is it bad to call T and not answer the return call?

I called my T just a little bit ago and left her a message. I kind of really don't want to answer when (if? ) she calls back because I want her to leave me a message that I can listen to again later. Assuming I like what she says, lol.

anyway, is that rude, to call her and then not answer her return call? I'm not sui or anything, it wasn't that kind of CRISIS message that I left her. I basically just told her how I'm feeling and what I need her to tell me. I'd like to talk to her when she calls back, but even more than that I'd like the message so I can listen to it again.

what say you, PC??

I think that is absolutely fine.........I understand completely.xxxx

I think it's fine...but i also wonder, could you just ask her to please leave you a message?

I agree with T. Could you ask her to leave you a message and tell her its because you want to be able to listen to it. She probably will think that is a good idea.

haven't posted in awhile, but Zoo, I used to do this all the time. I could never just call and ask him to leave a message that i could listen to, what if he said "No", can't handle the rejection, but i would call and not answer just for the same reason. To be able to hear his voice and like you said depending what he said, to be able to keep the message and listen to it later made me feel connected when i felt unconnected.... hope this makes sense

The thing is that if you don't answer the phone & unless you ask her to leave a message, she might not leave a message for fear that someone else will be using your phone & will hear the message because what goes on between patient & T is private......just a thought????

I think you just have to be honest about what you want by calling her. She may not leave a message because she is expecting to speak to you directly.

It is not wrong or bad, but I think it is going in the opposite direction from trust; taking something from someone without their knowledge and using it in a self-absorbed way. That kind of comfort comes with a price you may not want. You are not learning to trust yourself and practice learning your own self-soothing skills (babies have to be left to cry before sleep so they can learn to make the transition into sleep by themselves) and you are collaborating with the dangerous twin fantasies that you can have T anytime you want and that T is her voice.

I am terribly scared to phone my pdoc and i find it much easier to send an e-mail. Or I phone when i think she'll be busy. then when she replies, I can just not answer. i get shy or something

I have to respectfully disagree. My three boys learned to sleep on their own without ever being left to cry. I was able to meet their needs for nighttime parenting, and they were able to transition to sleeping through the night, in their rooms, on their own and in their own time.

In the same way, I think that as we are learning to self-soothe, it is okay to ask T to meet some needs that T is able to meet. Can T come home with me and take care of me 24/7? No. But he can leave me a phone message to help me hang onto the connection between sessions. I know I can't have T anytime I want, and I know that T is not his voice. And I also know that, for me, learning to hang onto the safety of the connection has been a process, and T has been more than willing to leave me phone messages to help me through that process.

I am really of the belief that when our needs are met, we will come to a point of being able to meet our own needs in our own time. When I started therapy, I was "independent" to the point of ridiculousness. I was SO independent that it made me sick enough to have to go to therapy because I was slipping quickly into an abyss I didn't think I could pull myself out of. Over time, as I developed trust in T, I became quite dependent. I couldn't "have" T all of the time, but I did rely on him quite a bit to meet needs I never even knew I had. It didn't happen overnight, but I am gradually becoming interdependent. I am able to live in the world now in a much more gentle and authentic way. I am better able to identify what I can handle myself and what I need help with. I am willing to let myself be vulnerable enough to admit to the people around me that just as they need my help, I need theirs. Allowing T to care for me with gentleness and authenticity is part of how I learned that.

I do think that asking to have my needs met is one of the biggest lessons I learned in therapy. Zoo, I totally get needing a message from T, and being scared to ask for it. Asking is taking a risk. I wonder if next time, you will feel safe enough to take that risk? For me, asking to have my needs met is very empowering.

I have several clients that have told me they ask for a message just for wanting a voice message back. Problem is - if they don't tell me this - I leave a very, very general message of "I received your call and you can call me back or we'll talk in session". However, if I get a voicemail stating - I was hoping you could just leave words of encouragement for me to make it through the week, I do so.
I think it's important to meet your needs, and to do so, you need to be very direct in what they are.

The problem here is that she didn't ask for a message to be left, so it's quite possible it won't be left. If you are really asking for you needs to be met, you have to be up-front and clear about it rather than having wishful thinking that maybe the t will do what you want even though you didn't directly ask for it. It just leaves a person open to disappointment this way, IMO. I guess what I'm saying is it may not be "wrong" to do what she did, but it may be a very ineffective way to get needs met.

Yes, but not to "steal" it from her.

Oh, I totally agree with this. I was just responding to Perna's comment about babies crying/using self-soothing instead of a message from T. And then I guess it dovetailed into the fact that I've found it empowering to learn how to ask T (and others) to help me meet my needs.

It really is a learning process.

well, this thread took an interesting and unexpected turn. I really appreciate all of your feedback

Perna, I find myself recoiling at your use of the word "steal", but I understand your point. I agree it would be healthier to ask up front for what I need. I am working on that, and I'm making progress, but it's scary. Like JB said, there is the risk of rejection if she says no.

So T actually called me back last night before there were any replies to this thread, so I just went with what my gut and didn't answer. But, her message just said that she saw I called but was unable to listen to the voicemail I left, so could I please call her back.

I should add that in the past my T has left long and involved messages for me, not specifically for me to save and listen to again (because I have never asked for that...) but she doesn't have a problem leaving me a longer message.

Anyway, I called her back and we talked for a little bit, and it was good.

I think, for me, it will be a HUGE step forward to ask for a message from her specifically for the purpose of listening to it again. I am just starting to be able to ask for what I need from T, for instance telling her what I need her to say, etc, and this feels like another step in that journey. So far every time I have asked to have a need met, she has done so willingly and with compassion. I'm going to ask her to leave me a message the next time I need her to, instead of "tricking" her into it.

thanks for helping me sort through this, PC

Zoo - that is a HUGE step forward! Good for you!!!

That is a huge step forward! Identifying the need and actively asking for it to be met is BIG!!!!