[ECHOES]

Sorry, but this is a vent.
I wish I had the guts to quit therapy.

I am the square peg and therapy is the round hole.
I don't fit.
She doesn't fit me.

What is the point? I could talk to the cat and let him be the witness to my story and struggles and it would do me as much good. I'll never be able to be myself with her and I can't stand that therapy feels so social, or that her responses seem so insincere. Is she attempting to be something she thinks I want and I need to tell her to get real? Is she treating me as fragile because of the way I am; and if so, is that what I need? Just because I'm overly sensitive, does that mean she should treat me as fragile? Or is she attempting some kind of nurturing that isn't feeling like nurturing and possibly reinforces my infantile desire for nurturing, and she ought to be helping me find that in more mature ways?

I have said to her many times that "It's too late" meaning that most of my life is over. She just replies with her "Mmm. Yeah, that's hard." Sometimes she varies it with "Mmm. Yeah, that's so hard." Would it have killed her to offer some encouragement in these 4 years.

I like to analyze but I am weary of it. Weary of every thought, perception, and plan of action being something to explore, because it makes it seem as if every thought, perception, and decision is faulty and pathological.

I'm tired of feeling like I'm in the dark, or going in circles. Or going in circles in the dark. Between sessions at times like this, I feel like I could just not go back and nothing would be any different.

I am considering following someone's line of thought here (Kacey?) and go in and re-interveiw her, ask her how she can help me, why I should choose to work with her, what she offers to someone diagnosed as BPD as far as expectations of improvement/prognosis.

I think maybe I'm working up some courage to be confrontational, or direct because confrontational doesn't sound so good. That I am tired of me, who has these thoughts between sessions sometimes, but almost always returns and sits and smiles and gets sucked back in. Is this normal? Is this part of the process? I have idealized her and therapy - do I also idealize the therapy patient and I need to work through that yet?

If you read this far, , thanks and I appreciate any and all thoughts.
I am not fragile, I can take it

[granite1]

t think reinterviewing is a great idea. maybe even looking up some other t and see what they have to offer.after contacting another t really helped me feel not so trapped with this t.i know if things dont work out i have options.this gives me a little strenth to trust a bit more go out on the limb

[SpiritRunner]

I think the re-interview or something to shake it up is a good idea....if it feels stalled or in a rut, you don't have to just stick it out like that!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Sorry, but this is a vent.
I wish I had the guts to quit therapy.

I am the square peg and therapy is the round hole.
I don't fit.
She doesn't fit me.

What is the point? I could talk to the cat and let him be the witness to my story and struggles and it would do me as much good. I'll never be able to be myself with her and I can't stand that therapy feels so social, or that her responses seem so insincere. Is she attempting to be something she thinks I want and I need to tell her to get real? Is she treating me as fragile because of the way I am; and if so, is that what I need? Just because I'm overly sensitive, does that mean she should treat me as fragile? Or is she attempting some kind of nurturing that isn't feeling like nurturing and possibly reinforces my infantile desire for nurturing, and she ought to be helping me find that in more mature ways?

I have said to her many times that "It's too late" meaning that most of my life is over. She just replies with her "Mmm. Yeah, that's hard." Sometimes she varies it with "Mmm. Yeah, that's so hard." Would it have killed her to offer some encouragement in these 4 years.

I like to analyze but I am weary of it. Weary of every thought, perception, and plan of action being something to explore, because it makes it seem as if every thought, perception, and decision is faulty and pathological.

I'm tired of feeling like I'm in the dark, or going in circles. Or going in circles in the dark. Between sessions at times like this, I feel like I could just not go back and nothing would be any different.

I am considering following someone's line of thought here (Kacey?) and go in and re-interveiw her, ask her how she can help me, why I should choose to work with her, what she offers to someone diagnosed as BPD as far as expectations of improvement/prognosis.

I think maybe I'm working up some courage to be confrontational, or direct because confrontational doesn't sound so good. That I am tired of me, who has these thoughts between sessions sometimes, but almost always returns and sits and smiles and gets sucked back in. Is this normal? Is this part of the process? I have idealized her and therapy - do I also idealize the therapy patient and I need to work through that yet?

If you read this far, , thanks and I appreciate any and all thoughts.
I am not fragile, I can take it

I agree about re-interviewing her, and I like the word re-interviewing for it.

I think her response to you saying it's too late seems pretty shallow.

I haven't known your history with your t enough to feel like I know what to suggest. But I identify with the going around in circles analyzing everything and not being sure if it's me or the t. Sometimes it seems like there's no answer to that question. Being more direct about the needs I felt like it made a difference and was probably a good thing to do overall, even though I'm going back and questioning some of the things I was direct about now.

[WePow]

If you have been with T this long and it does not feel healing, it may be time to just start glancing over at other Ts. My T went through many different Ts before he found the one that really was able to give him what he needed. The bottom line is - therapy time is your time to heal. If you are not being healed, it isn't a good match.

[Oceanwave]

I agree. If you feel taken for granted perhaps it is time to move on. Do you know what you would need from a T; what would help?

[Can't Stop Crying]

That's a tough decision...I agree - re-interview her and if you have different expectations it might be time to look for a new T...I do understand how hard that process is though

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I like to analyze but I am weary of it. Weary of every thought, perception, and plan of action being something to explore, because it makes it seem as if every thought, perception, and decision is faulty and pathological.

This is interesting. I look at things to work on as yet another way to improve my life. Maybe this viewpoint that who you are is pathological is causing problems? This is a weary place to be.

I'm also wondering how much you are influencing your therapy experience?

If you did a pros and cons list with this therapist, which side would win?

[ECHOES]

Thank you all for your replies.

I'm not going to re-interview her.
That is part of the problem - I keep trying to make therapy about her.
I want, but deny wanting, direction and rescue, and when I grope around for it and come up empty, I blame her. This is the manipulating part of me, groping around for it instead of admiting it and talking about it; if I flail around, then maybe she will jump in and rescue me, direct me. We have talked a bit about this, about how I bring this out in her, make her want to respond to me in that way, guessing what I want and putting an array of ideas out there to choose from when I am wordless.
I admittedly want a nurturing presence, but then I call it insincere and I resent it and what her to 'get real'.

I have been with other therapists, in CBT and once briefly REBT, and it felt unhelpful and shallow. I thought this would feel different. Maybe I am just shallow and that's where the idea of shallow is coming from. Maybe the manipulating is shallow, feels shallow, rather than the thrill of the risk of 'getting real' myself.
I believe we even talked about this, or about emptiness, in the last session or the one before, about how this comes from so long ago, perhaps it's pre-verbal and that's why it feels empty: there is not much else happening but real and immediate needs at that stage.

I really like my T very much. I also really want what I want. I don't know.. I think I need to think more about where I am, about all this.

[embracinglife]

Yes, give it some time, I'm sure you can figure out what will be best for yourself.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Thank you all for your replies.

I'm not going to re-interview her.
That is part of the problem - I keep trying to make therapy about her.
I want, but deny wanting, direction and rescue, and when I grope around for it and come up empty, I blame her. This is the manipulating part of me, groping around for it instead of admiting it and talking about it; if I flail around, then maybe she will jump in and rescue me, direct me. We have talked a bit about this, about how I bring this out in her, make her want to respond to me in that way, guessing what I want and putting an array of ideas out there to choose from when I am wordless.
I admittedly want a nurturing presence, but then I call it insincere and I resent it and what her to 'get real'.

I have been with other therapists, in CBT and once briefly REBT, and it felt unhelpful and shallow. I thought this would feel different. Maybe I am just shallow and that's where the idea of shallow is coming from. Maybe the manipulating is shallow, feels shallow, rather than the thrill of the risk of 'getting real' myself.
I believe we even talked about this, or about emptiness, in the last session or the one before, about how this comes from so long ago, perhaps it's pre-verbal and that's why it feels empty: there is not much else happening but real and immediate needs at that stage.

I really like my T very much. I also really want what I want. I don't know.. I think I need to think more about where I am, about all this.

Wow, therapy can be so confusing and so easy to interpret anything in multiple, opposing ways. Sounds like you're working hard to figure it out, and not afraid to question yourself. Good luck with it and hope you'll keep letting us know how it's going.

[pachyderm]

That's one advantage about being T-less: you can work on yourself, without always being involved in thinking about someone else, what they think of things, how they will react -- how you can get approval from them (which you never can get).

[Perna]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I think maybe I'm working up some courage to be confrontational, or direct because confrontational doesn't sound so good. That I am tired of me, who has these thoughts between sessions sometimes, but almost always returns and sits and smiles and gets sucked back in. Is this normal? Is this part of the process?

It's your therapy, not hers. You are the director, actor, stage manager, etc. Hmm, it's hard!

I still remember the two hour session where we got to the end and I said, "I feel like we haven't been talking about what we should have been" and she got her thoughtful look and after maybe 10 seconds said, "I think you're right" and that was it, end of session! I suddenly completely understood that I was the driver and it was "all" up to me; the other person was along for the ride and a little insight based on her education, training, and experience.

So, next session when you get direct remember you are not pushing the other person to do/be a certain way or say certain sorts of things one way or another but to get yourself to be honest with who you are and what you want for your life. Only you can figure that out; your therapist doesn't have or isn't a crystal ball! If you say your life is over, how can she change what you feel is true about you and your life? Only you can do that.

Remember, you can think/believe negative things or positive things; the things and circumstances themselves don't care either way? So, why not think positive things? The future is not set in stone; I'm 60 and figure I have at least 20 years of life left, what am I going to do with that time? Why focus on my aches and pains and being overweight and having no friends and my DH is going to die before me and then I'll be alone, etc.? Why not, instead, figure out what my DH and I would like now and work on that?

[Perna]

Ah, yes, the rescue fantasy. It is hard to learn that we don't really need rescuing, we're pretty darn capable ourselves. Work on becoming better friends with yourself; find the self that can put her arm around the one needing rescuing and tell her to "Come along, I'll help."

((((((((((((ECHOES))))))))))))))

It's so hard to "see" our therapy when we're so close to it.

It sounds like you are working things out in your mind though, and coming closer to figuring out how you feel.

Be gentle with you. Can you accept where you're at and who you are? Not necessarily as in "this is how it's always been, this is how it always will be", but "this is how it is right now". Until I let myself be okay with where I am right now, no matter how unsavory that place is, it's impossible to move forward, because I'm too busy fighting with myself and telling myself how terrible I am.

You deserve love and gentleness.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

That's one advantage about being T-less: you can work on yourself, without always being involved in thinking about someone else, what they think of things, how they will react -- how you can get approval from them (which you never can get).

unless of course one falls into blindness and self deception, letting oneself off the hook easily, self justification, going around in circles, or just generally giving up.
I have no one in particular in mind, I just know what would happen if I decided to work on myself. I had 56 yr of that before I started therapy, and got no-damn-where in all that time.

[rainbow8]

ECHOES, I identify when you wrote that you want to make therapy about her, your T. That's my pattern for years with my Ts. It's so hard to get that idea out of my head because the connection seems so good, often TOO good, and that IS about her. I can read or talk about transference until I'm blue in the face, but it's still a real person sitting with me in my session. We're not robots. It's not about her, but about us. We are communicating; I'm not talking to the wall. That's the tough part. Therapy is not a lab science; we're human, and humans have feelings especially when you talk to them week after week in an intimate setting. Sigh...I'll never figure it out. I don't think most people who have never been in therapy have had a relationship like we have with our Ts. Or this could be my own issue speaking? Sorry if this is off topic; I got carried away with the unfairness of it all!

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

That's one advantage about being T-less: you can work on yourself, without always being involved in thinking about someone else, what they think of things, how they will react -- how you can get approval from them (which you never can get).

T-less doesn't put me where I need to be. I can't work on myself in hiding.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((((((((( Echoes ))))))))))))))

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I want, but deny wanting, direction and rescue,

and when I grope around for it and come up empty, I blame her.

This is the manipulating part of me,

groping around for it instead of admiting it and talking about it;

if I flail around, then maybe she will jump in and rescue me, direct me.

how I bring this out in her, make her want to respond to me in that way, guessing what I want and putting an array of ideas out there to choose from when I am wordless.

I admittedly want a nurturing presence, but then I call it insincere and I resent it and what her to 'get real'.

I have been with other therapists, in CBT and once briefly REBT, and it felt unhelpful and shallow.

Maybe the manipulating is shallow, feels shallow, rather than the thrill of the risk of 'getting real' myself.

Are you afraid of a real relationship with her?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

T-less doesn't put me where I need to be. I can't work on myself in hiding.

If you are hiding from yourself, no.

[lastyearisblank]

How old is she ECHOES? I think it would take an exceptional type of person to do marriage therapy without experience being married, or give parenting advice without having kids. It may be that she does not have the insights that you need because she just has never been there! ("It's hard..." is so ambiguous!")

I think this is part of the work though; figuring out what you want... it's not a square peg/round whole thing at all!

[ECHOES]

@ Sannah, Yes I am.

lastyearisblank, she is 69 and has been married for a long time.

I am still mourning the fantasy, I think. Ranting that she is not that. And fear about what she is, even though I have seen the real her/us and it's been okay.

I forget if I mentioned it but we talked about a shift that happened a few months ago, and it was good to talk about, hard to talk about, and I think her even mentioning it and her mentioning being on the edge of a cliff (that I see it that way) is what is going on. It feels dangerous, and also that there is no turning back. I have been able to be very much in the present lately which is a good thing, but then I've lost my escape and I'm looking for another...

[Sannah]

Maybe work on a closer relationship with her?

[ECHOES]

Yes, but... what does that even mean..?