[Velvet Cactus]

hI ALL! Go easy on me please I'm in a fragile place right now,

Last week I had made the decision to stop therapy. My T had cancelled multiple sessions (For legit reasons but still...) and I felt I needed more consistency. Plus I could no longer handle his lack of empathy and Darth Vader stare. We had completely gone off the rails.

I asked if we could get out of the office and we wound up in the hospital's cafeteria. We did have privacy to some extent. Previous to that we had considered going outside- T thought it too cold, but for me he would get his jacket. I jokingly said why did he need it? Wasn't he in fact made out of Teflon?
As soon as he sat down he crossed his arms over his chest and I lost it! THere it is again! I told him. He suggested I was personalizing his actions. I did not think so-that that gesture was pretty universal in meaning. He went quiet.
I told him that I would be stopping therapy because I would have nothing to say in near future and I did not want to waste his time. Well he got the truth out of me-I asked him why could he have not been 80 years old and looking like Freud? Why did I finally meet someone who was my intellectual equal (something I desperately need in my life) and it winds up being him? Without emotion he says Life just works out that way some time. Cold comfort. With nothing to lose at this point I asked him point blank if we could just work on a friendship in the real world. I got some emotion out of him then! I am NOT going that route he a said emphatically. So I told him that the therapeutic relationship was a complete sham! It was inauthentic in that it was imbalanced in terms of disclosure and if he was only going to offer feedback I could do that on my own. The whole scenario was only serving to make matters worse. The whole construct in no way represented a real friendship. I was done I repeated. ( I should note here the dynamics between us is different than most T client pairings.)
Long story short in the next hour he disclosed to me things only his closest friends and family would know. They were all bombshells. I was broadsided but I felt honoured that he trusted me that much...And as a result my guard dog went to sleep and he witnessed for the first time who I really was. Vulnerable and far more likeable than he had ever imagined.
Talk turned to relationships. He has been divorced about three minutes so I recognized all the issues he was dealing with. We did not discuss that. ( I know he was extremely hurt and still is by it.) He maintains that lust goes a long way in a relationship. (Oddly, he looked down appologetically when he said it. He knows that I am hyper-sensitive about my current lack of attractibility in that dept. due to weight issues). I agreed with him but I pointed out that men go about it differently than women do. I told him men fall in love with the women they are attracted to while women become attracted to whom they fall in love with. A few minutes later he asks is it women who fall in love with whom they are attracted to? No, T! Any how we had a fantastic discussion after which he said "Of course, there's that all-important chemistry. I may have misinterpreted this- but because of the timing of his words I did not feel he meant physical chemistry but he could have. I smiled at him and thought to myself maybe you do get it!
He wanted me to stay in therapy because he felt the 'dress rehearsal' was important. I said the most I could muster was to report once a month. He softly pleaded with me to 'come just to talk'.
Now earlier when I played the actual friend card we had talked about where we could meet I suggested a bar or a cafe which he seemed happy about. Now I see he was still thinking therapeutically. Sigh!
Now it gets really confusing folks!
We talked so long his secretary had to hunt T down to tell him he was 20 min late for his next appointment! During our chat he slowly started to mirror my actions, one of which was really obvious. And I caught him staring at my breasts at least a half a dozen times...
There was a running theme I discovered in our chat. He self-protects a great deal. Which is why the arms cover his chest and he stares neutrally. He says it's the only way he can do his job. He is highly sensitive like I am. This is key because I recognized that in him pretty early on. And I need other highly sensitive introverts to bond with!
We are only 20% of the population and darn hard to find!
Anyhow we go back to his office and I tease him about his Pepsi. I suggest he eat an apple to stay awake instead. He has his back to me when he says "But won't that make the doctor go away?" I laughed and said " I don't think I could get rid of you if I tried ____last name _____! " Oh no! Did that come out out loud??? I thought. I meant I did not think I could keep him away NOT I wasn't able to be without him. So that was left to misinterpretation. He kept staring at the screen. Somewhere in this bit he said something to which I responded We had already violated so many boundaries it was a moot point. Then he noticed my next appointment had been cancelled and actually got ticked off! Why did this happen ? he said. He had forgotten about his conference. I said I would be full of questions for him and he said he doubted he would have the answers. Then he sighed... I thought that really an odd thing to say, like I ought not have confidence in him. I asked him if he had a fake e-mail address. No but did I want his real one he asked perkily. I handed him the appointment card he had originally given me and I had filled it out as if he were the patient and signed DR. my last name. My e-mail was on there. I non-chalantly told him to write if he need to talk. I put my coat on and just opened up my arms wide and we hugged closely and tightly. I could feel his chin on my head as I told him to take care of himself. He patted my back which I found odd - wouldn't one do that to a child? Anyone know?
Then I floated out of the room pleased I had finally connected with another human. And it touched me .
Now while there is some transference there is something greater at play going on between us based on our temperaments but I have taken up too much of your attention already!! Thanks for letting me vent- I cried for hours today trying to figure what to do. Again men like him are just not a dime a dozen and I just don't think I can put myself through years of getting close to him in a restrictive soul-crushing setting. (He maintains that if we were friends certain things would not be disclosed tho him. He's dead wrong - they would more likely be exposed in a friendship. ( I have always had really close male friends.) I know there I would not get the darth vader stare...)
Ok one last key thing. While in the cafeteria, another doc stopped by to ask him how he was doing and he answered honestly. Again full disclosure. Then he asked the doc if he could come up for a visit and have a chat with him. Rather a formal request colleagues just show up at your door. The doc was definitely older and could have been his mentor.

Sorry for the long post I come from a long line of story tellers. Time to go find more Kleenexes...
Velvet

[unaluna]

Okay... are you in the US? You know about the 2-year waiting period? Also, just the - wow, needing to grab him before somebody else does, now that he's divorced - now I see why MY T didn't even MENTION his, and this was a couple of years later! Although he did leave a trail of breadcrumbs. Why are you doing this to him? You could ruin his career. You don't know what he's REALLY like. Why is he getting a divorce? Is it all HER fault, do you think? You are probably smarter than the ex-wife, have higher standards - and she dumped him, right? I know you asked us to be gentle. Why do you think the other doc stopped by the table? I'm guessing this isn't the first time this scenario has played out. This is about you - I can identify with SO MUCH of what you've written here, honestly it could have been written by me. About current T and prev T, pretty much word for word. So I FEEL you, I really do. I still see prev T (i mean literally, not professionally; his office is in my apartment building); I am SO GLAD nothing ever came of my "crush" because I realize NOW how creepy and abusive that would have been. I DID have an affair with a medical provider (not a T) when I was younger, and I gotta say, not one of my prouder moments. By the end I was feeling bullied, even though I entered into it willingly at first. This may soon be out of your hands if he refers you out, or if you've already quit, or whatever. But it does sound like you might have abandonment issues it would be worth exploring.

[CantExplain]

You made contact! What a wonderful feeling that is.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by hankster

Okay... are you in the US? You know about the 2-year waiting period? Also, just the - wow, needing to grab him before somebody else does, now that he's divorced - now I see why MY T didn't even MENTION his, and this was a couple of years later! Although he did leave a trail of breadcrumbs. Why are you doing this to him? You could ruin his career. You don't know what he's REALLY like. Why is he getting a divorce? Is it all HER fault, do you think? You are probably smarter than the ex-wife, have higher standards - and she dumped him, right? I know you asked us to be gentle. Why do you think the other doc stopped by the table? I'm guessing this isn't the first time this scenario has played out. This is about you - I can identify with SO MUCH of what you've written here, honestly it could have been written by me. About current T and prev T, pretty much word for word. So I FEEL you, I really do. I still see prev T (i mean literally, not professionally; his office is in my apartment building); I am SO GLAD nothing ever came of my "crush" because I realize NOW how creepy and abusive that would have been. I DID have an affair with a medical provider (not a T) when I was younger, and I gotta say, not one of my prouder moments. By the end I was feeling bullied, even though I entered into it willingly at first. This may soon be out of your hands if he refers you out, or if you've already quit, or whatever. But it does sound like you might have abandonment issues it would be worth exploring.

Hankster, your online dx really is beyond the pale! I have repetition compulsion and here is a patient with abandonment issues.

Gah!!!!

Funny thing is, now I know you care...Stopdog, watch out!

More to the point....Potpourri of Problems.....multiple issues -- you did connect, but the WORK you are doing...doesn't that take precedence?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Hankster, your online dx really is beyond the pale! I have repetition compulsion and here is a patient with abandonment issues. Gah!!!!

this is exactly why I am not a T - I can only see in others, my own issues. absolutely no objectivity. the watchdog is completely safe from me - i'm a cat person!

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by hankster

this is exactly why I am not a T - I can only see in others, my own issues. absolutely no objectivity. the watchdog is completely safe from me - i'm a cat person!

you mean you too, you too, have a repetition compulsion?

[CantExplain]

To return to the OP...

Velvet, are you going to keep on seeing him as a T? I think that would be best.

You've obviously got a powerful attachment going, and that's good. It sounds complicated, but T can help you untangle the threads.

The big question is, can he handle his feelings for you? I can see him struggling with it, but he's clearly doing his best. I hope he's getting good supervision.

You're in for a roller-coaster ride, and that can be very painful. But it is healing in the long run.

[rainbow8]

Velvet, I read it all and I'm not sure what to say. I am thinking about boundaries being crossed but maybe not. I'm thinking of red flags but maybe not. I'm thinking lots of transference but maybe not. I'm thinking of T being vulnerable and roles being reversed but maybe not. I'm thinking mostly that I don't want you to get hurt.

[Velvet Cactus]

Hi everyone!
Thanks for the feedback and the hugs! I needed both. First off the bat I have to tell you that this whole thing has taken me by complete surprise. I have never had transference issues with a T including the one I rented an apartment from and posed uh sat for his wife the painter. I knew all his kids etc etc.
When I first met T I was not moved by him in any way. Until I put two and two together and recognized we were both Highly Sensitive Intorverts ( look up highly sensitive people on the net - some of you may recognize yourselves and be thrilled because we are the most misunderstood and PATHOLOGIZED in therapy!!!!
Ok I have to go I am on library computer and time's up. Back tomorrow! See you then! Good Night!
Velvet
PS I have definitely stopped crying!

[Velvet Cactus]

Originally Posted by hankster

Okay... are you in the US? You know about the 2-year waiting period? Also, just the - wow, needing to grab him before somebody else does, now that he's divorced - now I see why MY T didn't even MENTION his, and this was a couple of years later! Although he did leave a trail of breadcrumbs. Why are you doing this to him? You could ruin his career. You don't know what he's REALLY like. Why is he getting a divorce? Is it all HER fault, do you think? You are probably smarter than the ex-wife, have higher standards - and she dumped him, right? I know you asked us to be gentle. Why do you think the other doc stopped by the table? I'm guessing this isn't the first time this scenario has played out. This is about you - I can identify with SO MUCH of what you've written here, honestly it could have been written by me. About current T and prev T, pretty much word for word. So I FEEL you, I really do. I still see prev T (i mean literally, not professionally; his office is in my apartment building); I am SO GLAD nothing ever came of my "crush" because I realize NOW how creepy and abusive that would have been. I DID have an affair with a medical provider (not a T) when I was younger, and I gotta say, not one of my prouder moments. By the end I was feeling bullied, even though I entered into it willingly at first. This may soon be out of your hands if he refers you out, or if you've already quit, or whatever. But it does sound like you might have abandonment issues it would be worth exploring.

Hankster what in tarnation am I going to do with you?! Where does my thingie say I am from? We have no such rules in the great white north! I have no intention of ruining his carreer- matter of fact I brought up the fact that I would do nothing to put him in hot water. He informed me that he is not an actual employee of the hospital so he can do pretty much what he likes. I HAD to point out to him that he was missing the fact that I was showing concern for his end of it and that while he may not get in trouble per se, his reputation could take a hit. The doc who came by naturally assumed I was not a patient. Appologized to me for interupting as he really wanted to see how T was doing. I have no doubt that this man or his supervisor set him straight and to re-establish shrink boundaries. Except it turns out he isn't one which explains why, although extremely intelligent, I seem to know more than he does! ( I am going to have to point out to him something key that he missed in my behaviour that he ought to have called me out on and did not because he was not paying attention.)
No Hankster abandonment issues aren't in my psychological pizza. I know how much his divorce and separation of he and his children is killing him. So I know how vulnerable he is so I don't want to go there! He needs time to heal and start dating whenever. I do not wish to add to his fragililty.
Which is why I want to quit- he's not doing me any good and he has cancelled so many times I don't feel he is there for me either. (The one appointment was the anniversary of my mom's death.) All I get is his protective wall.
So do you all get it now- I just want his friendship but that may cost me in the long run because not many men get that you are not supposed to dump the women you don't --c-in your life. I would be Humpty Dumpty-AGAIN!
So either way I am scr___d. If I stay in therapy it will kill me because as a highly sensitive person ( we fall for people quickly and deeply) I just can't fake a relationship. I can't do "dress rehearsals" Actually that is cruel and unusual punishment for someone like me. So I have to get out of this mess one way or another. Oh his ex-would be about 10 years younger than I and she was a research assistant so she's no dummy. As for what kind of wife she was I don't want to ever know-it has nothing to do with me. As far as I 'know" she may be at the other end of the country with the kids. And that's why he's devastated. The little he has said of the ex is tainted with anger so I know that he is still enmeshed with her.
Yup! I clearly see the big caution sign folks!
Sorry I could not address all the comments-will do so fri or saturday.
In meantime hope all is well in your corners of the world!

[Velvet Cactus]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

You made contact! What a wonderful feeling that is.

Yuup!!!
But with the sex that doesn't shave their legs!!
Unless of course they race bikes!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Velvet Cactus

Yuup!!!
But with the sex that doesn't shave their legs!!
Unless of course they race bikes!

Enjoy your new washing machine!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Velvet Cactus

If I stay in therapy it will kill me because as a highly sensitive person (we fall for people quickly and deeply) I just can't fake a relationship.

I are an HSP also.

Originally Posted by Velvet Cactus

Where does my thingie say I am from? We have no such rules in the great white north!

I can't see profiles on my old Trêo. There might not be a national Canadian law proscribing sex per se, but there are association codes. here is a pretty comprehensive yet very interesting article on boundary crossings and boundary violations, and how transference and cross-transference may be operating in these situations.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/10/4/312.full

[Velvet Cactus]

Originally Posted by hankster

I are an HSP also. I can't see profiles on my old Trêo. There might not be a national Canadian law proscribing sex per se, but there are association codes. here is a pretty comprehensive yet very interesting article on boundary crossings and boundary violations, and how transference and cross-transference may be operating in these situations.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/10/4/312.full

Many Thanks Hankster! This abstract is quite thorough. And he does have the CMA to answer to.
There would be no sexual boundary crossing - ever. I have only seen him 5 times of which 3 he wasn't actually all there. He has no power over me it's equally shared. The truth is, I don't think he ought to be working right now. Period. But I don't know how he is performing the rest of his duties.

I can bet his supervisor and colleagues have advised him to get back in shrink mode-fast. That he was in a vulnerable place right now and needs to buck up. I don't think the poor man has ever had to deal with transference, much less his own counter transference. He is clearly in over his head.
That being said I can't have a T that shows zero empathy and does not ask questions. Oh BTW I'm seing him for anxiety. That's it. Including how to be more comfortable around men and not see them as friends! Yes he needs to transfer me yesterday. See why I wanted to end therapy last week?I know a potential train wreck when I see one....I would cancel next session but I have something I need to retrive from his office. (Just a manual don't get excited,now!) Darn!!!!
While I think of it, there is no one I could even be trarnsfering onto him.... I like him for him. Period.

[Velvet Cactus]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Enjoy your new washing machine!

Oh I am! It's so smart I can't believe it!!!

[Velvet Cactus]

Originally Posted by Velvet Cactus

Many Thanks Hankster! This abstract is quite thorough. And he does have the CMA to answer to.
There would be no sexual boundary crossing - ever. I have only seen him 5 times of which 3 he wasn't actually all there. He has no power over me it's equally shared. The truth is, I don't think he ought to be working right now. Period. But I don't know how he is performing the rest of his duties.

I can bet his supervisor and colleagues have advised him to get back in shrink mode-fast. That he was in a vulnerable place right now and needs to buck up. I don't think the poor man has ever had to deal with transference, much less his own counter transference. He is clearly in over his head.
That being said I can't have a T that shows zero empathy and does not ask questions. Oh BTW I'm seing him for anxiety. That's it. Including how to be more comfortable around men and not see them as friends! Yes he needs to transfer me yesterday. See why I wanted to end therapy last week?I know a potential train wreck when I see one....I would cancel next session but I have something I need to retrive from his office. (Just a manual don't get excited,now!) Darn!!!!
While I think of it, there is no one I could even be trarnsfering onto him.... I like him for him. Period.

The train wreck involve more trains than one could ever imagine...
I'm cured again! LOL!