[Fixated]

They don't care if they're a jerk to you/pushy. They don't care if you hate them. They do whatever they have to do to get you to the finish line.

[SoupDragon]

Maybe we have a set learned picture in our heads of what "caring" looks like? Yes they want to get us to the finish line, but is that in itself caring, wanting us to be independent of them?

But I wonder what your T has done to be a jerk / pushy? That doesn't sound so caring.

[Fixated]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Maybe we have a set learned picture in our heads of what "caring" looks like? Yes they want to get us to the finish line, but is that in itself caring, wanting us to be independent of them?

But I wonder what your T has done to be a jerk / pushy? That doesn't sound so caring.

In our session the other day, she brought up a topic that I had a very hard time understanding/discussing. I was going into avoid and get angry mode. She just challenged me head on about my avoidance. I was genuinely having a hard time thinking/talking about this topic, but she didn't go soft. She went hard and "pushed" me through to the finish line (her analogy). I suggested that there she could have reacted differently and made things easier for me to process, but she just wants me to get to the finish line. That sort of thing.

It sounds caring to me, but I like my T to be straight-forward and push me past my defenses that tend to keep me stuck. A "soft" approach tends to get me nowhere fast. Different people need different approaches though. Perhaps your T felt that how she has been working with you hasn't been, well . . . working, to move you forward.

The question is . . . did you get past the avoidance and work on that difficult topic this time? If so, might be that her approach did work after all. Sometimes making forward movement is really, really uncomfortable and difficult, but if we can push past that discomfort, the end result can be a positive pay-off.

[stopdog]

I am not certain I would characterize it as caring, but certainly it is what many of them see their job as being.

[autotelica]

They don't care if they're a jerk to you/pushy

But these things are subjective, right? They probably don't think they are being a jerk or being pushy, but rather firm and assertive. And they perceive that "firm and assertive" is what is needed, rather than "soft and gentle". Maybe they have tried soft and gentle and it hasn't worked?

They don't care if you hate them. They do whatever they have to do to get you to the finish line.

I imagine that a therapist can't always worry how a patient feels about them or they wouldn't be able to do their job. Their job isn't to please the patient and be their BFF.

Finish line. I guess it would depend on what that finish line is. If they want you to finish an exercise, then it seems to me that having a non-cooperative patient defeats the purpose. If it's to do something more urgent, like stop you from hurting yourself, then that's different.

[Wren_]

I'm not sure; not enough to go on really ... because it's just one snippet of your experience together. From just what you said it sounds uncaring, but overall like Chris said the straight forward pushing approach works well with some people, and it's also a part of some therapists styles. The whole issue of what is caring is so complicated definitely something the two of you should talk about more together

Sometimes I think my T is uncaring for NOT pushing

My T is really very direct. He admits that he has trouble pulling back sometimes and that on occasion he loses clients because of it. He has responded to things I've said before with, "Bull s hit." Several times he's told me that I know that something I've said is not true. I'm all like, 'but it feeeeeeels true.' But it truly helps me to have this quick, direct reality check that sometimes what I feel is not true and is, in fact, bull s hit based on the abuse and neglect from my parents. I feel like my T legitimately cares about me and doesn't want to waste a bunch of time allowing me to continue suffering while I wallow around trying to come to the correct conclusion on my own.

My H's T is super soft and very non-direct. I would HATE that and feel a bit lost and without direction.

[adel34]

Hi Fixated,
I'd find another t, if possible! Trust me, not all ts are like that, and you deserve a truly caring one!
Though sadly, in this time of managed care many ts are being forced to try and "get people to the finish line" as quickly as possible. Though there are ways around this. I'd rather cycle through a bunch of interns thanhave one t for only say six sessions.
Thinking of you.

[stopdog]

I do not do well with directive, pushy therapists. I do want the therapist to know how therapy is supposed to work and explain it to me, and they can ask questions, but they don't get to push me or call what I say BS or anything like that. I would want to kill them - don't set me up for me to tell you how I feel and call it BS (I am not criticizing anyone's therapist or choice - this is just my own thing). I am getting all worked up just thinking about it. It is my choice, my life, and not theirs. I need MKAC's husband's therapist.

[Chopin99]

I cannot say that your T is not caring; I do understand her rationale. However, I can also understand why you'd feel like your T was pushing too hard.

I need a T who is balanced. I'm lucky in that my T will push at times, but if I tell her to stop, she will back off.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Fixated

They don't care if they're a jerk to you/pushy. They don't care if you hate them. They do whatever they have to do to get you to the finish line.

That describes my T pretty well.

Originally Posted by tigergirl

Sometimes I think my T is uncaring for NOT pushing

That's how I felt with exT. I asked her to push more because I'm a world-class avoider, and she occasionally tried to but mostly she was just happy to listen to my skirting around subjects. I did not feel she cared, though I suspect that she maybe did. With current T I know he doesn't care for real, but it feels as if he does, sometimes. I guess that in the moment, at the time when I'm in his office, he does - and I really think that's the only thing we can expect from a T. Some of us get more, because the T grows to care about the client, but it's not what we pay for. (These are my thoughts based on my experiences, and I could be completely wrong.) And to address the original question... I think pushing is caring, yes. But it has to be done in a way that works for that client.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do not do well with directive, pushy therapists. I do want the therapist to know how therapy is supposed to work and explain it to me, and they can ask questions, but they don't get to push me or call what I say BS or anything like that. I would want to kill them - don't set me up for me to tell you how I feel and call it BS

stopdog, I think you are not the kind of person who would prevaricate and tell your therapist actual BS to avoid the issue - you are too sensible for that. Me, I'm not that sensible. I said to my T the day before yesterday that I should not have told him the things I just did tell him, because I've been doing fine for 35 years not talking about them, to which he responded with unusual vehemence "No you haven't."
But if I were to tell him how I was actually feeling and get the response "No, that's not what you feel", I would not appreciate it. Come to think of it, that's also something exT did - she told me I looked like I was feeling really good, when I'd just told her that I was going through a bad time. And yeah, I stopped seeing her shortly after that. But that's different.

stopdog, my husband saw my therapist once for a joint session and HATED him. Won't admit he hates him, but he does. My issue is different than your issue and I know that what works for me might not work for others. I hate myself. A lot of the time. When I started therapy, I felt worthless and like everyone in my life would be better off if I left. I feel like things are my fault even when objectively speaking, I can kind of see why they are not. So I NEED a reality check sometimes of someone else saying, gently and in a caring tone, 'ah BS, MKAC. You know that isn't true. You know somewhere deep inside it isn't your fault.' 'Oh BS, MKAC, do you really think that your friends wish you were gone?' Something like that. Those are the extreme examples, but it's hard to say what I mean sometimes. I think sometimes my default is to assume things are my fault and go on. It was a way of evading having to really look at my marriage or some of my relationships or even myself. Just assume I am a horrible person, all my fault and try to go on.

So, if THAT is the kind of pushing and stopping someone from evading that the OP was talking about, then yeah, that could represent caring.

[unaluna]

I know this is a little off topic here but, mkac, it seems like the only person that who was really punished the night your dog got lost was you? the dog was okay, and the way you described putting his tags on later, felt like he understood you were repairing a rupture and he was glad of it.

so i'm glad CE responded the way he did here, cuz we kind of downplayed how fixared's reaction was like his - attack with anger, then pout when the T returns that anger. I don't understand this, btw.

as for the dog, hey, si wasn't on the list! wtf?

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by hankster

so i'm glad CE responded the way he did here, cuz we kind of downplayed how fixared's reaction was like his - attack with anger, then pout when the T returns that anger. I don't understand this, btw.

Therapists do stuff just to piss off clients and substitute their judgment and make decisions about what should happen or be done to client. They are trained to only react if therapeutically useful and they refuse to explain how what they do is therapeutically useful. So the question becomes, is their response of anger therapeutically useful to the client or to the therapist?