[Wren_]

i wondered if sometimes what gets labelled as transference is sometimes about someone unknowingly setting themselves up for a fall? wanting something that can't be had? by setting sights on the unattainable then the pattern of being hurt continues - a self fulfilling prophecy?

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

i wondered if sometimes what gets labelled as transference is sometimes about someone unknowingly setting themselves up for a fall? wanting something that can't be had? by setting sights on the unattainable then the pattern of being hurt continues - a self fulfilling prophecy?

These sound like transference to me:
**Wanting something that can't be had
**Setting sights on the unattainable (a distance parent, a parent not enmeshed)
**a pattern of being hurt continues

I'm not a fan of the self-fulfilling prophecy hypothesis. I think the human body/psyche reenacts scenarios from the past (transference, etc.) in order to attain a better outcome (not the same outcome) so a new schema can replace the old. This doesn't mean that someone has to come along and fill the parent shoes, but the outcome has to be better than the old outcome, but will never be as good as what could have been. I think this allows a person to heal, and to grieve past losses so he/she can be healthy. This is what happens, imo, in therapy. The therapeutical relationship evokes frequent reenactments, some causing ruptures, but hopefully, each time the reenactments are a little different, better, and in time a new schema is built. It does take two to make this work, and it is a perilous journey for both involved, sometimes it doesn't end well. But I don't think the psyche aims to keep failing.
That's what I think Good question.

[Wren_]

I think this allows a person to heal, and to grieve past losses so he/she can be healthy.

wouldn't the healing only happen if it was something that could be had although not necessarily in the same way; but if it's always wanting what is unachievable how is there healing?

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

wouldn't the healing only happen if it was something that could be had although not necessarily in the same way; but if it's always wanting what is unachievable how is there healing?

If we are talking about attachment issues here, there is healing when the therapist accepts and validates your feelings, helps you process not getting what you needed/having unmet needs, helps you rid yourself of years and years of built-up shame, opens your eyes to other ways to look at your past, helping you to better understand your current behavior, which can be and hopefully is an impetus for change.

I don't think that even if the therapist (or whoever) was willing to adopt me so I could have a father figure, that it would be healing either. I don't think, in my case, that I am looking for a replacement because it is too late for that. I am, however, looking for a trusted other (in authority) to fill a few jobs that parents usually do, of helping me modulate my emotions, and helping me become more and more emotionally stable. Another thing that needs work is in the area of trust. Some people have never surpassed the trust vs. mistrust phase, and a therapist can help with that.

It isn't a cure or a full healing of a wound, imo. It is more like a healing of ones self in order to help the person lead a more productive life.

[Wren_]

If we are talking about attachment issues here, there is healing when the therapist accepts and validates your feelings, helps you process not getting what you needed/having unmet needs, helps you rid yourself of years and years of built-up shame, opens your eyes to other ways to look at your past, helping you to better understand your current behavior, which can be and hopefully is an impetus for change.

is that what some t's do?

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

is that what some t's do?

Yes Many T's do some of this, to what extent depends on their training.

I think that the T will try to meet those needs and eventually teach you to meet those needs yourself or through other IRL relationships. If I understand correctly, over time your need for T will begin to ween , showing personal growth. But you can't go into it afraid of the fall, because in the end it will be a step down process not a full on leap over the cliff.

[Miswimmy1]

I am not sure that I understand the question. but i do think that some ppl who have trust issues (me included), would rather hav control and set up for failure so that they can say, "I knew that this was going to happen because this is what always happens" as a well of protecting themselves against vulnerability. So yes, I think that maybe it could be setting up for failure. I think transferance is when you really want to be close to t, no strings attatched (so vs wanting to be close to t but play the game of pushing them away and testing them).

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

I think that the T will try to meet those needs and eventually teach you to meet those needs yourself or through other IRL relationships. If I understand correctly, over time your need for T will begin to ween , showing personal growth. But you can't go into it afraid of the fall, because in the end it will be a step down process not a full on leap over the cliff.

So true!

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

I am not sure that I understand the question. but i do think that some ppl who have trust issues (me included), would rather hav control and set up for failure so that they can say, "I knew that this was going to happen because this is what always happens" as a well of protecting themselves against vulnerability. So yes, I think that maybe it could be setting up for failure. I think transferance is when you really want to be close to t, no strings attatched (so vs wanting to be close to t but play the game of pushing them away and testing them).

I guess that could be true, but not for me. I think what I question in what you are saying is that there is another person in the equation, and the other person brings their stuff into the equation.

I don't really think that testing T's is playing a game, but it is a normal human behavior (usually in children, unless needs aren't met) designed to build trust over time. Children can't just automatically trust their mother, they "test" the waters to help the learn how to trust, and to learn how reliable, consistent, responsive, etc. their parent will be. When this occurs, the child can then start to explore their environment. IMO, if this need isn't met, because trust vs. mistrust is of huge importance in relating to others, the now adults who didn't have their needs met go through the same process, just at a later age.

So, I think that transference issues (treating someone in the here and now like they are a person from the past) when dealing with attachment, -- trust vs. mistrust is at the forefront center stage. If one is trying to trust a T, but is having difficulty for either their own reasons or because the T was not trained in this area, then the T might try to handle attachment behaviors as if it were something else, causing more frustration, and possilbly an irrepairable rupture. I think vulnerability is an important factor in this process, as it can make the person test more in order to lessen the feeling. However, I think it continues to be in an effort to connect and trust someone. If this doesn't happen, and the T ends up giving up (or the patient), then it was a failure of the trust vs. mistrust process, but i don't think it was an intended failure at all.

[Miswimmy1]

Game was the wrong word... I didn't mean it like that. But I totally get what u are saying my t thinks I have given up on trusting. Because I went too long without having my needs met. Like a baby who cries and cries and eventually, learns that no one will come, and now doesn't cry anymore. That was the analogy my t gave. I wish whoever it was could see your logic.

[Miswimmy1]

I also know what u mean about going through it at a later age. I told t that I feel like a baby in a grown up body sometimes.