[with or without you]

(don't read this if you are feeling particularly vulnerable w/ your own T)







After reading many people's stories on here for the past month, I came to the conclusion that I have been experiencing heavy, unwanted transference towards my therapist since ca. 2003. I have a phone session with her tomorrow, and I know that she is going to use that term.

I honestly never knew there was even such a thing, because I really don't know anyone else who is in therapy. And I was mortified to bring it up in any of our visits, obviously because I felt ashamed of it, and also because I suffer from social phobia, which amplifies those feelings of shame 1000x over. Bringing it up has been totally out of the question for me. I have told her that I am "extremely curious" about her, but that was all I was comfortable with offering at the time.

It has been really troubling to deal with, because I thought I was in love with her. But then I realized I had the same feelings with a previous therapist over 10 years ago. (I am female, and both of these therapists are too). It feels almost like a "crush", I can't stop thinking about her, I am intensely curious about her all the time.

After acknowledging these feelings, I ultimately realized that she is taking up way too big of a place inside of me. She has never done anything to make me feel that way at all. She has been nothing but professional during our entire relationship and has done nothing to ever make me uncomfortable...we have never had any ruptures. This is totally my own conclusion. I always want her validation of all of my feelings and anxieties, I crave it, and now I see that I need to gradually replace my feelings for her with other people, like more confidants I guess.

So I wrote it all down, it took 25 pages to write everything I wanted to say. I concluded that I am not in love with her, I am not physically attracted to her and have never fantasized of doing anything with her. I don't even really "love" her at all......it's more of a deep caring and admiration, but it's not the same as my feelings toward my friends and family. I also listed everything I wonder about her in detail, e.g. "I wonder what she was like as a kid", "I wonder what she likes to do for fun", "I wonder if she was on a different career path as a young person", "I wonder how old she is", "I wonder if she still has any hopes and dreams unfulfilled", etc. etc. etc. I then wondered if all these questions I have about her are really more about myself, and not actually her. I then said towards the end how I need to learn to reach out more to real friends, so I can quell my "obsessions" with her....but that this genuinely saddened me because thinking of her has given me so much comfort over the years. It was pretty emotional, probably the most emotional stuff I've ever revealed to her. It's like I've gone down into a disgusting old basement, like my grandfather's, and there are all these heavy metal reinforced doors. The doors are heavily chained up with thick rusting chains that are stuck together from all the rust, and I'm starting to saw through the chains with a hacksaw.

When I was done, I left her a voicemail telling her how I have become extremely attached and "clingy" to her, and that as much as I am a loner and want to be "tough", I really do need people. I said that from getting to know her over all these years, I realized what I wanted to look for in other people, you know, "safe" qualities in a person. I strongly urged her to read the entire "diatribe", and I was just calling to ask if it was OK to send it along to her so I wouldn't bombard her, since it's super long. She called back later and was very sweet about it, she said she would read it...and was glad I got it out on paper...so send it along.

I know this is a good thing for me to do, but I honestly have been feeling like **** ever since. Part of me thinks I made an a-hole of myself and I don't want to talk to her at all anymore. Part of me is angry at how excruciatingly slow the wait has been to speak with her in detail. Last week was pretty bad. I couldn't stop thinking about her, I kept reading over what I read, and let my apartment become a mess. I can't sleep, and feel like a basket case at times. I have had lots of difficulty concentrating on anything. I have been extremely irritable and pissed off when thinking of how long it is until we talk again. But I have not contacted her since I made the phone call above. I want to prove to myself that I can do this, I can wait. Historically, I have been someone who does not contact my T in between appointments at all. The only way to contact her is voicemail, which is good for me because it forces me to verbalize everything. I have tried doing things to distract myself...like going for walks, visiting family, doing Xmas things, but it never holds my emotions back for very long.

It's just really hard because I like her so much, but the frequency of these thoughts is unwanted. I started seeing her when I was 20 for social phobia, but then my father died a year later and I went back to college, so the therapy was focused more on grief and depression then...I was also just trying really hard not to quit school. She has helped me "grow up" in a way. She has stuck with me for everything: losing my dad, navigating through college, troubles with friends, loneliness, me hating my job, fears of intimacy, social anxiety, depressive episodes, trouble with my mom and sister, moving away from the area. Now that I am almost 30 and feel like I have come to a point where I am more stable (financially, living arrangements, etc.) I have decided it is time to just totally be real with her and not hold back. So why do I feel like such crap? I guess I've become so good at protecting myself from being truly vulnerable, so I don't have to feel this way. So I've opened the gash.

[sugahorse1]

i'm sorry to hear the amount of frustration, pain and hurt you are going through.
We (my T and I) really feel I suffer from BPD, so I know all about being 'clingy'. It took me 6 months of therapy to be able to write my T an email to tell her how much she aand our therapy meant to me. It's not love-it's just that feeling of being cared for.
I believe transference is a very real part of T-it allows you to show some weaknesses and vulnerability. It gives you something to work on with your T. It's a painful process, but really worth it, and you will grow immensely.
If you read my few posts, you'll see how I also wanted to throw the towel in. Please don't-when therapy gets painful, it's usually because you're on the brink of a break-through. Please carry on-we're here to support you between sessions. It's so important to keep at it now-you've come so far
Hugs xx

[Symbiosis]

I think I can understand how you are feeling. It was a big move and you did it! That's a good thing. Now you have only a little more of the hard part to get through--waiting until your appt. (when is it?) and the anxiety of how she is going to react.

I think you can assume things will work out just fine. You have had a 10 year relationship that shows that. But I get that it is so tough to put yourself out there in a really vulnerable way. What better place and what better person than in therapy with your T

[sittingatwatersedge]

dear WOWYou,

something you have to realize about transference. It is a normal human reaction. Everyone - Ts, people in AND out of therapy, everyone - experiences it all the time. Your brain is structured to compare and contrast, and try out connecting dots it sees, for reasons of safety, efficiency, etc, etc, and transference just IS.
It's why, when you meet certain people, you feel as if you've already known them for years.
It's the reason someone can bug the cr*p out of you but hasn't done anything to you really.
It's why, when certain things happen, you get all bent out of shape, way out of proportion to what actually happened.
It just is.

Having said iall that, you need to know that the therapeutic relationship is designed to invoke it in you - some psychotherapy "orientations", and psychiatry also, focus significantly, largely, or very largely on the transference and the psydoc or therapist uses what they learn from it to help you. This doesn't mean that you're being manipulated, deliberately, but it's said that until transference occurs, therapy hasn't really gotten into gear yet.

Of course there are many who deny that they have any transference toward their T at all - and I'm not challenging that, there is no need to since you say that you experience it, that's the point here. If you quit because of it, going to another T will not solve anything.

Now having said all THAT, I will add that it stinks on ICE, i hate it, your feelings about it are entirely understandable, and yet as lousy as it is, it isn't exactly real, and it will subside in time. In the meantime, unfortunately you need to suffer through it and let yr T use it as one "tool" among many. BTW when I say a tool - remember that yr T has no malice toward you.

here I know you need this

[sugahorse1]

SAWE-those hugs were exactly what were called for-thanks!

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

I think I can understand how you are feeling. It was a big move and you did it! That's a good thing. Now you have only a little more of the hard part to get through--waiting until your appt. (when is it?) and the anxiety of how she is going to react.

I think you can assume things will work out just fine. You have had a 10 year relationship that shows that. But I get that it is so tough to put yourself out there in a really vulnerable way. What better place and what better person than in therapy with your T

It's tomorrow night. I have never been this vulnerable with anyone before. Thanks for your kind words.

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

i'm sorry to hear the amount of frustration, pain and hurt you are going through.
We (my T and I) really feel I suffer from BPD, so I know all about being 'clingy'. It took me 6 months of therapy to be able to write my T an email to tell her how much she aand our therapy meant to me. It's not love-it's just that feeling of being cared for.
I believe transference is a very real part of T-it allows you to show some weaknesses and vulnerability. It gives you something to work on with your T. It's a painful process, but really worth it, and you will grow immensely.
If you read my few posts, you'll see how I also wanted to throw the towel in. Please don't-when therapy gets painful, it's usually because you're on the brink of a break-through. Please carry on-we're here to support you between sessions. It's so important to keep at it now-you've come so far
Hugs xx

No, I will not quit. I moved away in '07 and quit for 3 months even though she left an open offer of phone appointments and visits when I am back home in the area. I have already had two breakthroughs in the past few months dealing with other things, so I know I can do this, I'm just in a dark place right now. Thanks.

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

dear WOWYou,

something you have to realize about transference. It is a normal human reaction. Everyone - Ts, people in AND out of therapy, everyone - experiences it all the time. Your brain is structured to compare and contrast, and try out connecting dots it sees, for reasons of safety, efficiency, etc, etc, and transference just IS.
It's why, when you meet certain people, you feel as if you've already known them for years.
It's the reason someone can bug the cr*p out of you but hasn't done anything to you really.
It's why, when certain things happen, you get all bent out of shape, way out of proportion to what actually happened.
It just is.

Having said iall that, you need to know that the therapeutic relationship is designed to invoke it in you - some psychotherapy "orientations", and psychiatry also, focus significantly, largely, or very largely on the transference and the psydoc or therapist uses what they learn from it to help you. This doesn't mean that you're being manipulated, deliberately, but it's said that until transference occurs, therapy hasn't really gotten into gear yet.

Of course there are many who deny that they have any transference toward their T at all - and I'm not challenging that, there is no need to since you say that you experience it, that's the point here. If you quit because of it, going to another T will not solve anything.

Now having said all THAT, I will add that it stinks on ICE, i hate it, your feelings about it are entirely understandable, and yet as lousy as it is, it isn't exactly real, and it will subside in time. In the meantime, unfortunately you need to suffer through it and let yr T use it as one "tool" among many. BTW when I say a tool - remember that yr T has no malice toward you.

here I know you need this

Thank you. I know she has no malice towards me, I've known her for so long. I think the thing I worry the most out of everything is that she's going to feel like I've put more "pressure" on her...for instance, if she doesn't call back right away or goes on vacay, I don't want her to think I'm unstable or something.

[sittingatwatersedge]

maybe she's been waiting for years for you to have this self realization, or come to this point of trust, or whatever. I think you are making good progress, she's going to be FINE with it.

[with or without you]

the final countdown is on.....................................................lol

[jexa]

Originally Posted by with or without you

the final countdown is on.....................................................lol

Haha now I have that song stuck in my head.. "the final countdown!"

Good luck!!!

[with or without you]

Ground control to Major Tom.......

[geez]

7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2

(((((WOWOY))))) many hugs. I'm sorry I can't say much right now but I felt what your wrote and my T is taking up too much space in my head as well Thank you so much for sharing and I wish you comfort.

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by geez

7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2

(((((WOWOY))))) many hugs. I'm sorry I can't say much right now but I felt what your wrote and my T is taking up too much space in my head as well Thank you so much for sharing and I wish you comfort.

thanks, I really appreciate that

[seventyeight]

hi withorwithoutyou,

i just read everything you wrote, and i'm impressed! i can't believe you have the courge to be so open and honest (and thorough!) with your therapist. that is really great.

the only thing i wanted to add to what's already been said, is that maybe since you're nearing the 10-year mark, this is a time for re-evaluating your relationship with her. maybe you're wanting to assess the status of everything, and to get some real honest feedback from her as to where she stands. you seem clear in what you want/need and where you're coming from, but perhaps it's now time for you know the same from her. also, i'm not sure when you started therapy (like, which month), but sometimes when you pass the date of an event like that, it can be triggering in a way. that could also be what's going on - assuming you started in december, that is!

anyway, best of luck tonight, and keep us posted!!

[with or without you]

It was August. thanks for your kind words, 78

[with or without you]

We talked for an hour and a half (her lead, not mine). She is usually pretty on-time with the "well we need to stop for today" around 45 minutes or so....but not tonight. I thanked her at the end for her generosity.

She always calls me when we do a phone session. I did not say hello when I picked up. I answered with, "Heh, half of me doesn't want to do this at all." She quietly laughed, and said, "I know.......I know." I joked, "you're probably thinking, thank God that girl lives 400 miles away!" I told her pretty much everything I posted here. She said, "I think a lot of your emotional attachment—your 'obsessions' as you call it—towards me come from the fact that we've just worked together for such a long time, it's natural. You know, I firmly believe that therapy is a long, long process. I don't believe these things can be resolved in one or two years." I then told her how she's the only one who's ever been able to really "reach" me and make me feel comfortable in talking about really serious stuff concerning myself. and I thanked her for sticking with me for so long and continuing to see me after I left the area. She said, "I appreciate that, you're welcome."

I told her my main concern with revealing all of this to her: now that she knows how much I "lionize" her, I don't want her to think I'm unstable or will feel crushed if she can't see me or talk to me when I need her. She said she didn't feel any less (or more, for that matter) invested in my care after reading my letter. It's always been the same since day one. She said that none of my questions nor anything else I said made her feel uncomfortable or think that I was "a freak" (my words). I told her I meant every single word I said.

She told me I was brave, courageous, and was really "digging deep here." She did not answer any of my curiosities about her, nor did I expect her to, because this is really all about *me*. For instance, one of the things in my list of "curiosities about her" was that she's Italian and she reminds me of the many Italians in my life. I went on to explain in the letter that I believe I noticed this because I'm adopted and people's ethnicity/genealogy interest me a lot, because I didn't know who I was for the longest time and all my Italian friends really had a sense of identity to me, their families were really tight, like they were a tribe or something. She said, "That's exactly right, I think you're bang-on." In her opinion, she thinks there are two things about me that contribute to the way I am, and maybe I haven't really explored them in enough detail because I like to focus on the positive things that came out of them: 1) being adopted and 2) my mother's alcoholism. Yes, my mom's been sober for 18 years, but she had to go away to treatment three different times and then to a halfway house. This happened over the course of 18 months until she stopped relapsing. T says even though Mom did what she had to do, and although my dad did a great job holding down the fort, it still felt like an abandonment to me and at a crucial age (age 11). Perhaps my whole "obsession" with keeping things secret about myself and not wanting to get close to people in the past has to do with covering up this kind of shameful thing that happened with my mother...we always had to lie about where she really was, etc. Also, I told her that I have never told one friend of mine that my mom's a recovering alcoholic because it's a "sacred trust" between me and my sister + Mom, and I never will, because I keep my promises.

Anyway, she just thinks that what I've offered here is extremely significant, and I have a right to feel irritable and not able to sleep. It will eventually pass. She said that when you dig as deep as I have, it's very rattling to anyone. I told her, "don't take this the wrong way, but you are indirectly ruining my life right now!" and she laughed and said she understood. She thinks now that I have acknowledged my deep vulnerabilities and attachment to her, we can start to figure out why I feel this way, and how to eventually reach out more and more to friendships. We are really trying to figure out why I don't want to be more open with people, because she doesn't think a single one of my curiosities about her is strange. She is going to see me in her office next week when I go home for Christmas. She seemed concerned for me "dreading going home", because I said at some point in the letter that I have not been getting along with my sister at all for the past 4 months (we are not speaking) and my mom is bothering me too because she's anxious and overprotective, makes me feel like a kid and sometimes it really gets to me. She told me if I needed to get away, to just do it...I have to do what I have to do. I told her I didn't think there would be any murders in the house, LOL..."well that's reassuring!"

Anyway, this whole talk calmed me down a little....still not all the way there yet, though. She is just simply amazing. Even though I know I won't be in therapy forever, I will never, ever forget her and her influence on my life. Of course, if I told her that, she would just turn it right around back at me and say "you did it, not me."

Thank you all for your concern!

PS. she told me she was glad I was researching so much about psychology and how other people deal with therapy

[sittingatwatersedge]

This is incredible stuff and it's all good. one of the best things I have heard today. you made me smile

[rainbow8]

Your T sounds wonderful, and your phone session too! I am so happy for you, with or without you! I can see why you want to stick with your T even though she's far away.

I'm glad you could be so honest with her about your attachment to her. I've found that telling my T how I feel about her makes me feel better, that it's not a "secret obsession" any more.

[with or without you]

thank you, you guys. I really appreciate it.

[BlackCanary]

So wonderful, such a caring T!
Best wishes for getting through the holiday season with family