[ClementineK]

Hello all....

I'm fairly new here...I've started a few threads in the past. I'm also a self-admitted "lurker" But really...I find that this forum has helped me understand a lot about therapy. But...I guess I have a problem with being able to put my relationship with T into a coherent perspective?

I have depression, (maybe bipolar ll), PTSD, a dissociative disorder (T hasn't specified), and plenty of trust/attachment problems. Anyway here is the problem.....

I can't seem to settle into a comfortable place with her. There's been times she's made me feel very cared for, and definitely gone above and beyond. She's endlessly patient and kind to me. She's a very well respected Dr. You would think that I would always be appreciative of this.

...But then there are times when I think, "Why would she do this if she really cares?" ...Which makes me think it must *all* have been an "act." Sometimes it's little tiny things and I am being unreasonable. But it doesn't feel that way. For instance:

When I was hospitalized the first time and very scared and upset, she told me over the phone she "will be there tomorrow." I waited all day and she never showed. She has said she is sorry...we've talked about it..but it still bothers me.

Here's a small example that shouldn't be a big deal. At my last appt, I became very dissociated. Then I end up getting upset and trying not to cry. So I barely get it out that I am having a hard time, when the beeper goes off and she instantly does her, "But it's getting late and it's time to stop" thing. No, "Are you ok?" or anything. I mean she goes over with people, she is not a very punctual T. So then I feel like, "She doesn't care."

So how can T care one day, but the next, i question whether it's always been "an act"? What is wrong with me? Even a less-than-connected session can have me feeling this way, on a smaller scale.

Sorry for such a long post....I tried to edit it down, but I am not very good at that.

[ECHOES]

I think, in spite of the fact that something prevented her from getting there when she said she would, it was her caring that initiated her saying she would be there.
That would be so hard to get past, waiting all day for her and being so disappoionted.
I admire you for working on this!

I think we are super sensitive and pick up on things others wouldn't. I know my T has said more than once, "Oh.... you would pick up on that" which also means I chose to hear something that could be negative, that I 'zero' in on things like that.

I read very recently in a post here somewhere... when a patient was challenging their T about caring being real, or just part of what we pay for. The T's response (and I love this!) was that he/she was being paid for their time, but no one could pay him/her to care. I think that makes a lot of sense. I like it.

[Perna]

I cheat :-) When I feel someone I am dealing with and like does not seem to care about me, I go back to being "selfish" and look at why I, myself, am in the relationship? We aren't in therapy to be cared about, we are in therapy to learn how to care for ourselves properly? That other people who care for us have trouble showing their care for us only makes me feel better about myself; I'm right here with me and though I make mistakes with myself, I can instantly "fix" that mistake to my satisfaction!

On the "Daily Challenge" site today I was challenged to not eat or drink anything sugary tomorrow until midday and see how my energy felt. Today I had sweetened coffee and 3 Dunkin Donuts glazed doughnuts and "plan" to compare that with unsweetened coffee and a bowl of oatmeal tomorrow

An Arabian proverb says, "All sun makes a desert". If our T's were "perfect" in caring for us, what would we learn? We would not have to learn what was good/less good for ourselves; what we liked, what we did not like, would we? When we left therapy, would we know how to care for ourselves, having no practice?

I believe therapy is about that contrast between knowing what feels good to us and learning who, what, when, where, and how to attain it? The learning requires "mistakes" or we can't see what it is we need to learn.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I know my T has said more than once, "Oh.... you would pick up on that" which also means I chose to hear something that could be negative, that I 'zero' in on things like that.

Ha! I've heard this! and not just from T's. wow.

[CantExplain]

Hi Clementine!

1. Your feelings are normal.
2. I suggest you talk to T about them.

[ClementineK]

Thank you guys : )

Echoes, thanks for reminding me that it was her caring that caused her to say she would be there...you're right. And I agree on the super-sensitive thing also Yeah...I can be super sensitive to what people do, say and how they say it. I like the part about T's caring isn't what we pay for also....that is a good way of understanding it. I am sure it is true. I am sure in reality no doctor can care just because we have walked into their office and it is our hour.....the caring is the human part. I just wish the relationship was easier to understand...it warps my attachment-issued-brain trying to understand it LOL.

Perna, I like what you said about going back to asking why you are in the relationship, and what you called "selfish" mode, although I actually wouldn't call it selfish.
I do that sometimes, too, but when I do it, it really is selfish I've gone into my black-and-white thinking mode on Dr. L a few times and said some really cold things, because in my mind, she doesn't care so has no feelings to hurt
And you're right about T's not being perfect...and if they were, how could we learn to work with a relationship?

Hankster, it sounds like a lot of us are super-sensitive...It makes me feel better that I'm not alone in this

CantExplain, Thanks for reminding me of what I already (sort of) knew. Well, by "already knew," I mean I know it is what my logical brain would tell me if only it worked better But yeah, you are right....I should talk to my T about these things more. I wish it were easier but I will work harder on this. And thanks for telling me my feelings are normal

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by ClementineK

But...I guess I have a problem with being able to put my relationship with T into a coherent perspective?

I think you may find this at the end of your relationship, not at the beginning!

By which I mean, if your relationship with T ever becomes 100% straight with no trace of transference, you will probably be ready to leave.

Originally Posted by ClementineK

Hello all....

I'm fairly new here...I've started a few threads in the past. I'm also a self-admitted "lurker" But really...I find that this forum has helped me understand a lot about therapy. But...I guess I have a problem with being able to put my relationship with T into a coherent perspective?

I have depression, (maybe bipolar ll), PTSD, a dissociative disorder (T hasn't specified), and plenty of trust/attachment problems. Anyway here is the problem.....

I can't seem to settle into a comfortable place with her. There's been times she's made me feel very cared for, and definitely gone above and beyond. She's endlessly patient and kind to me. She's a very well respected Dr. You would think that I would always be appreciative of this.

...But then there are times when I think, "Why would she do this if she really cares?" ...Which makes me think it must *all* have been an "act." Sometimes it's little tiny things and I am being unreasonable. But it doesn't feel that way. For instance:

When I was hospitalized the first time and very scared and upset, she told me over the phone she "will be there tomorrow." I waited all day and she never showed. She has said she is sorry...we've talked about it..but it still bothers me.

Here's a small example that shouldn't be a big deal. At my last appt, I became very dissociated. Then I end up getting upset and trying not to cry. So I barely get it out that I am having a hard time, when the beeper goes off and she instantly does her, "But it's getting late and it's time to stop" thing. No, "Are you ok?" or anything. I mean she goes over with people, she is not a very punctual T. So then I feel like, "She doesn't care."

So how can T care one day, but the next, i question whether it's always been "an act"? What is wrong with me? Even a less-than-connected session can have me feeling this way, on a smaller scale.

Sorry for such a long post....I tried to edit it down, but I am not very good at that.

I have this same problem with my T. She has gone above & beyond for me, but when we are in sessions it's a different story. I'm still pondering whether she genuinely cares & if so why is she so insensitive to my feelings. A part of me wants to quit because I feel like I'm getting no where, but the other part doesn't want to because of what she has done for me. I'm confused & I feel like I can't be honest with her to share how I feel. I really do like her & think that she cares to some degree, but if so why does she act the way she does? Hmmm...I don't know.

I just wanted you to know you're not alone in dealing with a T like that. *hugs*

[growlycat]

The T has to spur us on somehow. If we got everything we needed we wouldn't do any work. I think the tension is there to get us to verbalize those awful feelings that start to swell up. It keeps things moving. I'm sure she cares, it's just the way T's operate!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

...if your relationship with T ever becomes 100% straight with no trace of transference, you will probably be ready to leave.

wooo, thanks for this; makes terminating with T1 look a lot less unreasonable. I really needed to hear this.

ClementineK - it will take courage, but try to stay open and keep letting yr T know how you react to her. Rage, if that's what you feel. Even if you rage, it's not her you are angry with; that sounds strange maybe, but in time I think you will begin to realize it, and there's a lot of learning in it.

PS I am so very sorry she didn't come to hosp to see you. that made me cry.

[WikidPissah]

T's aren't perfect...it sux but they aren't. I think sometimes we expect them to be superhuman and never make mistakes, but obviously that's not possible. The mistakes cause letdowns and get us to second guess the caring part.

[vanessaG]

I read this yesterday? I think but I didn't have time to respond...I completley understand where your coming from. I feel the same way. My T and I actually had a session last week on this.
It's hard, I know...and I still struggle with it but my T did try & make it more logical to me but still...lol. It goes completley back n forth back n forth. 'ohhh T cares so much look at what he did, but then ohhh wait he only cares cause he's getting paid...how much or does he REALLY care'. Ugh it's like an endless battle it seems sometimes!

I hope you can work through this with your T. I really really understand how your feelig and your most Defitnely not alone. ) hugs!

[ClementineK]

You guys are awesome!! Thanks for all the replies!

CantExplain, Thanks, I hadn't thought about it like that. That sounds like an impossible thing to me! lol.....but it wouldn't be the first time I've said that about something and been proven wrong. Sometimes I think my T is magic! I don't know how she does it.

I'll try to remember to think of it that way. Sometimes it seems like the chaotic emotions will go on forever. This is something that tempts me to quit sometimes.

SoFragile, I'm sorry it's so hard. I know how that feels. Yeah, when I look at it in a calm and logical state of mind, (which doesn't happen so often lol) I see she has gone "above and beyond." But then it's like, hey, if she cared how could she say that? Or not respond coldly to that? For me, I realize it's my black and white thinking. I know it's hard to be honest about how you feel about it. I've been trying to do that a lot more lately, and sometimes it just opens a can of worms that I wish I could close. Then it p****s me off, and I say to myself, "Well, I'm so upset, I'm not okay, and I'm sure she's completely forgotten about it and is just fine and going on her merry little way. "

I know it's so confusing. I'm sorry. At the same time I know it's the best thing for us to talk to them about it....it's hard but it does at least feel good to get it out. This is when I first started crying in therapy. Out of sadness and frustration. I ask myself if she thinks I'm crazy but I'm realizing more and more that T's hear a lot of this. Even if they didn't, we still have to talk about these things to get through it.

GrowlyCat, What you said does make a lot of sense. It kind of makes me want to ask my T about that.....And maybe throw a tantrum about it.
I see the reasoning behind it......It just makes me wonder how they can deliberately do that if they care so much.....But then it does logically make sense. It just feels a little....sadistic to me.....but then that's got to be some of my transference going on there, I am quite sure!! lol! Thank you for that insight.

SittingAtWatersEdge, You're right....it does take a lot of courage. I feel ashamed a lot.....even when I am in, "Dr. L doesn't care" mode, I still feel like a worm when I say something remotely unkind to her Because she still acts so darn kind most of the time Sometimes I wish she'd stop that! lol! I can't imagine being brave enough to express rage yet, but I'm sure it will come out eventually anyway..

More than anything, than you so much for saying what you did about her not coming to see me at the hospital. That really touched me...I guess it's that someone out there understands how that would feel so well that it would bring them to cry. It's hard to feel something that big without being understood. I'm grateful that I'm understood here. The people that I know in RL would never in a million years understand that. Big, big hugs! Thank you.

WikidPissah, You're right. Sometimes I forget she's not perfect and is in fact a human being. She can come pretty close to perfect sometimes, though. I really need to remember that she is human. And a really good one, at that. And if it weren't for the mistakes how would we be able to work on the relationship....and how would I ever get the opportunity to act like a nutcase or show her how messed up I am

VanessaG, Sessions on this subject are so hard, aren't they? I'm glad your T tried to help you better understand it logically.I think the problem there, though, is that none of these feelings are logical....and they're really painful. I know my T could try to help me understand these things logically until she is blue in the face...and none of it makes sense to me. In fact, sometimes the more she says the more cruel it sounds...no matter how logical it may be...

I definitely hear you about the "back n forth, back n forth." ....It really takes a lot out of you, huh? I find it very exhausting...

Did anything your T said about it make any sense? If he did, I'd love to hear it. lol!! Big hugs to you.....You're not alone here, either. We're in good company here.


Geez.....you know....I've really been just avoiding this topic so much with her lately....I even told her so.....I've been trying to forget the "logical" things she has said that sound so cold, and keep trying to get her to show "emotionally" that she cares. I'm trying really hard to delude myself here....and I know it.

Big hugs to everyone that goes through this. It just plain old sucks.

And thanks for reading this book of a reply, too! lol