[CantExplain]

Hi guys!

We reached an agreement on what happened last week.

She meant, "You're not accepting responsibility for this", and I heard "You never accept any responsibility for anything." What was actually said can never be proved.

And it worked the other way too. She thought my comments were much more general than I intended. (Perhaps she assumes this because I muster so much evidence behind my accusations.)

She also damns me with faint praise, saying I "sometimes" do the right thing when I want to hear that I "generally" or "nearly always" do the right thing.

We reach this point again and again, where each of us thinks the other is out to destroy them. On two or three previous occasions, I have walked away at that point and it became an open rupture.

I am of course re-enacting my fights with my mother. She says (and I'm sure she's right) the trigger to this latest spat is that we went through my baby album together and she said that my mother worshipped me. "You were her Prince, if not her King."

But if that is true, then everything I remember is a lie. If I had no reason to hate my mother, how do you account for the fact that I did?

Anyway, I ended up telling T, "I still love you." She said, "I still love you, too." I asked for a hug and got one.

Seeing her again on Thursday.

Sounds like you're slogging through the hard work of therapy. I'm glad that you and T came to an agreement!

I think there ARE reasons that you hate your mother, and they are yet to be discovered. By all accounts, my mother was perfect. She loved me - I know that, and she was a very intelligent woman who was into psychology. I have no doubt that she tried her best to be a perfect mother to me.

However ... she was damaged by her upbringing and the circumstances of her life. I've been discovering that she unconsciously dumped her burdens on me, the first-born. It's hard to blame her, because she loved me a lot, but apparently her issues caused her to do some serious psychological damage to me. I know if she was alive and knew this, she would be horrified. But the truth is, through circumstances, she damaged me severely. And because she loved me, it caused me tremendous guilt because in a way I hated her for what she did to me. But ... how do you hate someone who loved you so much ?????

Oh hell, what a mess!!! The hurt, the screwed-up-ness, the guillt, no wonder it's taken me years to sort through all this.

I don't know your story, CE, but we don't just come up with these emotions out of nowhere, especially as children. There are reasons why you feel the way you do, and I think you'll find them.

I guess it's the journey, as they say??? IDK. But glad you & T are still together.

[Miswimmy1]

glad that it all worked out with your t. therapy is hard and there is ups and downs. so great that you and t got through this one together ok

[CantExplain]

I think I've finally heard something T has tried to tell me for nearly ten years. Here's the pattern:

1. T makes an observation.
2. I receive it as criticism.
3. I generalise it into an accusation.
4. I resist the implication that I am a bad person.
5. I gather evidence that I am not a bad person.
6. I thereby refute the accusation.
7. This proves that T is wrong.
8. This discredits the observation.

Net result: A damaged relationship and the observation is lost.

[mixedup_emotions]

That's awesome that you were able to find some meaning through the unpleasantness!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I think I've finally heard something T has tried to tell me for nearly ten years. Here's the pattern:

1. T makes an observation.
2. I receive it as criticism.
3. I generalise it into an accusation.
4. I resist the implication that I am a bad person.
5. I gather evidence that I am not a bad person.
6. I thereby refute the accusation.
7. This proves that T is wrong.
8. This discredits the observation.

Net result: A damaged relationship and the observation is lost.

Ah, but you see how insidious this is! The pattern protects itself.

This is a shameful pattern, so whenever T tries to point it out, she makes me a bad person and triggers a full-scale self-justifying response.

[mixedup_emotions]

But you know that T is not the one making you a bad person. You are. So, next time T makes an observation, be mindful of your feelings and explore how you're feeling and reacting...and experiment on new ways of handling it....rather than allowing it get to a full-blown rupture.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

But you know that T is not the one making you a bad person. You are. So, next time T makes an observation, be mindful of your feelings and explore how you're feeling and reacting...and experiment on new ways of handling it....rather than allowing it get to a full-blown rupture.

There's that accusation again. You're pushing me back into the cycle.

[CantExplain]

Aha! It appears I have some kind of persecution complex. And by "some kind", I mean a big one.

This is my own diagnosis, but who would diagnose themselves with a persecution complex if they didn't have one?

I feel so much more comfortable with labels. My T doesn't like labels, but I do.

PS:

Incidentally, it really is true that I almost never get persecution feelings outside therapy. Maybe my therapist really is persecuting me.

PPS:

An element of persecution complex is a normal part of depression. Perhaps that is why mine remained undiagnosed for so long: it was masked by the depression. But this month I am not depressed but I do feel persecuted.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Ah, but you see how insidious this is! The pattern protects itself.

This is a shameful pattern, so whenever T tries to point it out, she makes me a bad person and triggers a full-scale self-justifying response.

I don't see it as "shameful" at all - it's really very logical. You just need to find where the logic fails. Otherwise it makes complete sense.

And I see that as being where T makes an observation and you perceive it as criticism. This is the error and where you need to focus. It's simply an erroneous pattern of thinking, not bad or shameful. I know I've got gobs of these but I'm finding it really hard to see them, and I can't fix them until I can list them out like you did. Kudos for figuring it out!

[CantExplain]

My persecution complex says:
It must be shameful or she wouldn't bother to point it out. I mean, she didn't congratulate me on it.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

My persecution complex says:
It must be shameful or she wouldn't bother to point it out. I mean, she didn't congratulate me on it.

I call black and white thinking, CE! So it either deserves congratulations or it's shameful? These are the ends of the spectrum, what about all the part inbetween? There is such a thing as neutral, ya know

It makes sense that if you like labels that you want things to be clearly identifiable one way ---- or the other. It's easy to tell white from black, but distinguishing shades of grey isn't so easy. Does this make sense when applied to the way you see things, that they have to be clearly one way or the other? There IS such a thing as a simple observation that's neutral, a simple statement of fact. Not an accusation.

[CantExplain]

((Bunny))

I understand that you are trying to help me, and I don't want to scare you away.
But I'm feeling pretty paranoid right now and I cannot see things from your point of view.

Originally Posted by TheBunnyWithin

I call black and white thinking, CE! So it either deserves congratulations or it's shameful? These are the ends of the spectrum, what about all the part inbetween? There is such a thing as neutral, ya know

No, I don't know that.

Black-and-white thinking is natural consequence of paranoia and being triggered.

Originally Posted by TheBunnyWithin

There IS such a thing as a simple observation that's neutral, a simple statement of fact.

I don't agree.

[ECHOES]

I agree with observing without judging. It is the judging that is used to persecute.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

((Bunny))

I understand that you are trying to help me, and I don't want to scare you away.
But I'm feeling pretty paranoid right now and I cannot see things from your point of view.


No, I don't know that.

Black-and-white thinking is natural consequence of paranoia and being triggered.


I don't agree.

That's OK, I'm not scared away. I understand now that you're in the throes of paranoia. I'm in the middle of a major rupture with my T, and I cannot see the situation clearly AT ALL, no matter how much I try. I'm just hoping it's going to wear off after a while and the fog will lift.

Take care. (((((((((((((((CE))))))))))))))

[CantExplain]

I guess I have to face facts.

In spite of my progress (no longer angry, no longer depressed), I am still in some ways a very sick man.

(((CE)))

[unaluna]

hey. the fly in your logic is, just cuz you were you're mother's prince, doesn't meant she treated YOU right for YOU. maybe she neglected to see the way you were mother's princess - perhaps you were meant to be the next Sassoon or Valentino, and that was quashed - we ended up computer geeks instead, all slightly thwarted. so you coped. but yes, her lack of love was missed. now the question is, do you carry forth that lack of love like a legacy to be passed on? or do you accept it as it the price you pay for being human, your imperfection? The people connected to you will let you know if it is a sometimes or most of the time thing. If it is sometimes, as your T is telling you, well, this is not a competition between you as to who is the better person. That is why they (t's) remain unknown to us. But - they did not come to us for help! Eh, not that that means anything... I am saying this cuz I needed T this weekend and he was there - at the end of the phone for me - with what I needed and more. But I also knew the difference between need and want, between fantasy and reality, thanks to PC.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

She says (and I'm sure she's right) the trigger to this latest spat is that we went through my baby album together and she said that my mother worshipped me. "You were her Prince, if not her King."

But if that is true, then everything I remember is a lie. If I had no reason to hate my mother, how do you account for the fact that I did?

To be the apple of ones eye, is a bunch of pressure for a child. Did she have expectations for you? Where you truly her Prince or was that just for show. Just because the outside of the house is nice and the yard is manicured, doesn't mean that the inside is livable.

glad you were able to exchange "love you's with T", I too am learning you can love someone and not agree with them all the time. (black and white thinking thing)

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by hankster

hey. the fly in your logic is, just cuz you were you're mother's prince, doesn't meant she treated YOU right for YOU.

My T said exactly that. And that is really scary.

If T is right, then loving your children and wanting to do your best for them is not enough. Which means I might be passing on my mental illness to my daughter in spite of my best efforts.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I guess I have to face facts.

In spite of my progress (no longer angry, no longer depressed), I am still in some ways a very sick man.

Not in the slightest. You are human who is sensitive to what is perceived as criticism. Not sick at all. Nobody likes it CE. I don't care what they say.

Nobody likes criticism.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Not in the slightest. You are human who is sensitive to what is perceived as criticism. Not sick at all. Nobody likes it CE. I don't care what they say.

Nobody likes criticism.

That's true. But not everyone reacts as strongly as I do.

Thank you for your support.