[learning1]

I'm kind of confused about what I'm feeling about therapy now. I'm wondering if others have felt this way? Or if it makes sense to you? Or what you did about it?

Three sessions ago I felt very upset and ready to quit. Two sessions ago, after I said I was upset, t was falling all over himself to be supportive. I felt better. He said he felt closer to me. But, the extreme shift in my feelings also left me feeling like therapy is artificial. I've read that the process of rupture and repair is normal in therapy. So even as good as all the supportive things he said make me feel, it's hard to feel that it is genuine when, 5 minutes earlier, I had felt awful and I have to expect to feel awful again. Similarly, it's hard to believe the awful feelings will seem as real or important.

I keep questioning in minute detail to what extent my t is manipulating or causing this rupture and repair process. I can't tell. To some extent he denies it but I'm not good at thinking of questions to push him on it while I'm there. Maybe it doesn't matter; I'm not sure. Even if t is not manipulating it at all, my feelings are still vascilating wildly in a way that makes them seem very unreliable and artificial.

I talked to t about this some but I'm still confused about it.

[unaluna]

I think it's perfectly legitimate to step back, like a surgeon in the middle of an operation, and ask, what are we looking at here? if the rupture repairs feel contrived, say so. but also part of what we are working on is our communication skills, how to get buy-in from the other person, how not to alienate the other person, how to treat the other person as an equal partner and not as someone who has complete power over us. But also - how to let them in. I think I used that phrase, some time ago, to pick a fight here. But now I think I like it - let T into my plastic bubble? Or do I have to go out?

[CantExplain]

Swinging from love to hate and back again seems to be common reaction to strong attachment.

I used to do this all the time. But gradually I settled down. I have to say though, that T gave me no help whatsoever.

Or perhaps remaining calm and stable was the best thing she could do for me?

[Perna]

Therapy tends to make the "awful", less awful, over time. The all-or-none swing; crashing, tsunami waves (where you, the surfer, get wiped out constantly :-) etc. turn into gentle swells in your sea so you can relax some and see the whole picture instead of just trying to survive.

So, don't look at how the extremes seem artificial; they are not, they are what you've got right now but start trying to pay attention to the "distances" between and the number.

I found being "taught" to respond to my T's comments, by rote, artificial but I now understand that there was no other way to get me to see/experience what was going on because I was stuck in my head and not able to get-up-and-walk myself without someone hauling me up and urging me on with leg braces and manipulation by others. I think a lot of us who have hidden stuff or don't understand something yet, get extreme in our expressions at first, which might be unusual for us, but it's just the awkward learning phase; the messy, kid-learning-to-walk with stumbling, unsteady steps and often falling?

[KazzaX]

I knew all therapy was artificial from day 1. They taught us that at high school and university. But its artificial-ness (if that is even a word) is the way it helps us. Everything that comes out of their mouths has been scripted for such an occasion. It is technically manipulation, but manipulation that helps us to recover. That is the whole idea of therapy. Its a bit like doctors who give us pills to manipulate our bodies into becoming well. Same thing.

[stopdog]

Therapy is artificial. That (at least I hope) does not make it worthless.
I swing from rage(not hate) to not dislike for the the therapist - so the distance is not as far. I cannot imagine getting to like let alone love.

I think it depends on the skill of the therapist. If a therapist isn't skilled and fully aware of their own feelings then it could be felt by the client.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Swinging from love to hate and back again seems to be common reaction to strong attachment.

I disagree. I think the swing is a common reaction to trying to establish a strong attachment. A strong attachment is characterized by stability.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Or perhaps remaining calm and stable was the best thing she could do for me?

I call this therapeutic sponging. My therapist could absorb a nuclear detonation I think.

[healed84]

Originally Posted by KazzaX

I knew all therapy was artificial from day 1. They taught us that at high school and university. But its artificial-ness (if that is even a word) is the way it helps us. Everything that comes out of their mouths has been scripted for such an occasion. It is technically manipulation, but manipulation that helps us to recover. That is the whole idea of therapy. Its a bit like doctors who give us pills to manipulate our bodies into becoming well. Same thing.

This is a huge trigger for me.. I have been trying to think of thearpy this way. T went to school to learn the symptoms, and how to help tons MI issues, personality disorders, etc. Along the process they learn tips, techniquies, to treat their clients. However, they can't pay for genuine feelings towards the clients.. or the drive or passion to help people that lead them in the field to begin with.

If I look at it like you, I have hard time connecting, trusting, letting my walls down. I choose to believe that my T truly wants to see me get better.. and I am paying for the how to part. I am not good with manipulation.. I think T is trying to reteach, or in some cases teach me new things.. How to handle emotions, how to react to anxiety, etc.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by KazzaX

I knew all therapy was artificial from day 1. They taught us that at high school and university. But its artificial-ness (if that is even a word) is the way it helps us. Everything that comes out of their mouths has been scripted for such an occasion. It is technically manipulation, but manipulation that helps us to recover. That is the whole idea of therapy. Its a bit like doctors who give us pills to manipulate our bodies into becoming well. Same thing.

I absolutely positively do not agree with this at all. What you are describing here appears to be a scenario in which a patient presents with an emotional problem, the therapist responds with learned evidence-based responses and then magically the patient is better.

Please please please tell me where these therapists are so I can go to one. I would love to save time and money by hiring a therapist that had so mastered human behaviour and emotion that such a contruct were not only possible, but routinely implemented.

A therapy pill as you indicated. What a wonderful thing!

I think the real scenario is far more complicated, far more human, and far more real than what you have been taught or lead to believe.

That's another human being sitting across from us. They respond and react to us, not as robots, but as people. Sure they've picked up techniques that make communication better, but the core of therapy is two people and the chaotic (I mean that mathematically as well as emotionally) interaction between them.

Some believe that it is this interaction that is actually healing, thus the actual words spoken are less important. It's the emotional impetus that drives the recovery. I think this summary is quite accurate in a lot of the cases.

Therapy may, in fact be an artificial situation, but it's how the people in the situation react that is very real.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by healed84

This is a huge trigger for me.. I have been trying to think of thearpy this way. T went to school to learn the symptoms, and how to help tons MI issues, personality disorders, etc. Along the process they learn tips, techniquies, to treat their clients. However, they can't pay for genuine feelings towards the clients.. or the drive or passion to help people that lead them in the field to begin with.

If I look at it like you, I have hard time connecting, trusting, letting my walls down. I choose to believe that my T truly wants to see me get better.. and I am paying for the how to part. I am not good with manipulation.. I think T is trying to reteach, or in some cases teach me new things.. How to handle emotions, how to react to anxiety, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't even try to think of therapy this way. Granted, I do think it can be a beneficial fall back position if things get too upsetting or emotional. This thinking, along with the money that changes hands is the best way I know to minimize the importance and emotional investment that we bring to therapy.

Sometimes we have to do that, but boy, I know if I had set up shop there, I would've gotten nowhere.

It was only through realizing the intrinsic back and forth between my therapist and I, and the genuine, authentic nature of our interaction that my therapy advanced.

It has value - that relationship, and by acknowledging this tremendous value to me, I was able to not only tolerate it, but enjoy it - even translate the attachment and comfort derived from it to others.

[healed84]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Personally, I wouldn't even try to think of therapy this way. Granted, I do think it can be a beneficial fall back position if things get too upsetting or emotional. This thinking, along with the money that changes hands is the best way I know to minimize the importance and emotional investment that we bring to therapy.

Sometimes we have to do that, but boy, I know if I had set up shop there, I would've gotten nowhere.

It was only through realizing the intrinsic back and forth between my therapist and I, and the genuine, authentic nature of our interaction that my therapy advanced.

It has value - that relationship, and by acknowledging this tremendous value to me, I was able to not only tolerate it, but enjoy it - even translate the attachment and comfort derived from it to others.

I agree- I do believe that our relationship is genuine... However, I can't get past the fact that it is a service that I pay for as well. So, I guess the way I justify that.. is b/c he paid to get the skills that he needed to help me gain the skills that I need to be sucessful in my life. I think our interactions are completly genuine and if I thought other wise, I would for sure be looking for a new T.

[learning1]

I agree w Stopdog that therapy is inherently artificial and with healed and ellie and others that it is genuine. KazzaX, I think you must know that the idea "everything that comes out of their mouths is scripted" is an exaggeration. I agree, your idea that some of what they're trained to do helps us, sort of like medicine, is true except it's less less clear cause and effect than medicine.

Anyway, I believe my t is genuinely means something when he says he cares and the other supportive things he says, as well as the challenging things he says. I guess the trouble I'm having is more about the extent to which it's manipulated and artificial versus genuine.

My t is definitely more emotionally expressive than me. I wonder if he means less when he expresses stuff, so it's easy for him to pile on the compliments or the challenges without considering it as much as I would. Sigh. I'm probably supposed to learn to be like that. And I don't think being emotionally expressive is necessarily a bad thing even though I made it sound negative there.

Could it be a good thing that therapy is seeming artificial now so I might take it less seriously?

[learning1]

Originally Posted by hankster

I think it's perfectly legitimate to step back, like a surgeon in the middle of an operation, and ask, what are we looking at here? if the rupture repairs feel contrived, say so. but also part of what we are working on is our communication skills, how to get buy-in from the other person, how not to alienate the other person, how to treat the other person as an equal partner and not as someone who has complete power over us. But also - how to let them in. I think I used that phrase, some time ago, to pick a fight here. But now I think I like it - let T into my plastic bubble? Or do I have to go out?

that's some good stuff to think about. i sure picked a good t for getting lots of practice on not-treating-someone-as-if -they- have-complete-power-over-us since he is such a self confident blabbermouth. It's funny I think I did feel more equal with him when I was talking about how maybe therapy is inherently fake. I felt kind of guilty for saying it later though. I wasn't saying it to be mean but it could be mean.

"how to get buy in" sounds like learning to become an evil manipulative sales person . no wonder i had that dream about having therapy in a run down used car sales place

[CantExplain]

The structure is artificial but the feelings are real.
And that includes feelings T has for the patient.

[sconnie892]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

The structure is artificial but the feelings are real.
And that includes feelings T has for the patient.

Great way of phrasing it CantExplain!

I struggled with the artificial feeling for awhile also. The relationship is artificial in that it is very one sided and is not a relationship one would find in RL. As I began to trust t more part of me wanted to think of her as a friend. But I don't pay my friends by the hour. Some sessions I really have to remind myself that while I genuinely like my t and I greatly respect her, it is still a business relationship. I am paying her for her skills and time as the therapist. I do believe she genuine cares about me as a person and not just because she is being paid. But there are boundaries to the relationship.

[stopdog]

There are boundaries to every healthy relationship. Not the same boundaries in each type of relationship, but boundaries nonetheless.

[WikidPissah]

Therapy sometimes seems fake to me as well. For instance, he never reacts...that's just absurd. People react in real situations. A few times when telling my story he responded with "that makes me angry" yet he showed no signs of anger.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

Therapy sometimes seems fake to me as well. For instance, he never reacts...that's just absurd. People react in real situations. A few times when telling my story he responded with "that makes me angry" yet he showed no signs of anger.

I don't react with clients for the most part. They tell me horrific things they have done (some have been literally axe murderers and such) and I just listen and ask questions, take notes and go on. Showing horror or disgust or undue upsetedness over the horrific things my clients endured to end up murdering someone with an axe would not help them or me to do my job. And one does get a bit of distance or one could not do one's job. I think of therapists like that.

I don't feel like it's artificial or fake.. I was always looking for the smoke and mirrors in the beginning, but there was no illusion to see through. I believe it's real. A slightly different kind of real, sure - but real

[Dreamy01]

I completely agree with Elliemay. The fact the therapy relationship is by nature set apart from the rest of the client's life does not make it artifical or fake. Most therapists are very in touch with their own humanity and are doing the job so they can reach out to another human being in their darkest hour. It takes incredible humanity, strength and congruence to do this. Of course, not all therapists are the genuine article but most of them are. They need money to live as well but it doesn't mean they enjoy taking money off us. I know my T hates it but she has no choice. As said above, I think the t relationship is very real, but a different sort of real. In some ways, it can be more real and deep than some of the connections made in other aspects of life.

[stopdog]

The money part helps keep the client safe.

[Dreamy01]

Yes, it definitely does that too.

Therapists are trained professionals. As part of their training, they are hopefully good listeners, communicators, and are supportive. That isn't artificial for them. They really are very good at it. It comes pretty naturally for them. But as their profession, they know it is their responsibility to maintain healthy boundaries. They cannot be our parents or friends no matter how badly we want them to do so "just this one time". And yes, they receive a salary just like any professional does to do the job they are trained to do. That does not cancel out the genuineness of their work. Personally I am glad to pay my T because it means he is being paid to use the skills he was trained for in the profession he chosen to take on.

Professionals get paid, but money does not negate their dedication to their profession or their passion for what they do or the people they help. It is a fantasy to think they would be able to do it for free. With the exception of perhaps a few truly wealthy individuals in this world or perhaps a few who choose to live in poverty, all professionals have to be paid. Even if your T is working with you for free individually, somehow he is getting paid through an organization, through balancing the books with fees from other clients, through grants or endowments, something. Accept the gift of their listening ear and moral support as coming from their hearts because their skills are only done well through their hearts.

[learning1]

I might not have explained my difficulty very well. I don't intellectually believe therapy is artificial (at least not in a bad way). The problem is I FEEL it's artificial LATELY (NOT ALWAYS). It FEELS like therapy just doesn't matter and can't make any difference in my real life. Has anyone else had that happen at some point in their therapy?