! LOL

[wanttoheal]

(((((((((((Kiya))))))))))))) This sounds so hard, but I think you can do it. This post is two-fold for me. Parents still try to do this to me (for the same reason as yours) even though we don't live near each other and haven't for years and years. I struggle with it each and every time because I was trained to answer them. I'm pretty evasive overall though and have found ways to not answer questions and not get into trouble for the most part. I hope to be brave one day and say what you are going to try to say though. I think it's awesome that you are working toward this and I know how hard it is and will be to utter those simple words.

On the other side of the coin, I have found myself asking my son similar questions at times, depending on how well he is doing mentally. I don't ask in order to take anything but oftentimes I ask to prepare myself for what he will do with the money when he is mentally struggling with coping skills. But, I need to allow him that privacy regardless of his mental health because my knowing doesn't help him- it only prepares me for outcomes.

I am often the same when it comes to socializing. I'd rather someone not notice me at all than to say or do something to hurt.

Best of luck and please keep us posted

[Kiya]

Wow - all this resonated with me so much - and is so helpful to my self-esteem to know i am not the only one struggling.

Originally Posted by wanttoheal

This sounds so hard, but I think you can do it.
I was trained to answer them.
...not get into trouble for the most part.
I hope to be brave one day and say what you are going to try to say though.
I know how hard it is and will be to utter those simple words.
Best of luck and please keep us posted

thanks! ((((((((((W2H))))))))))) Ok - i'm updating!!! In for a long post?!

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

So thanks for the reminder.

Okay, let's get out there and talk to people! LOL

Miss- thanks for your post... I am nervous too!! @_@

I am now wondering if my physical symptoms have something to do with this... (migraine, dizzy, nauseas, near blacking out) I can only say that I am in "report mode" as when I got my check today, and took it to the bank, i came right home and told her (w/o being asked even) the amount. I pay her rent - and this time, I can't. As it is, I am $115 short, not including the $300 i pay her, gas for my car for the entire month, and anything I forgot to include, or necessities (not including food, since I am on foodstamps). I had tallied everything up on a sticky note from my car and came in holding it. Mom saw it first thing. "WHAT'S THAT". It wasn't a question. I said, "I have bad news and bad news - which do you want first?" She laughed like I was kidding. I wasn't. So I started off with simple bad news (as compared to you know, complex bad news; aka MONEY); Fara Fawcet passed away, Michael Jackson passed away, bad time for Hollywood.... oh and i have $596 for July and $710 due (etc) which means.... I-can't-pay-rent"... *shuffle feet* She asked me what was due (as if I have pretend bills or non important bills). I listed them. She said those are important (duh). She agreed I will not be paying rent.

I felt like I just got an F---- on my first T assignment - that is until i reread what I posted here and remembered the clause "Or notice when you can't". *whew* But let's face it I can't possibly say "Oh by the way, I can't pay you rent" when she knows i got paid today. If my roommate said that to me, I'd be like SHOW ME THE MONEY! you know? PROVE IT!

This leads to my other homework assignment - talking to ppl. Tonight is the clinic dinner (every thursday). I don't even have gas money. I'm already under half and don't know when I can buy more... and i have work tomorrow, another clinic event on Sat which I don't know that I can afford going to (32 miles round trip, plus the $5 to get in - already took the $5 out of the bank before i got my current total), and i don't know what work next week. Sooooooo.... I've been convincing myself that I can't *possibly* go tonight.... I'm *exhausted* from my bumped up work load, I have a migraine, dizzy spells.... Starting to feel like excuses..."yeah, i ...have this um... cough! Yeah.... *hack hack*" ...AND nooooooooooooo money for gas. Yep. Can't go. But you'd think that the symptoms would be gone now, as the dinner ended over an hour ago, if I had come up with them to skip it.

Trying to now wager on Sat's event; massage, acupuncture, "fun" art collage, (engaging with people - aka homework), yoga... all good for me... (but I'm sick! I'm tired! I'm in pain!) All this will HELP me feel better - in theory. (But the money!).... you can't afford not to go.... (but... but... the MONEY!) You're already registered....
ugh.

Originally Posted by Treehouse

Those sound like empowering and do-able homework assignments. You go girl!!

Today half my kids came in crying, not wanting to leave home/parents. The other half cried all day wanting parents/to go home. It got to the point where the kids were going "IWannnnnaaGooooooooHoooommmmmeeeeeeee"
and I was going "MeeeeeeeTooooooooooooooooo" I don't wanna do this anymore, try anymore, be adult anymore, talk to people IRL anymore, try to go to clinic anymore, get up at DAWN.... when I am so overwhelmed with LIFE right now. The noise level is loosening my grip on sanity, the kids are miserable being stuck in HOURS of boring "summer camp" daycare, I am miserable with these physical ailments and wishing longlingly for my bed, yet concerned about my financial future.... and totally feeling my kid parts going WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Ok - with this much of a rant, i need to end with something positive... one of my trouble makers (not that he's TRYING to be one - it just works out that way) made me a paper that had a BIG smiley face on it and said;

To: Techer.
From: Oscar

Techer I Love You. Oscar.

LOL he's 5 or 6 years old =)
And one of my others who got a HUGE goose egg on his forehead today(which no one saw happen) was so miserable and kept asking for mom and why wouldn't mom get him (we'd left her several messages), and I said "I guess I want you more than she wants you - you think that's possible??" Nooooooooooo. But then he was my shadow the rest of the day, clinging to my fingers like i was his life raft- but I was there to hold him, comfort him, reassure him that he's ok - nice to be there for a kid in pain. AND... i got a surprise (think Kamikazi) hug from a girl who flew to my side from out of nowhere, nearly knocking me down. It can be nice to be so loved.

[sunrise]

Kiya, I understand why you told your mom the amount of your paycheck. She is doing you a favor by letting you not pay the full rent this month (what are parents for?!), so in a way, I can see you would want to share with her the amount of this month's lower than expected paycheck. If you are working toward financial independence, then an important goal will be to be able to pay your rent every month so maybe now is a good time to look at your expenditures. Maybe it would even be helpful to go over these things with your T. Maybe she can help you set spending priorities. Maybe you can combine your clinic visits so you don't have so many and use so much gas. Like you could schedule a therapy visit with another event there so you don't have to drive twice. Or maybe you can pare down some of the events you attend there, such as the dinner. Even though it is good to have opportunities to practice your social skills at clinic events, you might be able to do similar at your job, which you have to be at anyway. For example, you can practice social skills with students, teachers, staff, parents, etc.

when mom asks how much my pay check is (so she can take from it)

Kiya, what does that mean? How does your mom take from your paycheck? You pay her rent, so after you pay that agreed upon amount, she takes additional? How does she "take"? Can you deposit your check in a bank account and write her a check for the rent and then she isn't able to take more? I think I'm not understanding this situation--sorry!

Kiya, your post sounds really "together" to me. That is so wonderful how your students love you and express that. Yes, it is nice to be loved. And needed.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Kiya, what does that mean? How does your mom take from your paycheck? You pay her rent, so after you pay that agreed upon amount, she takes additional? How does she "take"? Can you deposit your check in a bank account and write her a check for the rent and then she isn't able to take more? I think I'm not understanding this situation--sorry!

Just that beyond rent, she keeps changing the amount of the bill that we "split evenly" on internet/phone, borrows and doesn't pay me back, has me pay for things she should be paying for, or will tell me she's about to bounce a check and needs X amount for a day or two and will pay me back on X day (which she always pays me back that next day in those situations) - but it makes my own account unstable. She prioritizes her self, time, money, needs, bills, life (usually) over mine. Every now and again she makes my bills a priority (like this last time and I was really shocked). but that is not the norm.

She sees me as an extension of herself - and thus, I have learned that she is also an extension of me. She thinks this is healthy and wishes it to continue, and heavily promotes it. I know it is not healthy because there are few enforced bounaries, and want to change it. I have at times benefited from it - but then felt guilty for it because she uses that "I'm a mom, it's my job" line when I resent her when I have to be the extension. i feel that as a daughter, it is not my role, and only act it out grudgingly. It still feels NOT OK to say no to her every whim - from can i have x money, to make this dinner for me, to take the garbage out to drive me all over creation because I can't find it myself. In other words, it makes all requests equal in bile and resentment no matter how big/small, typical/atypical the request.
I gotta go make her dinner now....

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Kiya

It got to the point where the kids were going "IWannnnnaaGooooooooHoooommmmmeeeeeeee"
and I was going "MeeeeeeeTooooooooooooooooo"

Oh Kiya, did you actually say that? I think the kids would appreciate that, but maybe not. I know I did .

[Kiya]

Yep - really did say that. @_@ Dunno if they heard me or not. It's not the first time I've said it either lol. Sometimes they'll go "Huh!?"

[sunrise]

Kiya, what a difficult situation with your mother. You have mentioned before about trying to set boundaries and I understand better now. It must be so hard, because in addition to all her demands that don't feel fair to you, then once in a while, she will give you a generous break, like allowing you to not pay the full rent, and then you feel beholden to her (and she lets you know it). Aaacckkk!

Does your mother work? How is her health?

Do you think it will be possible for you to move out on your own at some point?

Hang in there, Kiya. I am glad you have your T and your support system.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Kiya, what a difficult situation with your mother. It must be so hard, because in addition to all her demands that don't feel fair to you, then once in a while, she will give you a generous break, like allowing you to not pay the full rent, and then you feel beholden to her (and she lets you know it). Aaacckkk!

Aaaacckkk is right. Sometimes now I can say no to her asking for backrubs, and i finally said absolutely NOT to foot rubs anymore - quite some time ago. But... but.... meh. it is really so hard to describe. But when I tell T (and have told all my Ts over the years) they have all said the relationship is abusive.

*Does your mother work? How is her health?

She is working herself to the bone... she's 68 and can't retire. So, for being in the position she is in, her health is ok...

*Do you think it will be possible for you to move out on your own at some point?

Ohhhhhh that is the goal!!! has been for.... um.... since i was 16. I'm 32 now. I've been out a few times - none successful. T is working on it with me.

*Hang in there, Kiya. I am glad you have your T and your support system.

Me too me too!!!!! Without her and my dr - I'd have given up by now.

Today, the clinic had Spa Day and i was concerned that I couldn't afford the gas $ to go, or the $5 donation. I told mom and she handed me a $20 bill (I know i wrote this somewhere else, but can't remember where). I was totally shocked - and like you said - that sense of guilt and being tied to her.... She said "You've helped me so much through these hard times and I've been saving some..." I was speechless.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Kiya

*Does your mother work? How is her health?

She is working herself to the bone...

Does she tell you? "I work my fingers to the bone..." is what my mother said frequently, in telling us how ungrateful wretches we children were.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Kiya

Today, the clinic had Spa Day and i was concerned that I couldn't afford the gas $ to go, or the $5 donation. I told mom and she handed me a $20 bill (I know i wrote this somewhere else, but can't remember where). I was totally shocked - and like you said - that sense of guilt and being tied to her.... She said "You've helped me so much through these hard times and I've been saving some..." I was speechless.

Yay, I'm glad you got to go! Was it fun? Sounds like your Mom did a nice thing--hard to accept, but it's there. Nothing is black and white, is it? I understand about being speechless. Last Thanksgiving, when I arrived at the family gathering, I was first talking to a group of relatives and my mother realized I was there, and exclaimed "Sunny! When do you come in?" and she gave me a hug. My mother has never hugged me in my life that I can remember, even as a child. I just did not know how to react. Probably somewhere inside, unbeknownst to me, I had wanted a hug from my mom many times, but when she actually gave me a hug, I was just in shock and stood there, stiff as a board. I would like to better meet her late-in-life attempts to reach out, but I don't know how.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Does she tell you? "I work my fingers to the bone..." is what my mother said frequently, in telling us how ungrateful wretches we children were.

yipes! No... she does not use those words. She does tell me every detail of her every day, tho. and sometimes she has 12 hour shifts.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Yay, I'm glad you got to go! Was it fun? Sounds like your Mom did a nice thing--hard to accept, but it's there. Nothing is black and white, is it?

No, i guess it isn't.... especially when I have adapted to her patterns lol, then she changes them up. guess it keeps me on my toes. Now she is going to buy me one of my anxiety pills that I can't afford. And honestly - all i can think is "when is this going to bite me in the ***?

[chaotic13]

Kiya your situation sound tough.Sounds like your mom wants to be nice, but always attaches strings to her gifts. I think when someone does something nice for me it is hard not to look for the attached strings. I think this was one of the reasons it took me so long to warm up to my T.

What I don't like most about myself at the moment is I'm so distrustful at times that even when I do get a real gift, I don't fully enjoy it because I waste time making sure accepting it won't get me into trouble down the road.

Originally Posted by Kiya

And honestly - all i can think is "when is this going to bite me in the ***?

OMG, I can SO relate to this. I have not lived at home for a long time, but my mom lives 4 miles from me. She INSISTED on paying for my cell phone for a long time - I could not get out from under her because we had to go to the store together to change it (I called many times to do it) and she wouldn't go. FINALLY, after about a year in therapy, I really put my foot down and we went and did it. It was such a relief. There were lots and lots and lots of strings attached to that cell phone.

She still gives me money occasionally, even though I don't ask. I know it kills her that I am independent and don't "need" her for things. But I am finally feeling like I can sort of breathe for the first time in my life.

Keep working, sweet Kiya. You will get there.

[Kiya]

Chaotic, Tree, I totally get that - both of those. And my dad did own my cell phone for ages. That was awful... "Who do you know who lives in ___________?!" *rolls eyes*. OMG! I was sooooooooooo happy to get my own phone. And changed the number so he doesn't know it!!!!

I, too, am wary of strings attached with other people and their gifts. In fact, with the $20 that mom gave me, I gave up my extra (hidden) box of Q-Tips, so that I nullify the strings some from the money. I have to hide my stuff - she uses them.

I am really glad this makes sense to people - it seems to astound T. I tell her a tid-bit (like what I just posted - which, let's face it, is like one of the umpteen billion that happen in a day) and her eyebrows get lost in her hair as she looks at me with unspoken surprise. It is nice to not be a shock here =)

I have so much that has come up this week that I have notated either in posts (copied into Word) or in my puter journal... it is just too energy-consuming to edit and bring to T. Blah. I've tried several times this week, and I just can't do it. =( Hard to turn in my homework this way!