T Tonight: It started with sadness coming out, then ended with confusion coming in!

Well, I did it! I went in and told T that I had to let out this sadness tonight. I asked T if she would sit on the couch with me, she said yes. We did talk a bit about why I wanted that, first - I said it was because I was self-conscious and didn't want her staring at me while I bawled, and I told her the core of it really was that I didn't want to be alone with these feelings when they came out. So T asked if she should just join me on the couch then, I agreed - so she did, she said we'd just have this session on the couch! It was kind of different to have T that close, but I liked it. So then I asked T if she remembered me telling her about my fantasy about her holding me while I cried - so we talked about that, T said she was open to doing that. She rubbed my arm a bit, I think to put me more at ease and to establish some physical contact before jumping fully into holding me.

So then it was a matter of accessing the sadness without forcing it - it took a few minutes of talking, and then I reread the letter from my little ones to T that I'd read in last week's session - one line in particular really did the trick, and BAM! - I just let that sadness come out. I don't know how long I cried, probably only for a few minutes. I kinda leaned forward and covered my face with my hands at first and sobbed so hard, my body was shaking. T put one arm around me and her other hand on my arm closest to her - at one point, I leaned my head in to rest on her shoulder, and she really held me then, just kinda enveloped me more in her arms. I was focused on letting out my sadness, but I wanted to remember what it felt like to cry and have T hold me like that - did it ever feel safe! I felt so loved and protected. It was hard for me to pull back, but I did, and we talked more about the sadness. At one point, I started crying hard again and just put my head down - T reached over and put her hand on the back of my head and also rubbed my arm. It all felt as healing as I thought it would feel. And T was right there with me the entire time, I felt so connected to her.

I don't remember exactly how, but at some point T turned the talk about the sadness and my childhood and the relationship with my mother to sex and relationships with men and my weight. I was so not in the mindset to discuss any of that tonight, but I went there, thinking T would make a connection with it all - and she did, that this longing I have could be filled by a partner, it doesn't have to be a mother, that's just what I've always identified it with since I was a child. But T then pointed out that she sees how important it is to me to be in a relationship, and she said that's why she had really pushed me fast on the sex stuff a few sessions ago (and for those of you who don't know, that led to a major rupture). T kept asking me difficult questions about my weight, and then T said that she thinks my weight is the source of all my pain. I didn't even know how to respond to that!

So I told T that there were other things I wanted to discuss, but we could wait until my session on Wednesday (thank God for twice-a-week sessions!). I told T that my little ones wrote her a letter about her being the 'new mommy', and she wanted to hear it, so I read it with about 5 minutes left. After I read it, T commented that my little girl was really forgiving of her. I asked what she meant, and T went into this discussion that just blew my mind - T said that she sometimes feels at a loss for words with me, that she feels like she's constantly letting me down, and that I should be upset with her for that. I told T that she's too hard on herself, and then T told me that we were now enacting my mother's and my's relationship. I told T that I try hard to be mindful of that and not to do that, but that it didn't change the fact that she is being too hard on herself! T said she felt like she took me in some wrong directions in session tonight, and that we're acting out some kind of dynamic, falling into some pattern, that it's a good thing because it will show us something, she's just not sure what yet, but T said she'd figure it out. I was completely floored by this, and also kinda upset that I didn't really get any closure on what I considered to be my biggest accomplishment thus far in therapy. And now, the more I think about it, the more I realize that (as usual) T saw before I realized that I wasn't happy with the direction she took tonight's session. But as for her being at a loss for words sometimes - I totally don't get that, I never feel that from her. She said it's meaningful, how?

So, I was left feeling very confused at the end, and I feel like that overshadowed my big emotional release at the beginning of the session... and I still didn't feel like I was done crying, or maybe I just wanted to be held by T more! Thank goodness I see T again on Wednesday, we have A LOT to discuss!!!

Thank you for letting us know how it went tonight. I am glad you were able to let some of the sadness out and that your T comforted you in the way you wanted her to. The end of the session did sound confusing but perhaps it will be a point to start at on Wednesday. Maybe, if your T thinks that your relationship with her mirrors your relationship as a child with your mother, that you don't see that she is sometimes stuck for words, just as a child rarely questions what a mother says? Feeling that she sometimes fails you is her experience but you see it differently. I think I have thoroughly confused myself now!

Look after yourself and I hope that the session on Wednesday can build on tonight.

Your story has to be one of the most touching sessions I have ever read about. You said you wanted to do discuss this and you DID! That is amazing in itself. I think you know this is just a beginning of this subject I think.

I think your T is seeing a part of herself that is responding to you as counter-transference, who know it could be her as a mother or maybe her as a daughter, there is probably some kind of dynamic at play. I think it was obvious in the previous stuff that happened with her and you. I am not sure if she should be thinking this out loud in front of you. Therapy should be about you, not her reactions. She should deal with those on her own. You can see how it did take away from the amazing job you did tonight. This should have been all about you and deserved a nice ending to that.

YOu did awesome Dreamer, I think your T is just now seeing just how awesome you are, and she is maybe feeling like you deserve so much more than her for a T.

I don't know...for me, in the end it's helpful to me when T talks about his countertransference. I'm way WAY tuned into every little nuance (with him and everyone else) and I'd be able to "read" that something was going on anyhow. T got really emotinally wrapped up in something that was going on with me last fall (2008) and we weren't getting ANYWHERE in therapy. It was like he wasn't hearing me, and I was going downhill FAST. He was finally able to step back and look at his own reactions - he realized he was scared and didn't want me to be in such a bad place, so he was almost ignoring how bad things were. Once he realized that, and admitted it, I finally understood why he didn't hear me, he started hearing me, and things got better. And it wasn't ME, it was HIM right then, and it was helpful to know that - it took a huge weight off of my shoulders.

I agree about the timing, though. I'm sorry you weren't able to bask longer in your big accomplishment, ((((((((dream))))))))). Try to remember it's not either/or...it's and/both. You did this amazing thing and got the comforting you wished for and it felt really good AND T went off on an unhelpful tangent. BOTH are true.

Many many to you. I hope you can rest well tonight!

Wow, what an incredible session!!! You are so lucky to have a T that is so willing to provide you with that physical and emotional support at a time when you need it. My T would never....while I cry, he just sits there on his chair, sometimes turning his head to let me cry without being stared at....maybe says a few soft spoken words...But that's about all.

As far as the confusion part, it is hard putting the pieces together....and you still have missing pieces....so try to take it easy on yourself. Savor the moments that were accomplishments - and the rest will fall into place.

(( HUGS ))

Thanks, everyone!

That could be - I told T that it wasn't like I was going to stop her mid-sentence and ask that we not talk about something before I knew what she was going to say, if it was meaningful - she kinda laughed at that. The last few minutes of the session were just a jumble of confusion!

exotic, that means so much - I've read some incredibly touching accounts from very emotional sessions on these boards.
I definitely agree that whatever is going on with T must be some counter-transference at work. I'm very grateful that T wants to try so hard to figure out what it is. And while I do agree that I deserved a nice ending tonight, I am glad that T does point out her reactions to me, to a degree. My T is a big believer in paying attention to how she's responding to me as a way of telling how others relate to me, and I agree with that. She did apologize and said she didn't want to unload on me. I just wish she hadn't told me all about that tonight, so we'd have more time to talk about it, and so I could've stayed with my focus on letting out this sadness.

Tree, that helps - I started questioning myself after the session - was it something that I did that made T react that way? But I really think it was her. I am feeling angry, though - here we had this huge moment of connection, something I've fantasized about happening - and then it happens, and then T tells me that I should be disappointed in her because she keeps letting me down? We have a lot to talk about on Wednesday!

The upside, as Tree pointed out, is that both of these events did happen (thank you, Tree) - one doesn't take away from the other. I had the courage to release those emotions, scary as that was. AND a huge part of tonight was that T was there for me, every step of the way, and gave me everything I asked for - she listened, she held me, she sat next to me. That is HUGE. Like MUE wrote, I do feel so fortunate to have a T who will give me all of those things.

Hey Dreamer, maybe "I" am having some sort of transference because of your T. In my life I wondered why I never got the attention, someone was always getting it all or would take it away from me when I so desperately needed it.

So I guess I related your story of what your T did at the end of the session, to being a child and needed that reinforcement of doing something good and then someone comes and takes it away. I guess I just want to stomp my feet for you in front of your T.

So there Dreamseeker's T! , this is for you and all the clients who needed a better ending to their sessions! Okay I feel better now.

I guess I think it is important for me too, to know what is going on with my T because I usually feel it anyway. I am just being overly emotional right now.

exotic

I can see how this issue would stir up the transference. And thanks for sticking up for me!

I woke up very early and couldn't get back to sleep, I just kept replaying the session in my head, and also everything I want to say tomorrow. I keep thinking, why did T think I was open to going in that direction in the session? Why did she want to get away from my childhood and move to present-day issues?

And I'm also asking myself if T feels the connection between us as strongly as I do - it seems like she didn't fully appreciate the enormity of what took place for me last night. I don't think I've ever been more vulnerable in front of another human being ever, between the sobbing and allowing her to physically and emotionally comfort me. So for T to tell me at the end that she keeps letting me down and that I should be upset about that - why does she want me to focus on the negatives and not the positives? Why can't she see what a big moment that was for me? Was it not a big moment of connection for her?

Tomorrow's session can't come soon enough - I can't wait to get this all out on the table and just hack away at it with T!

Dreamer! Good morning!

You know I am thinking your T does know how significant yesterday was for you in session. It was a very emotional session, a very touching session for both of you. I think she was feeling some real emotion towards you that must have really got to her on a level she didn't expect. I think it was overwhelming for her and that is why in the end, she just got out of her role. I see it in my T sometimes, it is hard to work with this kind of stuff on this level without feeling for a client. Maybe it is healing her too, to give herself to you like she did yesterday, I think sometimes therapy is a two way street. I think today will clear that up for you I hope. I hope she can feel okay about her feelings for you, and not go cold on you or pull away. (that is what my first T would do because it caught him off guard)

Good luck today!

Thanks for sharing dream. It made me feel all warm reading about how she comforted you. My T hugs me, I just so wish we had a couch! I'd love to be just held. It sounded very safe

Good morning, exotic and lily!

Exotic, thank you for that perspective. I've been wondering if it was something I did. I absolutely want to ask T at my next session what she felt when she was holding me - I think it's very fair of me to ask that, given she opened up about her reactions to me. I want to know when she felt at a loss of words, and when she felt that she let me down - because in those moments when I just let go, and let her comfort me - she did not let me down, just the opposite. But I was wondering if she didn't feel the connection like I did... it never occurred to me that she might have felt it more than she anticipated. T did tell me yesterday, before I let out the sadness, that it would be good for me to see her as just another person, and not as my therapist, as far as me worrying what is appropriate - she said she'd let me know when I ask or want or do something that's inappropriate. She said she's human, and she reacts like any human does... so maybe you are spot on, exotic! I really don't see her pulling away, though - she's been so honest so far with her feelings, which I truly do appreciate, so I hope she keeps that up. And I wish my session were today, but it's tomorrow evening, unfortunately!

lily Yes, it felt very safe - I felt very protected, though I'm not sure from what. I'm glad you get good hugs from your T!

I'm in the worst mood today. The weather outside is nasty, I'm tired, I'm grumpy, I'm having cramps, and I want answers from T! Maybe this mood is okay for this evening's session, it might serve me well.

I really want T to explain a lot of things to me that she said at the end of Monday's session. Why is she at a loss of words sometimes with me, and when exactly did that happen? When did she think she let me down, and why does she continue to do it and point it out to me before I even realize it's happened? Did she not feel the connection between us that I felt on Monday? Did she not realize the significance of me asking her to sit with me and hold me while I let out those powerful emotions, all that sadness? Why didn't we stay with that topic?

I've also realized that I really don't want to discuss the topic of my weight with T. Whenever she brings it up now, my defenses go up, and I want to crawl behind the couch and hide so she can't see me, I feel like she's looking at me and judging me, even if it's subconsciously. I hate that feeling. I'm so ashamed. I know that means there's a lot of material there to discuss, but not tonight - I can't do it tonight. And I'll have to tell her that.

dear Dreamseeker,

Sorry that I can't change any of that, but I just wanted to give you a hug, if that's OK. A

Ask those questions of yr T. You deserve to explore them until you feel you can accept her answers.

I think it's great that you've found support here for your journey. I don't, though, think it's necessarily great that you've received the personal touch from T. From my perspective it seems that you've focused so much on the physical aspect of being touched by her. The reality is that T cannot fill that void/longing, yet you keep insisting on her physical touch, and, it seems, in greater amounts each time: first it was a hug, then sitting on the couch, then being held, etc. She gives this to you, and now you're ready to go in and rip her one for not being in tune with you. This may very well hurt her feelings since she's extended herself way beyond the usual boundaries of therapy. (And I know folks will say we don't have to worry about our Ts' feelings, but I do worry about how my reactions in my sessions may hurt my own T. It doesn't overwhelm me to the point of not saying what I need to, but I say stuff with her feelings in mind as well.)

I'm concerned for you because there may very well come a moment when your T will say, "I can't keep giving that to you." What will your plan be, then? To rip her one for not continuing to touch you? The hard work is grieving for your lost childhood (understanding that what you didn't get cannot be obtained elsewhere) and facing its present-day effects.

My final thought is that your T, I believe, is incorrect in saying that you can fill this need with a partner. Nothing can fill the void of not getting what you needed in childhood other than finding a way to fill it internally. That is the ultimate outcome in therapy, in my opinion, because, indeed, that is the final healing.

Hope you're not too hard on your T today and hope others are not too hard on me for expressing this.

Peace,
writing

(deep breaths)
writing, I don't think it's your place to judge what goes on between me and my T. You're not in that room with us. Only my T and I can judge what will help me heal, and only my T and I can set our own boundaries.

I am certainly not going to "go in and rip her one" today. One of my issues is that I have trouble even expressing anger. Am I angry with T? Yes. Why? Because she pushed me on an issue that I wasn't ready to deal with, instead of helping me bring closure to the main issue discussed on Monday. I deserve to know why she changed course in the middle of the session, especially since at the end of the session T told me out of the blue that she'd let me down and that she'd steered us wrong a few times in that session. I see nothing wrong with me asking T to clarify those statements, and I am quite capable of doing it without being too hard on her.

I would never intentionally hurt my T's feelings. I care about my T, and I treat her with respect. T has asked me to tell her when she says or does something I don't understand or I don't like - we've worked through all these issues, and our relationship has grown stronger as a result of that. I am able to express myself to T while keeping her feelings in mind. In fact, T has told me that I consider her feelings too much sometimes, much like I had to always consider my mother's feelings growing up - T has tried to get me away from that behavior.

One of the pitfalls of posting about our sessions is that we can't possibly capture everything said in that session, so it is easy for others to make assumptions or judgements based on what they read, as you have done. The conversation T and I had about the sadness or longing went deeper than T just saying that it could be filled by a partner. Of course we talked about me being the one to fill it! T and I have also talked about what will happen if I ask for something that T doesn't feel is appropriate, so I am prepared for that to happen, though I don't plan on asking T for anything more than I've already received.

((((((((((((dream))))))))))))

I just wanted to say that I think your T sounds so wonderful and committed to your healing. I have seen her help you make great progress and access those inner, vulnerable parts of you. Working on this rupture is important, and you are so brave in your willingness to go for the difficult things with your T. You have thought carefully about boundaries and since you are a huggy person, I think T considered her choices and made a good decision in allowing physical contact. She is there for you, she thinks ahead for you, she tries to do what's right for your mental health.

I hope your session goes very well tonight.

Dream- for some reason I want to reply without (deliberately) reading other responses. I'll give my impressions, fwiw, it could be completely off base.

What a powerful session! T feels very connected to you as you do to her. And you are ALLOWING her to re-mother you. It is not a bad thing. She is and you are allowing this re-experiencing in a safe way. Especially the sadness. Then, after the sadness is out, she has experienced it with you, she takes you to someplace that can relieve the sadness. Weight and food and relationships. I see you as someone who would thrive in the right relationship. Maybe this is T's impresssion of you? The concept of your weight being the source of your pain confuses me, too. The feelings/actions that keep the weight on might be, but the weight itself, to my mind, is a symptom more than a source. Though the weight itself can hold people back, no matter what weight and be the more obvious source of pain (Im trying to understand what she might have meant). Unless....you are picking up on HER weight issues and issues with a person being overweight. It may NOT be only your issue. Just a thought. I thought that SO many times with dt, that after these last months of reflecting on it, there is no doubt that she had food/weight issues and was unable to deal well with mine.

Im glad you changed directions during the session to what you had in mind to talk to her about It sounds like your little ones wrote a very touching letter to her, they love her and maybe she saw that love, after the rupture, as deeply forgiving of her. AND she may be such a skilled therapist that when she is at a loss for words, it is not obvious to you....or she find something she believes to be just as relevent to say even if she feels it isnt the right thing to say/do with you. Was it the weight/relationship/sex thing that you didnt want to talk about that she picked up on?

My feeling is, that even if it is an issue, what is pushing at you now is the mommy sadness and your little ones. And what they have to say. The issues around weight and sex will push at you when you are really ready to go there. Or even to say something about how you feel when she pushes and the weight issue. I dont know how you might word it, but you might convey to her that your concerns and fears about her bringing this topic up repeadly is that if she finds it to be such an OBVIOUS block to your progress, it must be because she has strong feelings about how you look.

I have to add, on the flip side, ftt does this in every session. From self-hate to food and weight. BUT it does lead me into the sadness and feelings of my childhood pain and why I am compelled to act out with food (which is not what you may be doing). I dont get annoyed with ftt for doing it, b/c I KNOW my ED can lead me to where I need to go with trauma b/c it is such an OBVIOUS symptom. I "wear" my issues wherever I go. Could it be that T sees you that way? Even if you dont see weight/food/sex that way?

Jexa, thank you so much. T told me tonight that even though she sees that I'm a strong woman, she also sees me as vulnerable and fragile - this really surprised me, I've always taken such care to make sure no one thinks of me that way - I consider it a bad thing, but T thinks it's good, she said she sees me this way because of how open I am with her.

It was a terrific session, I expressed my feelings and got all my questions answered, and T offered to me how she was feeling. What was fascinating was that where I felt T had let me down was not the same as where she thought she'd let me down. Before I released all that sadness on Monday, T and I were talking - she interrupted me at one point, just as I was about to let loose and cry. It didn't bother me, though - she even apologized, and I laughed! But it really bothered her, it stuck with her. And then when I was crying and she was comforting me, she didn't really say anything except make sympathetic noises, and I was totally fine with that. But T said that's when she felt at a loss for words, that she felt like she let me down by not saying something soothing to me then. She was surprised and glad to hear that I considered it such a healing and positive experience. I asked her why she focused on the negatives at the end of the session and not the positives, and how I thought maybe it was because she didn't feel our connection - but T said she did feel the connection, and if anything, she felt like she didn't comfort me enough!

I told T that I didn't like the direction the session had taken, she said she'd made a mistake but was trying to get me to open up more and get past some of my self-loathing and see that I'm ready to love if that's what I really want. I will write more about this in response to Blue's post below.

Thanks for the support, my PC friends - it really does mean a lot!

We talked about this tonight, too, and we will be talking about it for a long time, I have a feeling! I think the holidays are also stirring up a lot for me - I have 3 more sessions before I spend a lot of time with my family. T and I talked briefly tonight about how I'll handle my mother criticizing my weight, as she always does - we need to spend some more time on that before the holidays! But as far as my weight and trauma, I think T has a much better idea than I gave her credit for, and a better idea than I did, about where my weight issues come from. She may not completely understand what it's like to actually be overweight, but she's able to understand how to help me heal from the issues that led me to become overweight. And that is what will make all the difference!

When I read this, I saw my own struggle. That is exactly what it is:
Just a thought. For both of us- I wasnt terribly overweight as a child (though I was told I was...another issue) but I believe for the simple reason that, although I was deep in shame, I had not yet discovered how perfectly food and eating would stuff my feelings of shame. How it could do what it did later, which would be to override feelings of shame and numb me to most feelings. When I was older and more sophisiticated, even as a teen and young adult, I learned how I could use food/eating to numb my feelings. Shame about anything, childhood, my body, how I felt about myself, then shame about that, shame upon shame upon shame because I felt originally, bad, worthless and shameful. Maybe this is what T meant? That is exactly the issue I am working on now with ftt. Shame that keeps me from being able to talk about it all while I feel it. Without feelings, I feel less shame while talking. I also use food to cover the feelings of not feeling loved as a child.

Quote:

We talked about this tonight, too, and we will be talking about it for a long time, I have a feeling! I think the holidays are also stirring up a lot for me - I have 3 more sessions before I spend a lot of time with my family. T and I talked briefly tonight about how I'll handle my mother criticizing my weight, as she always does - we need to spend some more time on that before the holidays! But as far as my weight and trauma, I think T has a much better idea than I gave her credit for, and a better idea than I did, about where my weight issues come from. She may not completely understand what it's like to actually be overweight, but she's able to understand how to help me heal from the issues that led me to become overweight. And that is what will make all the difference!

This is really powerful. I would imagine, if you are like me, and the food/weight issue has been your drug of choice to cover shame for a looooong time, you'll be talking about it for a looooong time! Your T sounds smart She knows how your little ones have been helping you so you dont feel shame.
Im sorry that you have to be with your mother criticizing your weight. That could be rough. What will you do? Can you make phone calls to friends who would understand? Can you call T? Do you live close by so you can go home? I hope you will post and post and post. I would find that excruciating. Its like returning to the scene of the crime.

I came from a family like that as well...aunts, uncles, cousins, my body was everyone's business. And I was put under a microscope. I have spent 50 yrs trying to escape. And Ill spend the next 50 trying as well. I was surprised that ftt said to me that she understood why I was relieved that my parents are dead. Very, very few people I have ever met in my life could validate me with that. I think dt was trying to pull some compassion for her out of me. She was waaaay to early for that. I'll be at that point when Im 80.