I made nice nice with my old T

Yesterday after I had my run in with T#1 at the gym I felt horrible about the way things were with us. We couldn't even look at each other in the eye. It was hard because I felt better in seeing him because I have missed him but yet I couldn't stop feeling the yuck of crap we had between us. I know I had a right to feel angry at what he did but I felt bad for my actions I made in anger and hurt. It wasn't who I wanted to be. So I called him and told him that I apologize for all that I did and that I was sorry if I caused him embarrassment and that I wanted to clear the air between us so we don't have to look away when we come across each other because it felt so awkward. I left it open for him to call me back, but I didn't expect to hear from him. I was okay with that because I felt I did my part in clearing the air, it was up to him to decide if he would accept my apology and how things would be. I wished him the best of luck in life and said goodbye. I actually felt at ease.

Well he called me this morning and we talked. He said he accepted my apology. I said I was glad because I felt really bad about the things I did. He told me that his friends, family and some clients saw what I wrote on various forms. I asked him if he understood my anger and he said he did. I knew I wouldn't get an apology for his part in this, so I just let that go, this was about my apology anyway and he sounded a little strained and I didn't want to push it. He said that he would feel better too if things were clear between us and he said that it would be nice for us to be able to say hello or wave when we see each other again. I said that sounded good to me. He wished me well and we said goodbye.

I mostly feel better about this. It feels good to get part of my yuck of my life out of the way. I still have mixed feelings and my current said that was okay, so I am allowing myself to not to worry about it too much.

I am wondering about this whole soul-mate thing again. I was nearly at the bottom of how bad I was feeling about myself and my future, I don't know if I could have felt much lower. But then he was there that next morning, maybe not in the most pleasant of ways, but he was there. It makes me wonder about this connection that I have with him. It is weird and surprising on how things are and how we keep running into each other but the fact it happened at that moment in a place I haven't seen him before. It is even weird it is ANOTHER gym. Makes me think about how this racquetball thing has changed so many thing with me and healing. I wouldn't have even of seen him if I didn't get transferred to the running class and was there earlier in the morning. It just feels so weird, confusing, but somehow I feel better.
Maybe this is the hope I needed. Maybe things won' t be as nice and pleasant as it used to be with T1 when we saw each other in the past, but it shouldn't feel as bad as it did this year. If I can get through this, one of the most painful things that has happened to me ever, just maybe I can get through all the other stuff too.

Wow, exotic! That sounds like a major step toward healing to me - great job!!!

this is powerful and hopeful exotic... i imagine you will still have your guard up some but its good that you are freeing yourself a bit from the prison of fear and loss.... respect yourself all the way to inner peace ... maybe T1 is learning something from you

Thanks Dream,

It is hard when healing feels good but is also painful. This issue is huge for me. Today I look at what I did, and I am like did "I " do that? lol

Thanks NowheretoRun,

It does feel very powerful, a release, a sense of healing, and it is allowing me to be true to myself. I have done things I am not proud of, regardless of the reasons why, but apologizing for my part, gave me a reason to hold my head up high when I see him again.

Yeah, I could have told him if the things I wrote about embarrassed him with his friends and family, maybe he shouldn't have been doing those things to begin with. I know my currentT believes this and feels he deserves a little humility. She is sure he has learned a lot from me, and probably won't make those same mistakes again as a T.

But I feel I am starting to let this go, after 2 1/2 years of seeing him, after 2 1/2 years since I fired him. This is the most painful thing I have ever had to deal with, he really hurt me. But because of my new insights with EMDR, I see that he was scared and reacted like he did because of that. He really needed supervision or a T himself, but I think T's who have been practicing as long as he did, feel too proud to do that.

So yes, I do have a case with the APA where I filed the first stages of my complaint, but I won't continue it. He did a lot of wrong things but from a humanistic standpoint, I can't ruin him because I don't think he really intended to hurt me on purpose, he was just scared of his feelings. I just can't hurt him like he hurt me.

This is really powerful, Exotic. It sounds like an amazing step for you (or anyone!) to leave a message like that for ex-t). Im surprised he didnt apologize at all- sounds like he could use a dose of humility himself.

Can I ask you for a summary of what happened with him? (If its not too painful to re-tell). If I read it before and it didnt stick on a braincell, Im sorry....maybe I knew the story, but didnt realze it was you?

Sounds like the feelings I have had about desk-t.....My feeling is that when they (dt and your ex-t, not all t's!) have been practicing for a long time either they are just set in their ways and are unable to be flexible, or are just unable to see another point of view.

Thanks Bluemoon,

I think it would be a legal risk for him to apologize for anything he did so I understand that. Perhaps after next July when I can't bring a complaint against him with APA due to it being 3 years since I last saw him, he might apologize but I am not holding my breath. But I must say I saw the "sorry" in his eyes after my last session with him, the next morning at the gym, after I started with another T, where I told him that I couldn't believe I would ever have to do EMDR because of HIM. I saw it in his eyes when he looked at me.

I guess our relationship in a nutshell would be:

It was normal the first 6 months then we ran into each other at the gym. Then things changed, instead of seeing him every 2 weeks, I saw him 2-3 times every week, in shorts never the less! lol Things became almost too comfortable with the both of us, our sessions started to go right into his lunch hour, maybe 20-30 min past my therapy time. It wasn't because I was having a tough time, we were just joking around socializing. I did like the extra attention because he was a fun guy to be around.

Well we found out that we had a ton in common, and a lot of coincidences or what I would call synchronicity moments. There was a mutual attraction between us, but for me it was mostly a spiritual connection. We keep running into each other at various of times in weird places. But our relationship slowly turned from professional to more personal.

He started to flirt big time at the gym, and I do admit it felt good that he was attracted to me, but I didn't want him to go there, because I knew it was wrong. We are both married, not to mention it was unethical. I tried to talk about his behavior inside and outside of the office but he refused to talk about it. I thought that was odd since he told me our therapy relationship was a practice model for the outside world, but yet he wouldn't even communicate with me and my concerns. (maybe that is normal a relationship for him?)
When I started in termination phase, his flirting increased and he would say some really sexually provocative things in therapy. I don't mean to make it sound like he was a dirty dog or anything like that, it was in a playful way.I liked this but it also make me feel unstable with my emotions concerning him. He wouldn't talk about what was going on, said we couldn't be friends, but his actions didn't support that at all.

Well we were going to do a light EMDR session for some stage fright I was having. Well during this some really bad stuff came up from my past. He said he was sorry because he should have known, it was his oversight. So we decided to continue with more therapy and stop the termination.

I was suppose to come up with specific childhood memories of abuse concerning me performing in regards to my mom to do EMDR. Well if you have been abused as much as I was, you can' t just come up with one solitary experience to work on. I was abused almost daily so it is all interweave together. I was also very scared because the one time near the the beginning of our therapy I had a bad experience of EMDR where it really drudged up some stuff I had tried to forget my whole life. I was nervous, scared and really feeling reluctant to do EMDR again. He didn't pick up on that.

So instead of staying objective, he got frustrated at me and started to yell at me. (which he has never done in the 2 1/2 yrs. of working with him.) I know now, some years later with therapy of my current T, I was triggered and his yelling scared me a lot. I actually remember the memory looking from the other side of the room.
I yelled back for him to stop yelling at me, had my hands over my head for protection and he said he wasn't yelling. I said well you were talking really load and scared me. He said that maybe he shouldn't have done that.
I said it feels like you hate me. He said when he yells at his wife or daughter it doesn't mean he hates them. I said, so you still like me then? He said that is a really odd question. I guess he understood my question different than what I said because he went to tell me that he didn't care about me, and if I died he probably wouldn't come to my funeral. I was devastated that someone I cared about very much, who I really liked and trusted would say such a mean thing to me. The hard part was the look on his face when he said it.

Through much EMDR and therapy, I have come to understand that look was one of fear. He had feelings for me, I knew this for a long time,(it was very obvious) but I think it really caught him off guard.
I saw this look before once in a session before he had to go to the heart doctor and he didn't know if they were going to put a tube down his throat to shock his heart. He got really frustrated with me because I couldn't decide on my next therapy time and he was worried he was going to late for his heart appointment right after my session. He got rude with me,I found this out afterwards, after I got upset and left a message on his phone, and he then said he was sorry, it wasn't me, but this thing of his.

So I know he handled this whole thing really badly, and I have right to feel angry and hurt, but I just can't hurt him back because what we had between us was a lot of chemistry and he was scared. I have worked on my anger and hurt with my current T and those feeling will probably still be there a little, but I don't hate him, I still care about him and still feel this connection to him. Something I have only felt with my grandma and old friend who died many years ago.

I started to write out my pain of what I was feeling, using his name, I didn't know that Google would pick that name up and it would be searchable by his name. But when I discovered it did, I didn't care because I tried to set up a meeting with my next T and him to discuss this, he got all pissy and my other T at the time said it wasn't in my best interest. My old T was being defensive and my new T didn't think he would be truthful with me, plus he said some thing about me that my T at the time wouldn't tell me because he felt it was his job to protect me. (it must not have been positive stuff, if my T couldn't tell me.) This made me VERY angry, I didn't do anything wrong for him to talk to me in a negative way. He was just trying save his butt, most T's I have talked to about this, can very clearly see this. He doesn't know they know the real story.

Since then I keep running into him, at very pivotal moments in my life.(he doesn't know that.) I just wanted to clear the air because I would rather it not feel so uncomfortable for the both of us.
I guess this got much longer than I intended, ( I left so much out) so I hope you could follow.

I could follow. I am sorry this happened. What I got from the story was that this man (ex-t) was afraid because he was feeling things he felt he shouldnt. #1 being your therapist and #2 being married (whichever order that should be in!). Im glad you left before the relationship went any further, but it might not have as he seems to have unleashed his fear and anger on you. The beauty of this story is what you did with this situation. You sought out another t and did trauma work on your relationship with him.

Interesting that you keep running into him.....I have to say, that when things like that happen to me, I also wonder, "can this be a coincidence, too???"

I have posted about this before, but not in a long time. I had a relationship with my t of 10 yrs a long time ago. It was intermittent and I wasnt married. But it did keep me stuck and prevented me from working on issues I really could have been delving into with a better t. He was never mean and did help me a lot with another issue. The downside of doing this was that I tried to please him a lot instead of work on me. But I was on and off involved in other relationships and then he got married. I was relieved but wondered why he never wanted to marry me. The truth was, I didnt want to get married then anyway.

One question- what did you google by his name? The new T? Im also glad you didnt see him with the new T. I cant imagine that he would have been truthful and it might have been more traumatizing for you.....

Im so sorry for all of this, Exotic

Thanks Bluemoon,

Sounds like you can relate to this. Not sure of what you meant by the google question though. I was writing poetry about him on a blog, all of us taking this class at school set one up. I was new to blogs and I didn't know that google puts that stuff in their search engine. I am not sure how I found out his name was there connected to my blog, it was so long ago. I have taken his name off, but the poems are still there. But that stuff seems to stay a long time on the net, it is still there even though I closed down that blog. a long time ago. It is complicated, these T relationships. lol

I keep thinking about this all weekend, I know my T wants to process this some more along with a hundred other things I know we need to work on. But she will be gone all the next week so I don't want to get into anything too heavy. I know she will want to talk about this because it is so huge what I did.

One thing I keep thinking about is when I talked to him he mentioned something I wrote about him on rate your doctor sort of thing. I said the he thinks he is right and can be defensive. I said if you want doctor who focuses on you, see someone else. I said if you want someone who preforms magic tricks, juggles for you and tell jokes, go to a comedy club because it is cheaper. He may not have liked my comments, but it IS true.

I truly meant it, the sessions always seem to focus on him in the later stages, it felt like I was his T. He spend much of the hour with his rants, or his philosophical arguments or him joking around.

Now since him, I have had two T's who has put me first and we worked on issues. My 2nd T told me that therapy shouldn't have ever been that much fun. He was right. I was actually looking forward to my session because they were fun. He was a fun guy and I liked to have fun. I could see if I was a very quiet client or a child and he was trying to get me to open up to talk or something, and maybe those things would help some. But I was always engaged, had no problem talking especially with things we talked about. I guess I still look back on this and wonder why I stayed as long as I did. I guess it was hard not to leave.

He would never believe me when I said that I wasn't okay. He would say something to the effect that I am just on a different level or something. How could he not see that I had a lot of issues from my childhood? Sure it looked like on the surface I was doing well, honor student, playing the trumpet, exercising, etc. , but that didn't mean I was "okay".

I have told both my T's after him not to be sucked into the illusion that I was okay because I was doing really good things in my life according to a lot of people's standards, but it was avoidance or a running away from the real issues. It was much easier to study for test, practice for a performance, etc. then to deal with traumatic memories of abuse and torture. I think this is all because he lost his objectivity in working with me, he saw what he wanted to see. He once said that he did a damn good job with me. I was thinking we only touched the surface of my issues. I tried to tell him but he wasn't listening.

My current T is so centered on me, it is rather scary at times. The focus has never been on her, and that sure leaves a lot of time for therapy. lol Sometimes it feels like too much time when you are in the "hot seat." But I feel I am doing good work that is helping me. I could laugh all day with her too, but that wouldn't help me with my issues.

I just can't hurt him like he hurt me.

i understand how that feels Flower.... the best revenge is making a choice to live a good life anyway and in inspiring others to respect themself, health for all wins.... you are a good person

Thanks Nowhere as always for your support. I am trying so hard to feel good about what I did. I have such conflicting emotions right now, I am SO glad I can see my T tomorrow. I feel like I opened a can of woop *** and a can of worms at the same time. lol

I understand now the google thing. You had the blog with his name in it. I actually googled someone I had been looking for and found a poem by her on another person's website. Google seems to grab the weirdest things.

I can understand you writing that review, and truthfully, I think it may help someone else. I dont think there is anything wrong with what you wrote. Dt also did this weird rant thing when I was there, taking up too much time on politics (especially for someone who shared so little of herself). I didnt really care what her views were, and then minimizing my difficulties, just like your ex-t. If there was anything that I felt was damaging, it was the minimizing stuff. I questioned myself and my feelings a lot when she did that. I remember she once said to me, "Well, your are a little depressed, with occasional, fleeting suicidal thoughts." Occasional? Fleeting? Was she for real? Was she not listening?

I like what you told your new t about not missing important things about you b/c you exercise and play trumpet (so cool, btw!). And it sure IS a whole other ballgame being in the hotseat and having the focus on you and your issues. Maybe there was a part of both of us that felt relieved that the T show was taking up so much time and we didnt have to work on the hard stuff? I even think there was some relief (along with dis-belief) when she interpreted things in a wrong way. It wasnt that I didnt want her to understand and help me, I did, but when she was so way off the mark, I think a part of me felt, Oh, good, I can still hide....

Bluemoon,

Yes! I think you nailed that one, it was relieving watching the T-show! And boy as he a performer! lol It is really hard to work on real issues when the T is avoiding them with THEIR stuff. Now I enjoyed it, yes I did, it was fun but it wasn't what I was paying him for. But this was my first time in therapy, I didn't know what to expect.

His thing he would say all the time is "life isn't a **** sandwich." and my response would be, no you're right, it is a DOUBLE DECKER **** SANDWICH!

I know I am more willing to tell my T everything, even when I know I am doing something and how to help me. I would give clues like dont' let me do this or that, etc.
I can talk to almost anyone till the cows come home, and I am very good at avoiding the real issue by talking about something else. It is what helped me survive the reality I was living in as a child. But my T is good, she watches me like a hawk it seems, at my body language, etc. She listens very well too. It is like being in a hot seat, but in a healing way. She is gentle with me when I need it but knows how to push me too when I need that too. I can't wait to see her. The person I hope NOT to see during my fitness class tomorrow is my old T. I don't think I am ready for that, even though we in a sense cleared the air.

i think if you just hold your ground right now Flower... you've asserted your sense of self-hood and individual person and T1 is in a position where, even if only for professional face-saving, needs to validate your place and position on things... take your time and step thru it carefully with new T, they sound very much more supportive of you than T1... in my experience, learning and T, i need to be able to accept whatever truth presents itself in the moment and deal with it in my own place at that time.... later down the path i might discover some new revelation that will at that time affect both my current and future understandings... as long as i prevent becoming the harmer and remain willing to be the student as well as my own individual, i am opened to new discoveries and understandings... whats key is contributing to a safe environment that myself and others will feel comfortable in to explore our honest feelings... i hope this helps and wishing all the best for you

Thanks so much Nowhere,

I have T in just a few hours, I know we will talk about this and I know I need to maybe do some EMDR on some of that anger. That intense anger is telling me something and I find if I truly feel what I am feeling (which is new to me) it gets me to someplace of understanding myself or my feelings.
For me I have PTSD, so numbing my emotions is something I do without even thinking about it. So when an emotions is "hot" my T has found to go with it in the here and now. I know my T wants to have me settle down before she leaves on vacation, but this is something that has to be dealt with. She did tell me I could see her another time this week, since she will is gone all next week. I am thinking of diving right in with the hard stuff today and hopefully doing a more meditative and calming appointment before she leaves.
My mother in law is coming to live with us for 2 weeks over Thanksgiving, (for the first time) plus I have 30 people coming over to eat that day. I need some sense of calmness or I will burst I think. She isn't the most nicest of MIL's if you know what I mean. Plus I have a term paper and a short story to write before Thanksgiving. The list goes on and on.
Thanks so much for talking with me, I enjoy talking to you and listening to your insights on this and other things. I talk about my T being new, but really I have been working with her for a year now. It doesn't seem like it though. I just need to keep plugging along, and trying to do my best, and live who I was meant to be.

I think that was going on with dt, and I was paying for this? She was avoiding MY issues with HER issues!

I can do the same, chat on and on and avoid what is really going on. You sound like you have a great T who knows you. 1 year isnt new in my book! Its a while. She has gotten to know you.

You have A LOT going on! Thats a lot of company...and the MIL as well! Jeez....and the term paper and short story.....

Big hugs and lots of STRENGTH to you!

Thanks BlueMoon!

I had my session today and I had trouble assessing my emotions. I feel RAGE and I told her, but like she said she would never know it by looking at me. She said I am a pro at masking my feelings. I have learned to mask my emotions so well, for having them as a child would have been dangerous for me. But for the longest time I couldn't even tell her what it was I felt. Even during the hard stuff like EMDR, I have tears, but not gut wrenching cries. (the cries that I know I have inside, like the rage.) But for me and those tears she sees, are like magnified 100 times inside of me. Tears were dangerous to me as a child, so even showing a little of that surprises me.

We talked about so many things concerning my first T it sort of feels like a whirlwind. I think he knows how I feel because he has seen my poetry and other things on the net. But I don't think he accepts his responsibilities for what he did. And when he wished me luck with my future, etc on that phone call, it sounds like those typical greeters when you walk into *****art or something. It didn't sound genuine. We talked alot about his behaviors and it seems like we have come to the conclusion that he is really removed from his own feelings. Even my 2nd T who was a close colleague thought so. He told me once that a lot of T's become so desensitized to human emotions, it is hard for them. He told me he still has kept his warmth for his clients and if he ever didn't feel that way, he would quit. We often talked about this on how my first T was rather cold. I asked my first T how he can stay so uninvolved with clients feelings, and he told me he doesn't get involved with them in the first place. He also has low self esteem, he puts his body down, he says If I really knew him I would not like him, etc. Plus when you find a male who acts like they have this huge ego, it is really masking insecurities. He is smart but he uses that to make himself feel above others. He made lots of comments about stupid people who he say annoy him. She has seen this behavior when she has met with him in T groups once in awhile.
I talked about how this spiritual connection I feel with him used to feel really good, gave me a sense of comfort, but now it is laden with pain. It hurts to still feel connected to him in this way, I just want to cut him out of me somehow.

It is one thing for someone close to you like a relative or friend to hurt you, but when it comes to a T who does this, it is astronomically painful. We should be able to trust them and by giving the vulnerability that we do to work on ourselves, makes it all the more important for them to stay objective. When we lose that, when T's hurt their clients ethically, it cuts very DEEP to the core. It feels worse than what my abusive parents did to me. I consider myself a very strong person most of the time and knowing the hurt that I feel because of him, it isn't hard for me to see that a lot of times these kinds of situations result in much more severe tragedy.

I told my T that I just wanted to sit on top of him and make him look at me and make him listen to me on how his actions hurt me. But I think he would still be in denial of it.
My T said what I did was HUGE with apologizing for what I did, even though the stuff he did to me was 100times worse. I faced it and him and I can hold my head of high, I am not a bad person, I just got angry at him and did some embarrassing things. But at least I acknowledged MY wrong doing, what is his excuse? Who looks like the real *** now?
Sorry for rambling on and on. I see her again on Thurs. to tie up everything so I can survive through Thanksgiving and my classes. Whew!