[hangingon]

I have been thinking about this subject lately as I recently asked my T if she had been sexually abused as a child because she had told me that she had been to therapy for 7 years herself.

When I say abuse, I mean physical, sexual, or neglect.

After asking mine, she told me no that she wasn't sexually abused and that she didn't like to compare people's issues, or something to that effect. Then she said if she were she would have chosen a different line of work. (I didn't like this statement a whole lot, as many abused individuals go into the field of psychology, but I have not told her that)

When I first started seeing her, she told me that 2-3 years is a normal time frame to deal with sexual abuse.

Well, I thought that was interesting after her telling me she went for 7 years but I didn't put two and two together for awhile.
Now I am thinking, she wasn't sexually abused, yet told me she did see a counselor for 7 years, not including the 3 she did for her psych degree.

I guess I'm confused with all of this.
But I think what I have the hardest time with is, how are they supposed to know what its really like for you? I mean she will tell me I know thats really difficult for you ect, and I'm thinking no you don't, you have absolutely NO IDEA.....you don't have a clue.

It makes me feel like they really have to do it all by the book if they have not been abused because they really don't know apart from what they have heard, and we are all so very different in that sense because we all experience these issues differently.

Any thoughts? When your T disclosed some history, how did it make you feel?
I am happy mine shared but in the same sense, I am like how is she supposed to really get it.

[peaches100]

My t reveals very little about herself. She has never told me if she has suffered any abuse, but based on the little bit she has told me, my guess is no. She did say that she has been in therapy before and commented, "How could we do this work if we haven't been in therapy ourselves?" But I figured she was talking about the required therapy that LCSW's have to take in their training, and/or supervision or consultations she might have with colleagues about specific cases.

[peaches100]

PS - Good question about how can they help us with abuse if they have not suffered it themselves. . .

I guess they would have to go on what they've read and learned about abuse. I agree that if they have not been abused, there is no way they could completely understand. They may understand intellectually, but they would not have the shared emotional experience of what it feels like to be abused. Still, I think they are qualified to help. I think of it kind of like a medical doctor who treats a burn victim. The doctor may have never suffered a terrible burn, but they have learned how to take care of someone who has been badly burned.

If the therapist has never experienced abuse first hand, I think that they would have to combine what they've learned about abuse with their powers of empathy. As they listen to the patient recount their experience of abuse, they would try to imagine what it must have been like for them to suffer in that way. The therapist would do their best to enter into the patient's experience and feeling state, responding empathetically, validating the patient's experience, and providing comfort and support for the patient.

[deliquesce]

what an interesting question, (((hangingon))). i have never asked directly, but pdoc has told me he has never been clinically depressed and i dont think he has ever been abused either. i was surprised he said he had never been clinically depressed (people like that exist?! ) because he gets me so well. but then... i do not think you need to have every life experience under the sun (experience with a terminal illness, relationship breakdown, abuse, mental illnesses in all their various manifestations, questioning your sexual orientation etc) to be able to be a good therapist and to empathise with someone facing those issues and help them in a meaningful way.

there are times when i talk to pdoc and i do feel a slight disconnect - there is a very fundamental way in which he will never get what it is like to be abused. but then, there is a very fundamental way in which he will never get what it is like to be a woman, or to belong to a migrant/refugee family, to have been in a same-sex relationship etc. in a very fundamental way, i dont think there is anyone who will ever get the exact circumstances i have lived through. but that's ok, i think - for me, anyway. i know pdoc tries his best, and it's the fact that he tries so hard which touches me. i know he is commited to helping me as much as he can.

re: your T. i would be upset if someone expressed the same view to me (that if they are a survivor they would not have entered a helping profession). kind of makes me question her beliefs surrounding survivors of abuse (does she think they are fundamentally damaged in such a way that they would be unable to profesionally manage countertransference issues or something?). ugh. views like that from people who are not Ts tend to get me upset, but i can forgive it on ignorance and those ppl never having thought it through properly before. from a T, i would feel like smacking their silly head in. (this isn't just limited to survivor-therapists, though - many ppl think that ppl with mental illnesses cannot be good therapists, and again, i just think that's another ignorant view).

Austin-T disclosed to me that the reason he got into psychology was because he grew up as the care giver in his family (both his parents had mental illnesses, his mum rarely got out of the bed). he shared with me how bewildering and confusing it was for him growing up, because he didnt understand why other parents were doing 'normal' things, and why his mum wouldn't even take a shower, and how he used to have to cajole her into eating from when he was in primary school. it makes me really sad that he didnt have parents who could look after him, the way you would hope that any kid would be looked after. it's a big responsibility for a little kid to have to take on . he said he probably grew into having a personality disorder because of it (OCPD) because he needed to control something, and it helped him manage life.

i am really sad for the little boy he never got to be, and sad for the responsibility he had to shoulder at such a young age. i dont think i will ever truly 'get it' though - i was allowed to be a kid in that i had my meals prepared for me, i didnt have to manage finances and i didnt have to bring home groceries so that there was something in the fridge. i dont know what other kid-things he missed out on because of his family circumstances. and even if i did, there is a sense in that unless i lived through it myself, then how would i truly ever get it?

but maybe i think that 'good enough' is 'enough', yknow? just the fact that i can feel sad for Austin-T, or that pdoc can feel sad for me... it's the sort of thing i feel healing, and i don't feel so alone anymore. it's about being listened to, i think. even though pdoc seems to have had a rosey kind of life, he really tries to understand me. old-T also had a very rosey life, but there was a lot more disconnect from him, in that i never think he tried to look beyond what he'd read in his psych text books, to listen to the person in front of him.

[sw628]

My T had been in Therapy for 10 years. 2 years with an individual therapist and 8 years in group. She is a survivor and we have a lot in common that I won't disclose here. I believe that she can truly empathize with my pain most of the time.Other times i think she is so over her issues that she forgets what's its like to still feel/endure the pain.

(((hangingon)))

My T has told me that she's counseled both sexual assault victims and offenders. I have no idea if my T was abused or assaulted, but I'm sure she was able to help both the victims and offenders, even though I'm hoping she was never an offender herself!

My T doesn't tell me much about herself, and I'm actually fine with that. She has only once told me a story about her mother that was directly connected to what we were discussing about my own mother - the two sound very similar in their narcissistic ways - and this really made me feel closer to my T. I have other issues that are rather unique that I'm sure my T hasn't experienced, but I feel confident that she can help me work through them.

I know that my T was in therapy for several years as part of her psychoanalytical training, and I think it definitely made her a better therapist.

My T has been in therapy for 9 years and still goes. I have NO IDEA what his reasons were for seeking therapy, or why he is still in therapy.

He has said things to me a couple of times...like once when he was tired, he said he sometimes has a hard time sleeping because his mind starts going at night. He said it's one of "his issues". I was like....T has issues?!

I don't know if he suffered any abuse...but he is very, very empathetic and specializes in trauma and I feel like he is the right person to help me. In some ways, I would worry if he had suffered CSA, because I would be worried about triggering him (I'm way way to overly care-taking when it comes to T). Not knowing if he has suffered CSA gives me the freedom to say whatever I need to say without worry of triggering him.

[chaotic13]

I have no idea what my T's mental history is. I do know that at times she makes statements that anger me or make me think, "WTF, she thinks dealing with this is just so easy." "She has no idea what it is really like!" Then I think...even if she did/does have some first hand experience with "what its like" she still wouldn't understand what it is like for ME. RECENTLY, when I have felt this way, instead of getting angry and just telling myself..."she can't possibily understand" , I've tried to voice what I'm feeling and help her understand. This happened recently in an exchange where my T suggested that I do some visual imagry exercise when I am feeling triggered. I was a little angered because in my minded she made it sound so easy. "Hey, when your in the middle of a panic attack... just visualize X,Y,Z and you'll be fine." Instead of just swallowing that thought and redirecting the conversation like I usually do I told her, "I'll try that BUT, its not as easy as you make it sound. Closing your eyes and doing imagining whatever, while your in the middle of freaking out is kind of hard!" I'm sure there was no trace of sarcasim in my voice either :-) The point was... she acknowledged that her suggestion as stated was inadequate and that I was not feeling like she understood the severity of what I was trying to tell her. We were able to then discuss in more detail what I was actually experiencing and develop a more comprehensive strategy that might actually be do able.

I don't like it....but maybe this is therapy. In helping her understand and having the guts to speak up when I don't think I'm being heard, I am helping myself understand it all better.

I think the important thing is can a T LISTEN, empathize, and be compassionate when hearing a client tell their story. Wheither they've been there themselves can certainly add some depth to their appreciation, but it can also add some judgement and bias as well (e.g. "If I could recover in 2-3 years, why can't they?"). Also how many times have you listened to someone tell their story and while your listening you start thinking about your own story and how similar or different it is or what you did/didn't do? Or you start to fill in the gaps they've left with stuff from your experience? I know when I listen to someone tell me about some experience that they have had but I haven't, I tend to listen more closely, asks more questions, check with to make sure I'm understanding what they are expressing. IDK, I tend not to make so many assumptions and I am accepting and more believing of what THEY are saying.

[hangingon]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

As many of you stated the fact that she hasn't been abused does not mean that she is not a good counselor.

I just find myself sometimes thinking she really doesn't know, because she doesn't. I said that one time, "that you have no idea what its like, and she just said, I have no idea, but said it in a way as if she did know.

That is what spured me into asking her 2 weeks later. I have always wanted to ask her stuff but didn't have the nerve. When I did ask her, she said is there anything else you would like to ask of me. Of course I had more things in my head but I just said no. I don't know why I am scared to death to ask her stuff.

Deli,
I do believe like you that her statement came across as if we are damaged and can't overcome these issues completely. I am going to ask her about that comment. Because I am a nursing student (finish this December) and am contemplating doing psych nursing after a year or two of medsurge nursing. I never told my T this but that will come up when I ask her what she meant by her comment.
I just think it's an ignorant view as well, what better way to be a huge help having been through simliar things, or at least being able to understand or identify with the hardships of it.

Chaotic,
I also feel upset when my T suggests doing something, like it's nothing at all. I have told her that it's much easier said than done. That is great that you are really sharing with your T your feelings about her statements that is something I really need to work on more.

UGh....tomorrow would be my day to see her but she is still away. I have 2 more weeks to go before she returns from vacation......it's taking forever.

[chaotic13]

I've just started speaking up. I'm not good at it yet, I still often rely on email for that but I'm getting better. I think my T may suspect or understand somethings better than she lets on too. Since I don't like having to speak up and providing a detailed explaination of things, she seems to sometime encourage this by acting like she doesn't quiet get what I'm saying but wants to. I will say that she has to be really subtle when doing this otherwise I catch on and refuse to play.

[Kiya]

yes - mine is. i had no idea until she finally told me one day to encourage me that i am not alone and that healing is possible. And mainly to get me to speak! TO get me to understand that dissociation doesn't have to be forever. Still haven't spoken tho... not more than a few words.

[skeksi]

Kiya, it sounds like your T's disclosure was really helpful to you. It's so nice to know we're not alone and there is room for hope.

My T has made it clear that he's never experienced what I have, either the abuse or the symptoms )flashbacks and dissociation). He is incredibly empathetic, though, and seems to "get" it--he uses more dramatic language than I do to describe my experience, for example. He's gotten me to use words like 'abuse,' 'terrified,' 'terrorized,' and so on. I think he understands because he makes an effort to hear me, and you don't have to be a survivor to do that.

[chaotic13]

Kiya, I continually beat myself up with the fact that I still haven't spoken in much detail. Although now, I think I am communicating and more importantly, I'm understanding my experiences better. Maybe this is what my T was meaning when she said healing doesn't necessarily mean that you can talk about stuff with all the little details included.

this is an interesting question. my t and i are a lot alike and that is one of the reasons i felt she was the right t for me. i do know she did the same 12-step group as i but as for any other abuse i don't know. since i've not experienced physical or sexual abuse i don't think i want to know if that is part of her history. if that were a part of my history i'd probably find it helpful though. i do think there is something to be said for people who have had similar experiences but it's not the whole picture. as others have said empathy and being a good listener are huge and the connection is probably most important.

hanging on, i don't know what your t meant by the comment she made about not wanting to be a t if she had been sexually abused, but it may not have had any negative connotations to it. when i was younger i thought about being a t but decided against it because i felt like i needed to do something more fun and lighthearted (like art) since i've been thru so much. but now, i'm considering becoming an art therapist eventually. i can understand someone wanting to do something completely different to find a bit of balance in their life. i'm guessing your t was just speaking for herself and not making any generalizations about the competency of those who have been abused sexually. personally, i think it's a very individual choice. some people would probably be great ts because of their history and others might be concerned their history would cause too much countertransference for them.

[Yoda]

I don't think my T was sexually abused or been in a domestic violence situation or she would probably have told me in our ten plus years of therapy.

She has told me that she was very depressed long ago and had insomnia and would sit at night petting her cat to soothe herself. Sometimes a bit of self disclosure lets me know she is real.

[Kiya]

Skeksi, Chaotic - I second both your posts!