The "real" relationship with T

Some people say the real relationship is simply that T is your T and you are her or his client. But that has different meaning for each of us. It's not a reciprocal relationship (not in the usual sense, anyway) but it IS a relationship.

I am afraid to ask my T what it means that she welcomes the emails, occasional forwards, and photos I send her. I send her emails that have scenic photos, something I know she'll enjoy. She thanks me for these! She says she enjoys seeing the family photos I send also. I have only sent emails like those about 5 or 6 times in 1 1/2 years, only when it's something special I want to share with her.

Is that part of my therapy or does that make it a "real relationship"? I don't know. I need to ask her if she will still welcome my emails, forwards, photos when I'm not her client anymore. Is she genuinely enjoying them or is it only for the purpose of therapy?

I don't know if it's harmful or not to have that aspect of a "real relationship" with my T. Boundaries are different for every T. Mine is casual about the interactions I'm talking about.

What about liking me? She has told me many times that she likes me very much. She also says she learns things from me too. So therapy is not totally a one-way street. I want to have a middle ground, not to obsess about my T, not to make her my friend, but to have it be "real". That seems to be what she is doing. But WHY is she letting that happen? She's said that we need to have a strong relationship to do the hard work of therapy. Does that include my knowing that I can send her an email I find aesthetic?

I know I always start threads about the same topics, but it bothers me. What IS the real relationship with our Ts? Is it an individual decision based on the personality and orientation of our T? I would guess so. Putting aside the transference feelings and my wanting more from my T than she can give me, there still is something real in our relationship. What is real in your relationship with your T? Or am in denial again, which I'm willing to admit is possible.

It's interesting, rainbow...

I'm new to this therapy thing so I don't really have any answers. I guess my 'relationship' with my T is in it's early stages (a few months now) - and I'm not really even sure about the boundaries yet either, I just try not to push what I imagine they are!

I know that the only relationship I have with T will be T/client - she's a professional. There's quite an age gap between us, and she's not very local to me, so we would never have met under any other circumstance, would never naturally have become friends or had a conversation... So, I guess I feel it's a privilege to be able to be in her company, to be able to learn from her, for her to pay such attention to me and advise me - and I pay for that privilege, lol... I really do like her as a person, though, and of course I hope that she likes me, too.

I don't suppose any of us would want to think we're 'just a client', a number, a means for our T to pay the bills... at the end of the day, we're all people.

I understand what you mean, Rainbow. A relationship with a T is a fuzzy, odd, somewhere in the middle of everything type thing. My relationship with my T is very close, very intimate, I tell her things that I would NEVER tell anyone else. She is almost like a friend/mom/big sister/teacher....yet not QUITE any of those things. My T is like yours and I find it strange when she says that she loves getting my emails, she loves looking at pictures--sometimes she will grab my iPhone and say "I want to see all your pictures!!!" and I'm like, "WHY!?!" But she seems to mean it. Its weird.

It IS a real relationship. It is. Its a T-Client relationship... I dont know, it is what it is, I guess... sort of its own kind of thing.

I think it bothers you because you know you'll never have a relationship with your t outside of therapy.

I think you need to stop looking for things that simply aren't there and just concentrate on you getting better.

I don't view as a real relationship. I think of them as strangers you pay to give weapons to and hope they do not eviscerate you with the tools you have given them. It is safe to say I find the whole thing confusing and I have no idea what they are supposed to be doing, so to think of it as some sort of relationship boggles me. Plus I don't want a relationship with her. I would prefer it if she would tell me the name of some books I could read and do this without her at all.

flooded, that's what it's all about, though. Getting better for ME, is about making peace with not having a relationship with my T in RL. Plus, for ME, sending her emails and photos IS real life. That's a good thing to discuss at my session. As blunt as you are (just like my former T ), it's something I need to directly say to her. So, thanks.

I will never have a relationship with my T outside of therapy. Maybe that's not so bad. I have a closer relationship with her inside of therapy than with most other people outside of therapy, and due to the nature of therapy, that's not going to change. So, instead of getting angry and defensive, I can say, who cares? My relationship IN therapy is good enough. But, there is pain in what you wrote. It still hurts a lot.

jsg: Right, we're all people and it's not black and white. Thanks.

SarahMichelle: I like the way you said it. Therapy is it's "own kind of thing". Thanks!

Yeah I am blunt and I would never deliberately want to upset or hurt you by anything I've written. Just know that

Hey Rainbow...

You know..it's funny..I was just saying to a friend tonight how I was a black and white kind of thinker..yet thinking how many different shades or colours of relationships I think there must be in therapy..as many as in a rainbow!! Maybe it is not "real" or "not real" but just like in any other human interaction...there will be uniqueness that we have to cherish.

I think that those that go into therapy with the idea that it is just a business arrangement and just want to fix one problem will get just what they ask for and little else. Those that are in deep need and don't know what to ask for will get much more guidance. Those that are craving a connection and true honesty and openess will get something else. Add in the variables of how very different we each are and then exponentially multiply that to allow for all the different types of personalities of the therapists and types of therapy...and you just cannot expect to get one of two answers...real or not real.

I also don't think that there are many cold and aloof enough to listen to and interact with someone who is being honest and sharing openly and not begin to form some form of attachment. Indeed, that attachment is part of the therapy and at least in some schools the basis of the therapy and what is actually analyzed both on the part of the client AND on the part of the therapist...

I wouldn't want to go to a therapist that didn't have some vested emotional interest in me nor one that didn't have boundaries to keep me and him both safe. I'm glad he wants to see my emails or know what I'm thinking both because I truly think he cares AND because he needs this information to help me better.. I'm glad he cares enough to call me back or email me occasionally or hover a little when I'm falling down. He says that he will be like the safe parent that allows me to go into the world and safely form other attachments or to explore and to make changes.. I don't want someone that doesn't give a damn about me in that role. Been there before, and it doesn't work and it hurts like hell.

Am I always good at trusting him and allowing him close to me and being a good client...No. But he shares things with me too, and that means he has to trust me too. It IS a relationship-it is two-sided. And it is VERY REAL to me...whatever form it comes in and definitely within the realm of a professional therapeutic relationship. That is what makes it a controlled, safe environment for both of us to be in where we can be open, trusting, caring, and intimate like I know I can be no where else in my life safely.

I can be trusting and free...and it is the professional nature of the relationship that affords me the boundaries within which I can be cherished and grow without pressure... I have no familial obligations, no sexual obligations, no marital obligations, no parental obligations, no pressure to "be" someone that I'm not. I owe him only my honesty, effort, and my fee. I freely give my respect, affection and trust...or at least try my damnedest.

Because he honours these...he is MY T. And that is a very special, and very "real", and cherished relationship to me..
very unique..
just like he and I are.

I hope this helped answer your question...yes..it is real..just unique by nature and controlled to protect the very essence of it..

Therapeutic hugs..lol

Wysteria Blue

Hey Rainbow8,

I think the theraputic relationship is one of the most complicated relationships on the planet. Most relationships where we open ourselves up to someone and trust them with our most personal secrets and information, are 2 way relationships but Theraputic relationships are not - at least not to the same extent. We often feel so close to our therapist because of how they treat us, yet there is so much about them that we do not know, which isn't usually how real life relationships function, most often both people lean on each other and it's an equal type of sharing of experiences.
I think you are right that it is a real relationship, as there are many types of relationships. A 'relationship' is really just a way of saying we have a connection to someone, no matter how limited that is, for example, I could say I have a relationship with a neighbour who I rarely see but the fact is we are related by our location and knowledge of each other.

Because of the intimate nature of Therapy personal and professional lines can sometimes get blurred, which is ok as long as both parties know were to draw the line.

I have no doubt your T very much enjoys your photos that you share with her and that she likes you very much as a person and even though the relationship has limits and cannot function the same way a friendship does, it doesn't mean it's not a real realtionship of importance.

(((((((Rainbow)))))))) there's only one person who can really answer this for you, and even she might find it hard because relationships are constantly changing. But, that's your T. Nobody else can know her mind and determine for her; no matter how many therapy relationships we look at; no matter what our experiences have been; we aren't her ... that's the "real" relationship with T, the one that exists between the two of you, and how it looks will constantly change and evolve ... I hope you can enjoy what the two of you have and talk about this more with her if it's worrying you

This is what we should pay attention to. Rainbow - I think you're comparing your relationship with T to some kind of standard that maybe even you are not aware of.

Let me tell you of an experience of mine. I had a friend who was a T and I was jealous of her clients. She told me that she gave 110% to them. I wanted to receive 110% but it wasn't possible because we were friends and I couldn't get that kind of attention from her. So, it goes both ways - we clients are envious of the friends and the friends are envious of us.

I read a book recently that coached therapists. In it the author was describing a therapist's relationship with their clients and how special it is and how much their lives were touched by them. He said that being in such intimate connection with their clients was extremely moving for them and that they usually don't take home the same kind of listening that they do in session.

So, we do have a real relationship with T. It's very real and it's deep and T's are there to support us and to help us. I think we need to pay attention to what incredible value we own already and maybe consider that any kind of expansion of the relationship could damage it in ways we cannot imagine at the moment.

Are there any boys or men posting on this thread? If not, why not? Seriously. Have there been any boys or men posting on similar threads in the past that you've participated in?

Do you collectively believe that you'll reach an agreement as to the nature of the T-client relationship? Is that the point of the thread? Or does the thread have another point or purpose?

It seems that the nature of your individual T-client relationships really bothers a lot of you. Why? Is it because it's both so personal and at the same time it's a paid relationship? Or is it something else?

Take care!

My T genuinely likes me. However she really doesn't give a s* what goes on for me out side of therapy unless I need help with it... Or it's my cat. We were talking last session and I said something about her "locking her clients in the office when she left for the day" she agreed and seemed almost happy that someone got it. She does not welcome e-mails, phone calls or pictures between sessions she makes it clear that that is HER time. She only comes into the office if there is a client to see or to do paperwork, she only checks messages for emergencies and schedule changes. I am self pay so I know the only time she thinks of me is the 50 minutes I sit in front of her.
Now, for those 50 minutes though I know that to the best of her ability (which is pretty amazing) nothing else exists in her world. She is there 110% to help me with what ever I bring to her that day. If I need help 'coming back' at the end of a session or there is time left but not time enough to open up anything new then maybe we might chat, I might be able to share pictures I have with me. If I try this during the session she is quick to tell me "No, we are here to work. It is not appropriate for you to pay me to sit here and be your friend". She also respects my gratitude and does accept some, limited gifts, occasionally, if brought to her in session.
When I am "finished" working with her there will be almost no contact. I have been told that when we are no longer working together I can schedule an occasional appointment (once a year) to keep her up to date in case I need to return to therapy.

She is, by far, the most cold and distant T I have worked with (and there have been a lot) but somehow she is the warmest, most 'nurturing' and safest too. Yes, sometimes it hurts to think about her boundaries BUT I have SO much respect for her putting it out there and never leaving me to guess. She knows it hurts a lot most of the time when we talk about boundaries... So we always do it in the beginning of the session. She is always blunt, direct and honest. She always asks "how does it feel to hear me say that?" and she DOES genuinely care. She will sit with me with ANY emotion/response/reaction I have (of course I am not the client who brought a gun to session...) and be totally present. She also always reminds me that she is right there with me in that moment.

She has shared bits and pieces of herself, she is not totally sterile but it is always directly related to what I have brought to session that week... or occasionally her cats. When I was in the hospital the first time I called and canceled our session. She wanted to know what happened and got tired of the nurses never letting me talk to her. So she called, used her first name and left her home number. I must say I was VERY confused! And despite the fact that I call her by her first name when it wasn't the office number I could not figure out who I knew with that first name that would call! When I called it and heard her voice my face must have looked pretty scary as 3 other people on the unit and 1 nurse rushed over to make sure I was OK. T knows I still have that number programmed into my phone as a 'security blanket' of sorts and she doesn't mind. And, without her saying anything I am sure I would spontaneously combust or be hit by lightening on a perfectly clear day were I to use it.
She knew I was a hugger so she was the first to initiate a hug at the end of our first session. No matter how good or bad the session goes she always stands up at the end with her arms wide open to take me in... especially if she knows I am miffed with her.

I think there is small print on one of the millions of papers we sign in the beginning stating that it is T's right to be a paradox.

From the few men that post or start these kinds of threads I have observed that they appear to be just as confused as the women - most notably when they are in therapy with a female therapist.

Some men seem to feel as though the therapist "led them on", or committed malpractice is some way. While others are genuinely hurt and bewildered.

From this small sample of men, it's hard to say for sure, but I'm beginning to suspect navigating this relationship is equally as hard for both certain members of both sexes.

I"m guess I see every relationship we have in our lives as a "real" relationship. Why do you call a real relationship something different from some other relationship? Might be something to define for yourself. Every relationship we have in our life has its own purpose and boundaries and duration. My relationship with my family, my husband, my children is a life-long relationship. We live together, eat together, worship together, celebrate together, and mourn together. My relationship with my students is also very "real". We work together, learn together, laugh together, support each other in our learning. My relationship with my T is "real". We talk together, struggle together, share our joys and griefs together, sometimes even cry together.

Each relationship has a different dynamic, and that's as it should be. How could it be any other way?

The danger comes in trying to make one relationship fit into the mold of a different relationship. That's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. So, is that what you are hoping for? Are you wanting your relationship with your T to fit into a role that it isn't meant for?

Try accepting what you have with your T for what it is instead of wishing for it to be something else. Is that what they call radical acceptance (not sure)? Accepting the circumstance for what it is so you can live with it and move forward?

You spend seemingly the majority of your time dwelling on your relationship with your T like you are trying to make it a different kind of relationship that it is really designed for. Maybe you just need to let it be what it is so you can move forward with working on the other relationships in your life. Seems like that would give you some much needed peace.

Rainbow,

you start start a lot of threads on the same topic it seems. I do understand though, the relationship we have with our therapist is crazy-making. It is, without a doubt, the single most confusing one I have ever ever had.

For me the real part of the relationship is the undeniable fact that there are two people in that room. Yes, there are roles assigned to each in order for the therapy to be successful, but you are both real life, living breathing human beings.

If you just shut yourself up with anyone in a room for an hour or so a week, for an extended period of time, you would start to develop feelings for and a relationship with them. It's just human nature.

Now add to that the feelings and emotions that swirl around in therapy plus the fact that money is exchanged and BAM!, instant confusion.

In my experience, the single best thing you could do for yourself to negotiate this whole situation is understand that you are likely never going to understand it. Embrace the crazy and just simply go with it.

I mean what does it really matter when your therapist says she enjoys getting family pictures from you. (It likely simply means that she enjoys it), but why endlessly speculate?

If you love your therapist, just love her. Don't you think that's fine? It's your emotion, you own it, Why constantly try to examine it, project into the future with it, or, even worse, come up with reason why you should deny it.

It is what it is, and that's really all it is.

Good luck to you.

Excellent post, Elle-may

Wow!!! These posts are ALL beautiful and inspirational to me. I'm not sure how to respond to them individually right now so I won't. I have to reread them and think about my situation.

In the majority of cases*, it is a real PROFESSIONAL relationship. T is paid by you; is not your friend, colleague, etc. There will always be a divide.

It is a relationship, but not what you want or dream of or try to make it be. It can't be. Your T is doing a job.

Your T has a real PROFESSIONAL relationship with lots of clients. Each relationship is different, but the reality is that the T is trained to develop relationships that are helpful to the client.

Your T may actually email another client more, for example... because perhaps that client has fearful attachment or trust issues. Perhaps that client could care less if they were abandoned.. so T works harder to connect.

In some ways, I agree with Flooded, because you have family, children, grandchildren and instead of trying to focus on working on those relationships, you are focusing on T and doing everything to get closer to her.

If you were to die next week, think of all the time you could have spent that energy with the people that really love you, instead of a professional.

I understand psychodynamic therapy and IFS and the idea of working through transferance and projection and the past, and the divide of the personality into parts, but how many years are you going to focus on T.... and not using the therapy to improve life outside.

Life is short Rainbow and you have gifts (children, grandchildren) that many people don't. You have people IRL who care about you for REAL because they love you. IMHO, that is more important than getting a professional that you pay to try and fill your void.


Those that love you and that you love should be the focus, because when it is over, those people will be the ones really keeping your memory and remembering Rainbow in their life.
Your T will move on, BUT your children and grandchildren will always remember.


===
* - I put that there because I actually had a relationship with a T that was outside "normal" professional for many reasons...

Oh and the other thing. If you read blogs by therapists, they talk about having to "put it away" and attend to THEIR lives. ... otherwise they could not do their job effectively. They are their to help... and need to keep objective.

It does not mean that they forget their clients or don't occasionally think about them, but it means the job and THEIR lives are separate realities.

Have you ever read a file from your T? That might help you realize that this is a job to them. I was amazed when I saw my first file....

emptyspace: Just one question for you. How do you KNOW I'm not working on my relationships with my family? I AM, and I love them!!! Some happen to live out-of-town but we are close. I baby-sit for the other. No one posts much about their family here. It's not the focus of the forum. Also, I am not PURPOSELY doing what I'm doing. I can't help it!! I love my family and loved having my granddaughter with me for awhile this summer. I'm not going to post about that, am I? My H and I are doing more things together, too. I'm working on it. I can't help the feelings for my T. If I could, I would have stopped after 1 or 2 Ts.

Your post is true, though. It makes me cry because I can't help what I do and you're writing like it's my FAULT. It's my problem, not my fault. Can't you see that? for your posting like you see it. But whom do I believe? There's truth in the other posts too, that the T relationship IS real even if it's professional.

emptyspace: I know it's a job to my T. I asked her last year if I were "only her job" to her? She said "NO". Maybe she goes the extra mile and others don't. It's a second career for her, and part-time. I pay her and she's a professional. Yes, yes, yes. I know the truth. My former T drummed it into me that she only cared about me as a "patient", to use her word. My current T said she likes me and didn't say, "as a client". She said if she didn't like a client she wouldn't say anything to them about liking or not liking them.

Your post is very triggering to me. I have to admit that. I keep starting these threads and then I get hurt. It's my pattern on PC and my T knows that. Only a PART of me is the way you describe me. NOT all of me!! Parts LOVE my family very, very much and you, a stranger, can't know that. But I do spend a great deal of time thinking about my T and our relationship. But so do many others who post here? Why do I get picked on for it and not the others?

What I identify with what Elliemay is saying is that I have learned to take my relationship with my T (and this is my third, so maybe it is easier for me) at face value. What I mean by that is that it is what it is, that he says what he says, that I feel for him what I feel for him, etc. Sometimes he mentions that he thinks about me outside of the hour, and I understand that to be because many of the issues I bring to him are ones that he and/or other people have faced, or continue to face in their daily lives. And sometimes I read about others' relationships with their T's, where there is a more involved relationship than mine with multiple sessions per week, phone calls, texting, emails, more directly loving communication, etc, and I have fleeting moments of insecurity that somehow I must be doing therapy "wrong", that something about my T is wrong, or I'm just not as evolved as others because I don't experience x, y, or z with my T.

This last thing is an example of not taking my relationship with my T at face value. I don't really look at that relationship as compared to anyone else's relationship, or even as compared to a hypothetical ideal. I have just finished reading a book of psychotherapy "tips" written by a legendary T, and I couldn't care less to really analyze whether my T was following what seemed like such good advice. My goal is to have therapy work for me, and while that is evidenced in the closeness and openness of the relationship I have with my T, the real signs of the success of the relationship is how I am progressing in my goals for how I want to live my life. Are the obstacles that have been in my way to living (hello Oprah) my best life being removed? Am I finding more peace and joy in my life?

I'm not telling you not to focus on your relationship with your T, rainbow, but perhaps to widen your perspective on what the nature of your relationship with your T means. Feeling connected to your T is not a destination or even necessarily a journey. The relationship is more like a wonderful tool that helps you work on what you need to work on.

Anne

I've never had a real realtionship before therapy. Oh yes I've lived with people but they wore a mask so I leant to wear a mask. A real realationship is about being yourself with someone else that is also able to be themselves. A therapist is a therapist but there's also part of them in that room with you. I know now when I'm with someone that when they are being real and also able to know now when someone isn't being real, even if they don't know it.

Just another 2 cents

My T teaches systems theory. She talks about how unstable and uncomfortable relationships are when it is with just one person in a vacuum... So... we almost instinctively try to bring in a third, fourth, or and entire PC.

By her theory what you are doing is normal due to the intensity and discomfort of a strictly 2 person dynamic.

If you are with a T that is with any of the pschoanylitic theories IMO this discomfort is intensified as "part of the process". One, of many, reasons I avoid those schools of thought.