[peaches100]

I have a situation I need help figuring out what to do.

I had a friend for 15 years. She was 30 years older than me, so there was a sort of parent-child dynamic around it. Since the friendship started when i was 21 and she was 51, it fit at the time. But as i got older, it became a little more problematic.

Over time, I became very attached to her, and her to me. We did lots of things normal friends do (going out to lunch, garage saling, the mininstry, etc.). She often called me her "daughter" or "little friend." I'm not close to my mom, and she doesn't have any kids. And since we were in the same congregation, she felt like my spiritual mom. Things went well for 15 years. The only real problem during that time was that she and my husband greatly disliked one another. But since I loved them both, I just stayed out of it.

The real problems started when i got clinically depressed. Part of what seemed to trigger me into it was that I noticed what I felt was a cooling off of her affection toward me. I noticed she was getting close to other young people in the congregation, and doing all the little special things for them that she used to do with me, such as giving them cards and little tokens of friendship, like coffee mugs, etc. She started spending more time with them and seeking me out less. I'm sure alot of this was the depression talking. . .

Anyway, my depression got very bad. And this friend couldn't understand that it was an illness. She couldn't figure out what was wrong with her normally happy little friend. I became withdrawn, lost weight, and was haunted by past traumas. I sought out counseling, even though she told me not to because she doesn't believe in it. Instead of being encouraging and supportive, or even reassuring me of her love, she became critical toward me. She believed I was just getting spiritually weak, getting distracted from spiritual things, and developing a negative attitude. At one point, she sent me a letter, which was a strong admonition to get myself together spiritually and "stop wallowing in self-pity." I felt so misunderstood and hurt that i started avoiding her.

In the meantime, I got close to a different woman in our congregation (friend No. 2). She began supporting me in my depression. For some reason, i got even more attached to her than to my former friend. Before i knew it, i was looking up to her too much, and she was starting to influence me alot. She decided that my depression was caused by my problems with my husband, who had stopped associating with our congregation or coming to Bible talks. She felt that his bad attitude toward spiritual things was affecting me and my attitude and making my depression worse. She started pushing me to leave my h.

By this time, my depression was really bad, and I had been hospitalized once for sui thinking. It was true my h and I were having some problems, but I knew the depression was caused by other things too. My h started counseling and when he got diagnosed bipolar, he got on meds too. Our relationship improved.

Then one day, after being away from the congregation for 1 year, my h decided he wanted to go. During the meeting, he heard one of our congregation leaders say, how much "we care about each other, and help each other out when we're in need." Since he didn't feel that the congregation leaders had helped us, he said in a soft voice, "This is for the birds. I'm leaving." He had never walked out of a meeting before, and I didn't know what to do. At the time, his bipolar wasn't managed well, and i was concerned about where we was going and if he was OK. So after a minute or two, I got up and left also. Unfortunately, rumors started in the congregation that my husband had used swear words, and that we had both walked out of the congregation together in an act of defiance. Friend No. 2 asked me if my husband had used swear words in the congregation, and i told her no. Unknown to me, threee people had come up to her and told her that he did swear. This was was untrue gossip. (My friend wasn't even at that meeting, so all she had to go on was what she heard). Since three people told her she swore, and i said he didn't, she decided i was the one who lied to her, and she was very angry. She also decided that I had colluded with my h and that we had planned the walkout together ahead of time in an act of defiance. She stopped calling me and inviting me over. She started pushing me to leave my h.

Without my being aware of it, friend No. 1 had been meeting together with friend No. 2 to talk about my depression/problems. They eventually teamed up and hit me with a "tough love" approach. They wanted me to leave my h because they believed my welfare was at stake. However, my h and I had started working out our problems and were doing better. I didn't want to leave him anymore.

Friend No. 1 told me that my husband didn't really love me, that i was just his meal ticket (because my job paid most of our bills). Regarding my depression and my h's bipolar, she said, "There's nothing wrong with you two." Friend No. 2 told me I had lied to her and been deceptive, and that both my h and i were turning against God. She accused me of trying to ruin her relationship with him. She said, "If you don't take stand against your husband, you will never hear from me again. But if you do, our relationship will continue as it always has."

I was heartbroken that my friends had misunderstood me so badly. It hurt me that they blamed me for my depression. These had been friends of mine, they had known me for years when i was healthy and doing well. Why didn't they see i was ill, and believe in my goodness and encourage me, rather than criticize and try to reform me? I was devastated that friend No. 2 gave me an ultimatum -- either my relationship with my h or with her. AI really regretted ever having talked to them about my marriage problems. I knew i had caused part of this myself. By this time, the situation had become so screwed up and such a mess, that I didn't know what to do. I left the congregation and never went back.

Both relationships ended. After i left the congregation, friend No. 1 kept emailing me, still trying to shape me up spiritually and correct my behavior. Since i was doing my best already, this made me feel horrible about myself, so i had to tell her not to contact me anymore. Friend No. 2 didn't contact me anymore, just as she said she wouldn't.

For years in therapy, I have grieved the ending of those relationships. Those women had been like mothers to me. I loved them so deeply. It took 7 years before i could talk about what happened without crying. Finally, in the last 2 years, I've finally started being able to let go of these painful attachment/abandonment feelings with my former friends and start moving on.

Well. . .about 1 month ago, I started getting emails from friend No. 1. I don't know how she got my email address. At first, she just sent jokes to a "group" of her friends, which she'd added me to. But a couple of weeks later, she sent an email telling us that she'd been diagnosed with stomach cancer and was going to have to have surgery and chemo. The news hit me like a big lump in my stomach. Feelings of compassion and wanting to help her rose up in me. Even though I'd worked so hard to move on from her, I didn't feel right about not responding to her cancer and not offering help. So i responded back and offered her support.

Her surgery was yesterday, and I called her husband to check on her. She came through it OK but is in intensive care. I want to support her, i still love her, but i don't know how involved to get. I'm stronger now, and hope to relate to her adult to adult. But because of my traumas as a kid and my issues about attachment and separation, I'm worried that I will be tempted to go back into an unhealthy relationship with her. All the strong feelings toward her are starting to welll up in me again. Her emails are full of terms like sending "lot of hugs and love," and calling me her "lil' sister" and "sweet girl." The more she talks affectionately to me, using terms like i listed above, the more i can feel "child parts" of me wanting to rebond with her. We haven't been close for 9 years, since our relationship ended, and it's feeling overwhelming. I'm not sure what to do.

On the one hand, i've worked SOOO hard to start moving on, and on the other hand, i still love her so much.

Please HELP me figure out what to do!

Peaches

[tryingtobeme]

Wow, what a tough situation. Peaches you need to do what is going to be mentaly okay for you. It sounds like this could be a bad situation to be putting yourself in. I understand not wanting to go back to these attachment feelings. I have this too with people in my life. I can tell you that every time I keep my distance it only makes me stronger and I realize that I haven't needed these people in my life to make me happy. In the long wrong, I am left feeling better about myself. Just be careful and think through what will happen if things go wrong again. I'm all about forgivness and wanting to be there to help but when we have attachment, abandonment issues it is a whole other ball game. Just be careful whatever you decide to do. Don't be afraid to tell anyone to stop contacting you. If you need too block them in your e-mail account that way you won't get their e-mails anymore. You do what is going to be best and healthy for you, not anyone else.

[taylor43]

Peaches, i was in a church that did not believe in my mental illness. I stayed there for 7 years that was pure hell for me. I still get e-mails, facebook message saying im only in therapy to get coddeld and stop pitying myself. It hard but i have to break all cords from the people of my old church, grieve and heal. I would caution you to be very careful with this friend who has cancer. (((((((Hugs)))))))

Not sure what to say, peaches. Only you know what will be a healthy balance for you between protecting yourself and supporting this former friend. Just because she wasn't there for you when you were ill doesn't mean that you have to act the same way. You don't want to struggle with guilt later, but at the same time, you have to keep yourself safe. I know that struggle all too well. Do you have a therapist you can discuss this with?

Send a card, but keep your distance. Don't get pulled back into that dynamic again. It's fine to send a get well card or something, but otherwise you are just really doing this out of some sense of guilt or misplaced obligation. She is toxic for your own well-being; don't set yourself up for that kind of abusive "friendship" again, no matter how badly you feel about her being ill.

[rainbow8]

peaches, I understand your conflicts about the situation. You are a kind, sweet, compassionate person, and this woman was your friend. I want to emphasize WAS. As much as you feel for her now, adult to adult, I don't think your child parts are going to "let you" stay in adult mode. It's too tempting to accept the love she offered you years ago. Even though she is now the needy one, it's still one-sided in my opinion. Also, in light of the way she and your other ex-friend treated you, the idea of having either of them in your life again seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I know you've discussed this with your T and she advised you to take the middle ground, I think. If you think you can do that, okay. But you're like me, and we have difficulty finding the middle. You say your "child parts" want to rebond with her. It sounds like you want her to replace your T since she's able to do it without the boundaries you have with your T.

Go with your gut feelings about this. Maybe send a card, call her before you visit. See how it goes. You can be compassionate without getting re-involved.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Go with your gut feelings about this. Maybe send a card, call her before you visit. See how it goes. You can be compassionate without getting re-involved.

Ooh. DON'T make personal visit. Bad idea. Let Hallmark do the talking. A personal visit to a cancer patient can be very intense, Peaches, and I suspect you'd be sucked right back in.

[bluemountains]

Like Chris said, a card and words of encouragement are as much as you should invest. Your two former friends were very judgmental and detrimental to your healing with your depression and your relationship with your husband. Also, not to mean to step on religious toes here, but what kind of church promotes/allows bullying behavior among its members?
I am so glad to hear that you got out of that situation. It sounds like they, the friends and the church, did not want you to act on any of your own thoughts. I am a believer of a higher power, but I don't like others interpreting for me how I should or shouldn't practice my beliefs.
Take Care!
Bluemountains

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Ooh. DON'T make personal visit. Bad idea. Let Hallmark do the talking. A personal visit to a cancer patient can be very intense, Peaches, and I suspect you'd be sucked right back in.

Chris, I meant that peaches should send a card and call. See if that feels like it's enough, and to hold off on the visiting. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my post.

Got it. You meant call her rather than visit, not call her before your visit.

[Sannah]

This woman has already proven that she isn't healthy for you. Would being around her be a healthy choice?

[peaches100]

Hi Everybody,

I sure appreciate all of your responses, advice, and insight. I ended up talking to my t about this. She would not tell me what to do, but said, "You're an empathetic person. I have the feeling that if you don't support your friend, you will feel guilty." She is right. I still care about this person, and offering support feels like the only right thing to do. Still, I don't want to set myself up to be hurt again. I can't allow that. It hurt waaaaaay too much!

My t and I talked alot about how I would approach the relationship this time. I decided that regardless of how much child parts might long to reattach to C., I was only going to deal with her from my adult frame of mind. I also decided that i would support her in a limited way, keeping in touch to check on her and encourage her, but not make efforts to get emotionally close with her like we used to be.

I'm happy to report that, so far, things are going well so far. She did not need me to be there for the surgery, so I've just been in touch with her several times by phone. The surgery went fine and she is recovering at home. Considering the scariness of cancer, she sounds like she is doing well. She is a "tough bird!" I told her when she feels well enough for a short visit, i would stop by for a few minutes.

Since making my decision about what kind of relationship to have with C., I have not felt any urges from my child parts to rebond with her as a mother figure. I feel really good about it and hope it continues. It seems like maybe i am starting to heal after all!

[Katy-Did]

Wow!! What a great thread. Thank you "Peaches100" for sharing your situation w/PC. The suggestions, encouragement and cautionary advice you received was so helpful. I appreciate your follow-up post after visiting with your T. I hope to apply many facets of this thread to my own life.

Thank you...

[peaches100]

Hi everybody,

I wanted to give you an update. C. has been home from the hospital for about 2 weeks now and is recovering. I decided to stop by her house on the way home Monday for a few minutes to say hello and see how she is doing. I told her I'd stay for about 10 minutes, but she wanted me to stay a little longer, so I stayed for 25 minutes.

I did really good! We talked alot about her dog and also about her health and postsurgery treatment. The focus was mainly on her, although I did tell her about my h's many health problems. I did not talk about myself at all, no mention of my depression, therapy, or anything I struggle with. Since i wasn't making myself vulnerable, I didn't feel the child parts of myself coming into the picture with her.

Just as i was leaving, she asked me, "So, how are YOU doing? How is your health?" I paused for a second, and then she made a little joke, and I joked back about "doing fine for my old age" (I told her I'll soon be 50).

I feel good about how i did. I think maybe I've reached a point where I've been able to grieve and let go of the former relationship I had with her, and how it ended -- and now i can move forward from today on just being an occasional and encouraging aquaintance. I no longer long for her to love me deeply like a parent.

I'm sure part of my ability to let go of C. is because i'm so attached to my t, so my attachment problems are not gone. In fact, i know it is still very deep rooted. But at least I've learned that such deep unmet childhood needs cannot be filled in friendships. It requires a power difference which, over time, ends up being detrimental/damaging to the one with the unmet needs. Most people don't know how to deal with somebody who has such traumatic experiences from the past, and whose scars from that spill over into relationships. They may want to help, but often go about it in the wrong way, and it often ends very badly.

So yeah, i think i've learned my lesson about that.

[purple_fins]

I feel good about how i did. I think maybe I've reached a point where I've been able to grieve and let go of the former relationship I had with her, and how it ended -- and now i can move forward from today on just being an occasional and encouraging aquaintance. I no longer long for her to love me deeply like a parent.

Oh that is wonderful-- good for you!
Sounds like you have put her in more of a "friend" place, than a mother place, which is only fair for BOTH of you.

I've learned that such deep unmet childhood needs cannot be filled in friendships. It requires a power difference which, over time, ends up being detrimental/damaging to the one with the unmet needs.

and may also damage, in different ways, the one that was expected to do all the meeting of the other's needs -- don't you think?

Most people don't know how to deal with somebody who has such traumatic experiences from the past, and whose scars from that spill over into relationships. They may want to help, but often go about it in the wrong way, and it often ends very badly.

Yea, it's quite surprising how many have similar "traumas" but go about life so differently. I imagine that some of the women you have known have come from extremely traumatic childhoods... just that, being we are all so different and thus are affected in thousands of different ways-- you'd never know some of them had such horrific beginnings. Their way of helping-- or what worked for them-- is sometimes NOT what someone else needs in order to heal. Like, I experienced as a child from parents-- "toughen up" and "just don't talk about it" and "It's not a big deal".... so when someone says similar to me it puts me in a downward tailspin instead of helping me

it's good you are learning and getting past some of your upsets.
I believe once we are adults the only one that can be an affective parent to us is ourself. for we know just what we need inside-- give that to the self. One can be their own very BEST parent!



fins