[ECHOES]

I feel like I'm getting nothing out of therapy lately. It feels good to be there, at least when I arrive. But outside of there I am the same falling apart, terribly anxious person. I am sick of talking about work, sick of trying to keep up, to get what she says. What I seem to be doing is hiding everything to make everyone else feel better, and I though that therapy was the way through.

I asked again tonight why we don't get to anything deep. I don't think "deep" is the push/pull of every topic, which is mostly work or the desire to find a different job. I go home and fall apart (if I make it that far before falling apart) just like I used to. I feel no connection anymore. I think it was all in my head.

What is "deep" in therapy, to you?

[BlessedRhiannon]

What is "deep" in therapy, to you?

For me - "deep" is the why behind the behavior. Why am I anxious, why am I dissatisfied with my job, why do I struggle with SI and ED, why, why, why.

My T can teach me all the coping skills in the world, but for me, if I don't understand why I do or think something, then I don't feel like I have enough control over it to change the behavior or thought process. It's different for everyone, I guess. Some people don't feel the need to understand why and just want to change. I need to have that deeper understanding, though.

It's taken me almost 2 years with this T to get to some of the whys, and it took a lot of trust on my part and a lot of self-exploration. Often, I don't get to the why in session...I think about it later and discover it on the drive home or while journaling...then, I email my T with my realization and ask if we can explore it further in the next session.

[Suratji]

For me, 'deep', means more than discussing my actions or my thoughts. Deep is diving into feelings that I may not have even known existed. I agree with BlessedRhiannon that understanding is the deeper part; not just learning how to change responses.

Understanding ourselves is tough. I'm going through the same stuff as I'm sure is everyone. I believe that continuing to talk and explore is the way to find that deep part. It takes time - lots of time because some stuff is stuck very deep in our unconscious. We need patience.

[lastyearisblank]

For me deep is being surprised! It is like rush at the end of a great novel when all the plot points come together.

After struggling with a behavior, or a thought for months, all of a sudden something clicks and I just know what to do.

Sometimes when you look back the clues were there all along. It feels so great

For me, shallow is being stuck. Unhappiness and not knowing why. I really feel like in nature pain is supposed to be a signal for change. Shallow therapy feels like taking an aspirin when you need surgery.

Sorry that you are stuck ECHOES! Thinking of you and hope it's better soon!

[missbelle]

I guess what you are going through is similar to a plateau when you diet.. Eventually you begin again...!

[mixedup_emotions]

Hmm. Good question. What's "deep" to me is finding the connection between certain behaviors and the underlying cause....having that "a-ha" moment where things start to make sense....

I sent my T an email the other night - basically sharing what I shared here when I was having my meltdown about my feelings about my ex, my neighbor, etc....and my T responded saying that perhaps we should work on exploring the deep seated guilt that I feel that seems to penetrate every area of my life. That was like - wow - so right on. And I don't know where it stems from....and I hope that once I learn it, things will make sense, and I can work towards undoing and relearning....so that I can move forward without this intense heavy weight of guilt on my shoulders. That's deep to me.

[SpiritRunner]

For me, deep has to do with uncovering more of the what and the why behind a behavior or a thought pattern, getting at the root of it. It's untangling my tangled up emotional reasoning and knowing more of what happened to tangle it up, but more than that, it's going deep into feelings where I haven't gone before.....I haven't gone near deep enough to the point where I can cease to intellectualize my feelings, and just feel them. There are many feelings I need to go deeper into. And it's also about not only gaining the insight into something I have done and why I've done it, but actually understanding how to use the insight to change, not just on the surface, but way deep ...... and deep change takes lots of time.
I'm sorry you feel like you're in sort of a static place right now, echoes. But maybe it's temporary....and there's some deeper work ahead.

[learning1]

thanks for posting about this Echoes. I just made a post about my t session not being very deep (just chatty) and this is making me think more about what I mean by deep. For me, it can be when I identify a feeling I have now with a feeling I've had in the past and make the connection about how the feeling in the past led to my reactions and feelings now. This happened, or was inspired by therapy when the therapist elicited emotions during therapy and then very briefly helped me understand/label the emotion.

I agree that "deep" is that moment when things click...when the reasons behind thoughts/behaviors become more clear, and there is this forward movement that I can FEEL.

But for me, more than that, "deep" is the connection I feel with T. I have never allowed myself to connect with anyone in that way, and it's so healing and profound. I remember when I first felt it, I told him "I feel like there is a rope connecting my heart to yours"...because I DID. I could almost see it stretching across the room. I used to sit as far away from him as I could, and even from that distance, I could feel that deep, deep connection. "Deep" is allowing myself to be SEEN, and loved, and accepted how I am. It's the knowledge that someday T's love might spill over and I might start to love myself.

Some sessions are chit-chatty. And there are these long periods of time when I'm not sure that ANYTHING is happening in therapy, but I think on some level, just showing up and allowing myself to be seen is rewiring something in me.

Echoes, why do you fall apart when you get home? Is there something that you need from T that you're not allowing yourself to have?

[Melbadaze]

I think deep is when you feel your no longer in your comfort zone emotionally. - seldom mention work now, its more about my fears around getting close and letting T get closer to me.

[sunrise]

Deep feels "core" to me, like I am going to the core of my being. I like how T wants to go there with me. A deep topic we have been dealing with recently is death. I have always had a fear of death and just don't handle it well. But now I am facing it with my parents near their end of life and in my work at the hospital, where I care for dying people. So T and I are talking about work lately, but it is deep stuff. T sometimes has a way of deflecting topics he doesn't consider important, or perhaps deep, or worthy of us spending a lot of time on. We will talk about it for a few minutes, and then he will ask, "what else?" It can be a little offputting at times (hey, I wanted to talk about that!), but on the other hand, I am paying him to go places with me that I can't go with an acquaintance or co-worker or casual friend, so maybe he's doing me a favor by moving us to deeper topics.

He often will encourage me to just sit still and see what comes up. That is when the deep stuff comes. The feelings come.

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I asked again tonight why we don't get to anything deep.

I think this is an interesting question. Do you think that your T doesn't want to go deep and so veers away if the conversation starts to go there? Or do you think you are not taking the two of you in a deep direction? If not, why is that, when that is what you want to do? Fear? Pain? Shame? Exhaustion? What is at the core of your anxiety?

If work is not a deep topic for you, could you declare a moratorium on discussing work in your sessions? Give it a rest for a few months? Maybe with that topic off the table, there will be space for deeper topics to come?

Originally Posted by ECHOES

What I seem to be doing is hiding everything to make everyone else feel better, and I though that therapy was the way through.

By everyone, do you mean your T? You are hiding things from her?

Interesting post, ECHOES, maybe a deep post!

(BTW, ECHOES, at one point I did need to talk career stuff with someone--I was trying to leave my job too, but didn't know what I wanted to do next. I saw a career counselor for a few sessions, and she was really helpful.)

[PTSDlovemycats]

i have been thinking about this now for probably an hour noe but I can't seem to come up with my own definition of deep yet.. I wil keep trying though...

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I feel like I'm getting nothing out of therapy lately. It feels good to be there, at least when I arrive. But outside of there I am the same falling apart, terribly anxious person. I am sick of talking about work, sick of trying to keep up, to get what she says. What I seem to be doing is hiding everything to make everyone else feel better, and I though that therapy was the way through.

I asked again tonight why we don't get to anything deep. I don't think "deep" is the push/pull of every topic, which is mostly work or the desire to find a different job. I go home and fall apart (if I make it that far before falling apart) just like I used to. I feel no connection anymore. I think it was all in my head.

What is "deep" in therapy, to you?

what if one day you decided that just for that day, just for that hour (50 minutes?) you didnt give a rat's patoot about how other people feel...including your therapist? just express whatever its in you to express, without regard for her reactions or responses....

what would that be like?

[darkrunner]

Echoes,

It sounds like you're in kind of a therapy rut.

I wonder if there is anything you can do to shake things up?
You said:

I am sick of talking about work, sick of trying to keep up, to get what she says. What I seem to be doing is hiding everything to make everyone else feel better, and I though that therapy was the way through.

Have you told your T that you have to try to keep up and get what she says? Is there a different approach she could take that would be more helpful?

Why are you hiding everything to make everyone else feel better?
You're feelings are important and valid, too. I wonder if that is holding you back in your therapy?

Sorry for the questions and especially if they are way off-base.....they were just some thoughts I had and maybe something to think about.

I hope things start feeling better soon.

[Sannah]

Any forward movement on this Echoes?

[ECHOES]

Judging by some responses, we were 'deeply' exploring my inability to put together a resume and thinking I have anything to offer another employer.

But what I heard was that 'it isn't hard, here I can do it, I can find the words for it'.
And that's because she pounced (once again) on one of the very first things that came out of my mouth when I said something about feeling like I've just been 'winging it' on the job I have, a supervisory job that was offered abruptly and came with no training. 'Winging it'---I see that as blah blah blah blah.

I really feel like a therapy failure, that I cannot look inside and all I do is project, project, project. My question to her (a sissy accusation really) about when would we ever get to anything deep, I think probably was my own strong dissatisfaction with myself. With my inability to explore the things that get brought up in therapy.

But I am also resentful of how animated she gets when therapy seems to go 'her way', although - God forbid - she 'does not lead or direct'.
And as long as I'm letting my crankiness out, I am tired of looking at her family photos on her desk, seeing her new slim figure, and about any other diversion I can possibly hide behind I suppose.

[Melbadaze]

Echoes I doubt your the failure.

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I really feel like a therapy failure, that I cannot look inside and all I do is project, project, project. My question to her (a sissy accusation really) about when would we ever get to anything deep, I think probably was my own strong dissatisfaction with myself. With my inability to explore the things that get brought up in therapy.

But I am also resentful of how animated she gets when therapy seems to go 'her way', although - God forbid - she 'does not lead or direct'.
And as long as I'm letting my crankiness out, I am tired of looking at her family photos on her desk, seeing her new slim figure, and about any other diversion I can possibly hide behind I suppose.

Right there ^ you have deep. Can you express this somehow...writing, emailing, drawing?

[bounceback]

For me "deep" is a process. It took me years to go deep with T. I had to learn how to trust the therapist and trust the process enough. Once I could do that, it was just a willingness to be honest and say what is going on for me whether I was uncomfortable doing so or not. It was also a willingness to take risks. I really believe in honesty in therapy and that pretty much everything is opened to be talked about. My therapist I had before was really thorough and she helped me realize this. The feelings are usually more intense. The subjects are more painful. Like I couldn't cry in therapy for years. I used to think there was something wrong with me because I couldn't. After all these years I have gotten to the point where I can do that. Like someone said therapy is like peeling an onion. It takes awhile to get to the core.

[Sannah]

You are angry Echoes?

[Sweetlove]

For me, "deep" is a place I've never gone before, either because I didn't want to or because I didn't know it was there. Deep is the unknown or the unconcious. It is the opposite of skimming the surface, which is what I've always done, then stopped as soon as things "go deep". Just my expirience though.

[Fuzzybear]