I fell apart in T's arms

I agree, too. Please don't feel bad or feel like you've stolen something from her, especially when she willingly loved on you when you needed it.

This image may help you accept your therapist's kindness: I'm a giver and make things for people, just because. The biggest heartbreak is when I give someone something that I put my heart into and put a lot of thought into how to make it just right for them only to hear, "Aw, you shouldn't have done that."

It took me saying, "Don't steal my blessing.", once to them to get them to stop prefacing my gifts to them in that way. In other words, it blesses me tremendously to give of myself to someone else, especially when it's something that I'm willing to do and not obligated to do and that I've spent a considerable amount of time doing. When someone gives of themselves to you and you apologize or feel guilty for taking it, it robs that person of the blessing they want to be to you.

I am the queen of "I'm sorry", so I understand how you feel, because I apologize way too much for things I shouldn't be sorry about. I'm learning, but it feels oh so good to simply say, "Thank you!" when someone says something nice to me or does anything positive for me instead of trying to find a way to discredit their positive words.

Take in her care and let it be healing to you, if you feel like it helps. Don't let other people's hang-ups get in the way of you accepting what your therapist does for you, either. You are the only one who knows your relationship, and I think it's unfair for anyone to judge your relationship as abusive or unethical.

My therapist is a big hugger. When she hugs me she lingers for a while, and I love it. She's kissed me on the cheek before and she tells me she loves me often. By the way, I was sexually abused my whole childhood by 100s of men, including by my mom, and I don't in any way feel abused by my therapist nor do I feel like she's being unethical in any way. She has brought lots of healing to my life through how she not only counsels me, but also through her hugs.

I hope this helps you a little bit.

I think you have a few assumptions and expectations inside these statements that may be useful to look at. The first one is that I think it's tough to know what other people are thinking, that's just an assumption, with the emphasis on the first three letters. The second assumption is that you should be able to hold her hand anytime you want to-- I'm interpreting "only occasionally when I ask her" as she only agrees some of the time. If you mean that she will only hold your hand if you ask her, then I guess I'd say that seems right to me, that you ask for what you need and not expect her to provide it otherwise. And if she is letting go too early for you, then you need to ask for more time.

I don't see where it is being taken away from you. Change doesn't mean that you are losing something. It could mean that you are gaining something, like the ability to feel safe in therapy even when your hand is not being held. In general, the idea that your T has changed her thinking as opposed to respond to what she thinks are cues from you is something to be skeptical about, as is any perspective that suggests that change is somehow bad and about rejection.

This would be way too much pressure for me. Hence therapists are paid.

((((((TC)))))))))

This thread, the way you wrote about your experience with T and reply to other posts about touch in therapy is amazing. I am soooo happy for you and it´s really touching to read after having followed your threads for a while now.Lots of ´s from me too.

this whole thing just freaks me out. It is sooooo far out of the realm of any therapy I have been exposed to.

I think if my therapist and I did this I would totally lose it.

I mean if it works for you, great. I would caution against getting your touch needs met at therapy though. That's what humans are for - well, other humans. After the t-relationship is solid, that's where you are heading - to them.

The whole purpose of getting touch from the therapist is to help us feel safe and secure in that relationship, so that we can solidify our inner core - of self. We will then know with out a doubt that we have value and worth. And then, and only then can we truly take in and receive what others have to offer us.

It is so healing for me to be held by my therapist to cry or to to be comforted. At the moment their is know one else in my life, and she does that as a part of her job. It works for me, and a lot of others.

Again, and this is only for my own edification, do you think that because you are getting that need met at therapy that it is preventing you from getting it elsewhere?

I guess though it could be like a therapeutic massage.

I don't know. It's just freaky to me.

There was a time during my many years in therapy when I completely believed this to be true. I craved touch from my current therapist and thought I could never feel safe, secure, or worthy without it, because I knew how wonderful and caring it had felt to me in the past when I had therapists who met those needs. But I learned much more about myself by working through the feelings of deprivation with him instead of having those needs gratified by him. I discovered that I could indeed feel very safe, secure and worthy in our relationship without touch. And, in fact, I eventually felt and still feel very grateful to him for not meeting that need, because the goal is to develop satisfying and healthy relationships in real life where those needs will be met. I have those relationships now -- I have some great friends and I am loved by a wonderful man who has seen his own share of struggles in life. Having those needs met by my therapist would have felt wonderful at the time, but it would not have been healing. The actual healing has come from the hard work I have done to understand myself and take risks in real life relationships with other people.

This is how I feel as well. I, too, am grateful that my therapist would never have done this. It feels to be like an end run around the real goal. Taking risks and living outside of therapy. That's where the really really good stuff is.

Yeah, I loved my therapist - a lot, but there were limits. The life outside of that room is limitless.

I think that might just be me though.

I could have written that post only a year and a half ago. It would have freaked me out too. Big time

Then I met a T who one day gave me a hug. I had revealed something that I was so so so ashamed of. I was like a child expecting to be punished. Serioulsly. Then she look me in the eyes..and asked.." Can I give you a hug" For whatever reason I said yes. It was the turning point. It was not only the physical part. It was total acceptence and validation. She saw my pain. Since then I got hugged after every session no matter what. After that I stopped talking bad about myself ( all the time ) and my healing began. I have a great network of people IRL, but did not see myself at that time as worthy of anything.
Point is because I was given those hugs in therapy, I can now reach out to the onces I love IRL. I can say for the first time that I love them,give them a hug and ask for one. Why? Because my T taught me that even though I make mistakes, hate myself and so on I am worthy to give and recieve love. I am not a touchy feeling type but for me that was true healing in many ways. If I had not experienced it I would still have my ever so "blunt" opinion about it.
There are examples in here having affairs, people getting a little too obsessed and focuse more on handholding than healing. I think when used wisely it´s a great "therapy tool". For me I learned to apply it outside therapy and although I sometimes miss my former T, I do perfectly fine without her hugs.
Edited just to ad: In the whole debate about needing to get our needs met outside and not in T. There truly are people in here who don´t have anyone. So to have a hug or save touch from a T IMO is okey until IRL relations are hopefully etablised.

Hi TC,
The experience you had with your t was beautiful and so healing! My former t used touch a lot, (don't know about new t as we only had our first session last week) and it made me feel so close to her in the relationship.
I hope this keeps up and continues to help you.

I get how touching can be a part of the healing process. Or even in the supportive process. I get supportive therapy from my therapist, and she hugs me regularly so I can "practice" (she actually tells me when my hugs are "good", as opposed to stiff and awkward). It's kind of like how doing yoga at the wall provides proprioceptive feedback so you can do the poses better. Having touch in therapy can provide feedback. It can also desensitize one from "touch" fear and pull down emotional barriers.

But I don't think it's an essential thing about therapy overall, though. 'Cuz if one makes it out to be essential, then IMHO it's like saying therapy is some kind of place where we go to find a surrogate friend or parent...where we expect them to fulfill our emotional needs. Therapists shouldn't be fulfilling our needs, right? They should be helping us fulfill them on our own. So I can kind of see what ellimay is saying. Touch (and other kinds of intimacy, really) have their place in therapy. But I don't think it's the most important thing. I could see how it could be really iatrogenic for some people if they get too focused on it.

I think it is not one or the other. I think touch has a place in talk therapy and that they complement each other to offer a more uniform treatment than one or the other on its own.

I can't get these hugs from other people in my real life... I instinctively back away when anyone gets too close into my personal space, and I don't think my body language invites anyone to even try to touch me. My T took three or four months before she even tried to touch me, and even then it was just my foot - pretty much the least threatening place possible on my body.

When I am in distress now, she always starts at the least threatening point (my foot) and works her way up from there (my head) depending on how I respond to it, always telling me to let her know if I don't like it or if I want her to stop, that its okay.

I don't always let her touch my feet. I didn't let her this last time. I just sat silently and cried so she massaged my head instead. I don't even know where I got the courage to ask for a hug after session, but I did- twice. And it was perfect and beautiful and exactly what I needed from her. It took a lot for me to be able to verbalize that need to her and even more to be able to accept it.

After the very first hug a few weeks ago, I e-mailed and asked if I could have another hug sometime. In response, last week after session, she opened her arms to me and said "come on" and I stopped dead in front of her, narrowed my eyes and asked "why?" She just said "come on" again, and I set my crutches down and held on to her for a few moments, trying to remember what it felt like to be held like that.

Even when I ask for a hug, I am very suspect in her motives- just because I asked doesn't mean she has to give it to me; doesn't she know by now how bad I am, how undeserving? I keep trying to show her, but she pretends to forget the times I said mean things or threw things at her, and she keeps giving me her caring.

Working through powerful negative core beliefs that I am unloveable and unworthy are not things I could do irl with anyone. I can barely do them with T.

I am grateful she is teaching me how to allow touch but also how to ask for it when I need it.

It does sound like you really need touch, TC, and I'm glad you have found it.

I guess I'm wondering more about myself than anything. I like that my therapist hugs me. I don't have anyone else in my life to hug, and her hugs remind me that I'm not a disembodied entity just observing the world from behind a curtain. But if I had to move on to another therapist and she did not hug me, would I hold that against her? Even if she was wonderful in all kinds of other ways?

My therapist also tells me that she loves me. If I got a new therapist and she didn't do this, would I assume I was unloveable? Would I assume that this therapist wasn't good for me? What if she was able to show me her lovingness in other ways. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. There are lots of ways that a therapist can help you feel loveable. By fixating on one approach and defining it as "essential", you may deny other possibilities that could also work too.

But if you've found an approach that works, by all means run with it!

Okay, stopdog, we get it. You are opposed to everything. I think if you won a billion dollars you'd find a way to make it negative.

No not at all, but because I did not get it when I was an infant, I only have a critical voice inside. Before therapy I did not do well with touch or take in positive messages from others - poor attachment. The plan with my therapist is once I have fully attached to her, replicated as much as possible to a mother infant relationship, that I will be able to feel safe and secure enough to take this to other relationships, whether it's a significant other or deep friendships. My therapist does make her self available as much as possible to me. Not every client in therapy needs this type of therapy. Their beginning attachment may not have been as damaged or non existent as mine and others.

I am raising a securely attached teenager. I was able to give to him what I did not get. We had a rupture for ~ 2 1/2 years. Tried two child ph.d 's that were a disaster. 9 months in family therapy has repaired our relationship. My therapist will not treat a child independently of treating the family. I'm a single mom, and she saw that I was struggling in my own life and offered individual therapy three months later.

I have grown leaps and bounds, and because of this I am now able to be there for my child again and give him the safety and security that he deserves by birth right.

TC and many others are struggling to get what we needed, and if it has to be provided by a professional care giver, so be it. We're growing up - as adults.

Also, until now I have only been able to be massaged once, and it was freaky for me.

I want the same satisfying and healthy relationships that you have, and to take risk in real life relationships with other people. But, at the moment, whenever I take risks and they don't workout I fall apart. You got touch from other therapists. Did it damage you, that you current therapist had to do repair? Or did it help you to work with this therapist, and finish the work you started with others? Also, you have a partner. My therapist does not do touch with couples, except to show them how to touch their partner if they are lacking that skill. ( I think this was earthmamma's experience). She will also hold older children to demonstrate to the parents how to hold their kids. Some parents cannot stand to touch their children!

I encourage you, and others to read: Becoming Attached by Richard Karen. This is a condensed version of John Bowlby's work.

I'm healing! And, I finally want to live life.

And it looks like TC is starting to heal too!

In stopdog's defense I think she's only actually opposed to the touchy-feely, attachmenty, therapeutic-relationshippy stuff...

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I've found hugs in therapy to be healing, and importantly for me, I think, is that I feel like the physical closeness of a caring hug allows me to better emotionally trust, engage with my T on an emotional level... I've been very emotionally distant and always kept people at arms length... I feel like my T is helping me learn how to have a connected relationship, if that makes any sense...

I was not being negative or oppositional. I was simply pointing out that it can feel burdensome to be the object of or recipient of what someone considers their blessing. And that paying therapists keeps a more level playing field.

In terms of touch, although I do not want it from a therapist, I don't think it is wrong to do in therapy. I think if the therapist lets time run over, it is the therapist's choice and a client can believe therapists can take care of their time and money situation without the client worrying about it. I consider both the level playing field with a therapist and the idea they can take care of themselves to be positive.

As for winning an astronomical amount of money - it often does ruin lives (many lottery winners end up wishing it had never happened) and can be quite stressful. I don't particularly think about money that much - so although I do not think it would ruin my life, it is not a particular wish of mine to win a billion dollars. My own particular wish is that my pets not die until I do and remain young adult animals with none of the ravages of time befalling them (but not puppies because puppies are a lot of work; and no creepy portraits in the attic either).

I didn't want to say anything until stopdog did, but yeah. I mean, I like giving my therapist gifts (and I like receiving them too), but if she told me to stop giving her stuff, I would hope I would take it well and not think she's "stealing my blessing". I'm certainly free to see it as a blessing, but she's also free--as a human being with her own feelings and desires--to see it differently.

Likewise, if someone gives me something that makes me feel uncomfortable but their action is clearly well-intentioned, I will tell them that I appreciate it. But I will also try--as diplomatically as I can--to let them know that it's a little overboard so that I don't have to be made to feel weird again in the future. Giving isn't just about the giver or the giftee, right?

For some people, therapy is a place for the exchanging of blessings and other sorts of wonderous things. I have discovered my own generosity in therapy, and I would not trade that experience for anything.

But for others, it's business. Gifts and "extras" aren't a part of the deal.

I think a therapist probably knows what kind of client she is dealing with at the first session.

Do you guys even take the time to understand what people write instead of getting defensive? What I shared is how it related to me and not how it should be for everyone else. I was simply saying if someone does something for you don't go out of your way to make it a bad thing. Geez, sometimes I think people here want to complicate things way more than they have to, and I don't know the reason for that. Don't nit pick everything. Look at the general message in what someone is saying. Good lord, sometimes I hate coming here.

Peridot28 - I think all I was doing was talking about how it relates to me too. I don't find it complicated. I was not trying to do anything to you except explain. And since you connected me with negative and oppositional, I thought an explanation called for.

As for the original post - touch can be useful it seems to those who find it healing.

I wasn't being defensive (as you seem to be in great measure). I was just responding to what you and stopdog wrote. And to be honest, what you said registered negative emotions in me because I have had people get upset when I have politely declined their over-the-top gifts (like jewelry from people I barely know or compliments that are inappropriate). A gift isn't just about the giver's feelings. The giftee should be able to express themselves without being accused of "stealing". That's a pretty emotionally loaded turn of phrase--"don't steal my blessing". Who would want to hear that when they are just maintaining their personal boundaries?

I am not saying that you have ever done anything wrong. But the whole concept seems to imply that as long as the giver views their gift as a "blessing", the giftee should just go along with it so as not to offend. Maybe that's the cultural expectation, but I don't like it. It is only my opinion, though.

Sorry that you aren't receptive to discussion about it. I didn't mean to inflame.

OMG, you are so right. You've seemed to be able to tell me exactly how I'm feeling and everything. DO NOT assume anything about me. I'm not defensive "in great measure", and I'm very receptive to discussion about anything, but it gets a little old when I see people be so negative, post after post after post after post, even when someone posts something wonderful. Who wants to listen to that all day? Most times, things are just as they are, no secret undertones, no layers of difficulty, no ulterior motives.

...and lets return this thread back to TCs topic. Sorry TC, for getting off subject.

Having those kinds of needs met by previous therapists did not help me in my work with my current therapist. And yes, in some ways those hugs did more harm than good because hugs from other people never felt as good as the ones from my therapist, so no one else quite measured up. It also kept me from learning how to feel close to people in other ways because I became dependent upon touch in order to feel close. It took a long time for me to realize that I did not need to be hugged or touched in order to feel close to someone, and an even longer time to realize that my sense of self-worth was not dependent upon whether or not another person wanted to hug me.
Yes, I do have a partner now but we have only been together about 8 months, so I had no one to meet those needs for many years prior to this relationship.