[scorpiosis37]

I have a difficult time asserting myself and continuing to say "NO" when I am being pressured into doing something. This is a topic I've discussed with my T and, while I've definitely made progress in this area, it's still an issue for me.

Since it's going to be awhile before I see T, I wanted to share it here and see what feedback others might have for me. I also think it will be helpful to "process" this a bit before I go into my next session.

Here goes:
I have a chronic pain issue. I've been going to various doctors for 3 years, trying to figure out what is causing the problem. The reason it is taking so long to get a proper diagnosis is that waiting times to see new specialists are incredibly long. Once they rule out that is an A kind of problem, then I have to start all over, waiting to see a B kind of doctor to see if it is a B problem. They've ruled out A, B, C, and D, and now believe it is an E kind of problem. This is what I suspected even before I went to see doctors A, B, C, and D, but they won't let you see an E doctor before ruling out A, B, C, and D. It also makes sense that I have an E kind of problem since both of my parents have medical conditions in the E family. My first appointment with an E doctor was supposed to be next week, but they called, said the doc is going on vacation, and they need to reschedule my appointment. This means I have to wait an additional 2 months. Anyway, in an effort to be helpful, my friend recommended that I see her massage therapist to see if I can get some relief in the meantime. I agreed to TALK to her massage therapist to see IF I thought making an appointment would in fact be helpful. So, I went with her yesterday. She went in to her appointment and left me at the front desk to talk to who I believe is the owner of the place. Within 2 minutes, the owner told me that I do NOT have an E problem-- that I really have an A problem, that Western medicine is always wrong, that they have cured dozens of clients with A problems, and that they can probably cure my A problem in one massage session. She then opened their schedule book and told me when I should come in. In an effort to be polite, I told her very respectfully that I felt comfortable with the path my "Western" doctors were on, and that perhaps seeking out their massage services was not best for me. She didn't take no for an answer. She reitered that I have an A problem (after i said "no, I don't") and then she said "we have an opening X day at 10am. You will come in then." I said "No, I have to work then." Then she said "When do you get off work?" I said "3pm." Then, she said "okay, you will come in at 3:30. Your appointment is with NAME." She literally wrote it in the book before I could even say no. But I did say no. I tried to (politely) wiggle my way out of the situation by saying I was unsure about getting massage, that I should check first with my medical doctors, that I had a difficult work schedule, etc. But she was just SOOOO pushy it made me feel like I HAD to make an appointment. If I were not there with my friend, I would have just walked out the door. But, because my friend was there getting a treatment and she has a good relationship with the place, I accepted the appointment card they were pushing in my face and left. Then, this morning, I called to cancel the appointment. I knew before I even left the salon that I was going to cancel the appointment, but I accepted it anyway because I felt like I HAD to. Rationally, I know that I didn't HAVE to. I know I can say no and, even if they don't hear me the first time, I can continue to say "no" until they get it. But it's difficult for me to do that when they are SOOO pushy. I don't have a problem saying "no" in situations where the other party is being polite and respectful. When I feel like I have a choice, saying "no" isn't an issue. It only becomes an issue when I'm in a situation where the other person is being pushy/ forceful/ aggressive/ bullying. It makes me almost freeze up and back down. I feel like, no matter what i say, the other person isn't going to listen. They're just going to push their own agenda and talk loudly at me until I give in. I feel like the only way I can get them to stop is to say "yes." It seems like such a simple problem to solve: "Just say no and walk away." But this strategy almost doesn't work. When I said "no" to this woman yesterday, she started writing me an appointment anyway. When I started walking away, she followed me and told me that I would continue to be in pain until I accepted an appointment. She literally said: "We can solve your pain in 30 minutes. Isn't that worth it? You're too busy to take 30 minutes out of your schedule to solve your pain? Even if you're skeptical, what do you lose by taking 30 minutes out of your day?"

So, I guess my question is: How do you handle these situations? How do you say "no" in a way that makes pushy people actually LISTEN to you? I know she heard me say "no" several times-- she just didn't LISTEN. How do I stop FEELING like the only way to get out of these situations is to agree with the pushy person? I know that I don't have to, and yet, when I'm in that moment and I just want the person to leave me alone, I often agree because it's the fastest way to get them to stop.

[mixedup_emotions]

I can relate to that kind of situation, to freezing up and backing down when feeling like I'm being cornered or pressured.

What I am learning is that instead of addressing the content of the situation, address the feelings....Address how you feel about the aggressiveness, how you feel disrespected by being pushed, etc. Ultimately, though, learning that we have choices and that no one has the right to make them for us is optimal. I am still working on this.

[unaluna]

boy, I feel sorry for your friend! just don't give them your credit card to pay for the appt in advance, that's what my FORMER chiro does. they might see me more if they weren't so pushy.

sounds like the desk is instructed (or simply wants) to close the deal, period. "thanks but no thanks" and walk away. If she writes an appt, what do you care? btw, this is the same "what do you care?" that I asked someone else here, about what do you care what your T thinks about you? What's the saying? "What someone else thinks about you is none of your business." Something like that.

This incident however was NOT on you. These people were being totally insensitive to YOUR choices, and rude to boot. Miss Manners says to just keep saying "excuse me?" until they get the point. But maybe you need to work on your boundaries, is what you're saying?

I have the same problem and that feeling of being pressured into something is so upsetting. For me it is a teacher in our department. She is just one of those abrasive kinds of people who tells people what to do rather than asks, and when I have told her no I have been greeted with a barrage of emails, guilt trips, etc. that have completely upset me. I finally told her that last time that this happened that she had to stop asking because I was getting upset about the whole thing. She actually apologized to me, saying it wasn't that important, and that was the end of it. Grr. Why she refused to hear me say no the times I had said it previously, I'm not sure, but as soon as she finally had to face how her demands were affecting me personally she backed off.

[scorpiosis37]

Thank-you for the responses!

Originally Posted by hankster

boy, I feel sorry for your friend!

Why? I'm actually a bit nervous about having to tell my friend how pressured I felt by the owner & that I chose to cancel the appointment. I'm afraid she's going to feel as though I "rejected" her offer of advice/help. I want her to understand how uncomfortable and pressured I felt, but I'm afraid she'll side with the salon over me. She SWEARS BY her message place!

Farmgirl, I completely relate to your experience with that other teacher, and I'm glad you were finally able to get her to back off a bit. Thank-you for sharing that. In fact, it reminded me so much of one of my own colleagues! However, her abrasive/pushy recommendations tend to be more personal, rather than professional. This week, she decided to recommend certain hair products to me. I said, politely, that I'm very satisfied with the hair products I currently use. My friend is a celebrity stylist and gives me hair products for free. Still, she ignored my "I'm not interested" and proceeded to give me the card for her hair place. I said "no thank you" and she still forced the card on me saying "in case you change your mind." She has done the same with essential oil recommendations, fitness recommendations, restaurant recommendations, recommendations about where to take my girlfriend on dates, what colors I should wear on dates, etc. (Even though I have NEVER taken ONE of her recommendations).

Maybe I should try to the approach you and Mixed_Emotions suggest about telling her (and others) how these kind of pushy gestures make me FEEL instead of trying to "justify" to them why I am saying "no" to X, Y, Z. Maybe if they realized the EFFECT they were having on me they would finally stop!

I also relate to the issue of having health issue that some people are sure they have the answer for. Actually it is my husband who has the health problem, and because he walks using crutches or a cane and his legs are usually wrapped up and in braces, the world seems to feel free to offer their "advice" to him all the time. They will do it to me too if they know my husband's story. Most of the time we just listen politely, let them get it out of their system, and move on. But sometimes we have to get more assertive in asking them to cease and desist. I hate having to do that but I know they mean well, but I basically have to tell them they are wasting their breath, this has gone on for over 30 years for him and he is under very good medical care.

I think you handled it appropriately. Sometimes it is just less stressful to go along at the moment and then cancel later. I'm not all that conflict adverse, and I would have handled it the same way. The bigger issue is probably how you handle things with your friend. I agree with farmergirl and mue, that focusing on your feelings about it is the way to go.

[Perna]

Nothing bad would happen if they pushed an appointment on you like that and you said "no" and did not show up. They will not come looking for you and should not say anything to your friend (if they have made that association which they may not have).

But if it had been me, I would have taken the opposite approach, the one you sort of took but with angst to yourself and just taken their card and called today to cancel. If you get someone not listening, what does it hurt to do what you did? Nothing except you feel bad about it and as if it is your fault for not getting up in the woman's face, yelling at her, and stuffing her card down her throat

Take the path to least resistance for yourself, you cannot be any more assertive than you were because they were being unreasonable. Don't work too hard to please or be kind to such people!

I took a long time learning this; my stepmother use to force food and things on me when I left after having dinner with my parents and we'd get in arguments about it and one night she "gave up" on me and gave whatever to my husband and he took it and thanked her. I was feeling bad about him but then he explained when we got to the car that when someone gives you something it is then yours and one's only job is to take it. What you do with it is up to you! As he graphically said, "you could throw it in the gutter here if you'd like" :-) So, if people hand you something, want to argue with you instead of listen, just take what they give and then do whatever you like with it.

That's why I don't feel bad about junk mail; I have the recycle/trash bin right next to my front door and stop there after getting the mail and "weed" and then move on into my home with the "good" stuff

[Sannah]

Sounds like you are getting triggered. Did this bully scenario happen a lot in your past? When you are triggered it makes it much more difficult to handle because all your feelings from all of the past times are coming back in the moment so you are dealing with a lot in that moment.

[ECHOES]

It's hard and takes practice to say no and especially to have to say no again and add something that ends the barrage. Something like "Thanks, I appreciate your suggestion. I'll think about it." comes to mind, and to keep repeating. "I'll think about it. Thanks."
The pushy person might get frustrated, but that's their issue. Stating assertively what you want is your part in it and nothing more. You don't "owe" it to your friend to follow a suggestion.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

I think you did just fine in this situation. It's the pushy person who has the problem.

Sometimes you just have to agree with "pushy" people to get them to disengage with you. Sometimes arguing or saying no is just not going to have any effect. I sometimes recall the lesson from a really interesting memoir titled, "The Last Time I wore a Dress", mostly about a young woman who was institutionalized in her teens in the 1970's for essentially being transgendered. She relayed an anecdote where a crazy teen in her institution confronted her in a hallway and accused her of stealing her bones. Transgender girl tries to reason with her, explaining that no one can steal your bones and even if they could, the fact that she was standing in the hallway and not flopping about like a boneless chicken was proof that she still had them. Crazy girl continues and escalates her hostility until the other young woman says, "I'm sorry for stealing your bones. I put them back in your room." Crazy girl immediately wanders off, satisfied.

Sometimes, with some people, you just gotta give them back their bones. I grew up with a father who demanded that you say a certain thing to be able to escape punishment, and I've run into a few people (once, a former boss) who were like that. You just had to agree with whatever they were trying to get you to agree with, and/or apologize for what they thought I'd done, and then we could move on. No matter if I was in the right or my viewpoint was the logical and obviously correct one, there is no arguing with some people. They will insist on the response they want and once I realize this, I just give them back their bones and get the freak out of there.

Listen, you're awesome. I really enjoy reading your posts. I need to keep that story in mind, because I grew up CONSTANTLY having to give back bones, and now I RESENT the hell out of having to give back bones. I need to let go of the resentment, give them back the bones and get the freak out of there. Best advice I've heard in a long time. Thank you!

[elliemay]

I agree with Listen. It's really no skin (or bones) off your back to say "okay" and just move on. The irrational is the irrational. By definition there is no reasoning with them.

Sometimes I think there is a pervasive feeling that we have to be heard about everything we say. While we have a right to our boundaries, being listened to in such a fashion is simply not going to happen all the time.

We get to decide what we want others to hear and what what we don't really care that much about.

FWIW I think you handled that situation beautifully, while respecting your friend's respect of the place. You can now follow up (if you want of course) with your health care providers and see if a massage will hurt.

Who knows, if there is no harm, then it might actually help....