Are Ts supposed to tell you how bad you make them feel?

My T has told me that things I have done or said disturb him or make him angry or upset. Mainly to do with me putting my negative feelings and ideas about myself onto him. He was actually kind of teary on one occasion, and was emphatic that what I was saying was my stuff and not his (although I was sure he felt that way).

My sister had a T who tried to tell her that part of the reason why her real life relationships were going badly was because she was so negative and had nothing good to say ever. My sister exploded and was super angry, saying that therapy was supposed to be a safe place to talk about upsetting, bad things. But, in my opinion, the therapist had a great point. My sister did have huge problems with her real life relationships for that exact reason, a pattern which was re-enacting itself in her therapy. My sister refused to listen or see it.

So, sometimes, the negative feedback from a therapist is really to try to help you grow and see your patterns and that they affect your therapy and therapist as they do your real life. Therapy may be a safe place to express things, but by the same token, if the therapist never points out to your how your behavior, actions or words affect other people around you, are they doing you any favors?

I do not believe that normal rules of interaction are totally suspended in the therapy relationship. Yes, there are different rules, but I do not believe that you can behave badly in therapy and not expect it to affect the therapeutic relationship.

Sounds like this therapist is in the wrong line of work.

If he can't handle his frustration any better than this, he needs to take a refresher course before he causes further trauma to clients he's working with.

To answer the question directly, I would say emphatically, NO!

To receive negative feedback, or something you don't want to hear is another thing entirely. It's none of our business what T is feeling. That's his burden to bear and he has had years of training (hopefully) to learn how to keep his feelings separate from his clients'. If he cannot do this, he is in serious trouble if he is reacting to every single client. He would go crazy himself.

I would hope that every t has their OWN t. Mine does, and one time when she was telling me about how t's tend to attract clients that are similar to themselves, I said that must be hard to keep your 'stuff' out of the room. She said, that's why we have our own therapists, so we can keep our 'stuff' out of your 'stuff'. I said still it must be crazy hard. she said, "crazy fun!"

Thanks for all of your replies - I appreciate the input.

I'll give some feedback when I get the chance, hopefully later on today.

Bluey

My opinion is the same as everyone else's in that it's important to understand how our actions affect others, but therapy should always be about the client, not the therapist.

It sounds (from the original posters first post) that the therapist was overwhelmed and not trained well enough in how to deal with it. It really sounds like he needed supervision in regards to his practice.

Thanks for all of your replies.

stopdog: "I think it was the therapist's problem and not yours."
With regards to my T saying that he felt like he was the client, I agree with you stopdog.

Syra: "One is where the therapist, with a great deal of understanding, support, and genuine concern for me, and willing to work with whatever response I have, suggested (not asserted as truth) that I might not be seeing something. I was okay with that and it was helpful."

I would be ok with that too, Syra. I'm sorry for everything you've been going through. I hope you're ok.

Anne2.0:" I think that being able to hear negative feedback about yourself and/or how your behavior affects others is an important interpersonal skill. I think it's important because in the course of relationships, honesty and genuineness and openness requires at least a basic ability to tell others how you really feel or how they impact you, as well as allow others to tell you the same."

I agree, Anne. As has been suggested by others, though, it is the manner in which this information is imparted which determines whether it becomes a helpful experience or not.
A T can explain to a client that s/he became angry and why s/he reacted in this manner without displaying that anger to the client. A calm, relaxed demeanour will be more conducive to a healthy, open discussion between T and client than an angry, emotionally laden one will be.

elliemay: "I think, however, that there is nothing in therapy that can't be resolved if both parties are willing to talk about it. Usually that involves each party doing their best to take emotion out of it while simultaneously getting to the emotional heart of it."

I totally agree with you, elliemay.

button30: "She used to give me homework and I would do it but she wouldn't ask me for it next session but one time I didn't do it because she wouldn't ask for it well she did ask and that's when it started. She said I wasn't working hard enough!
She said she didn't work with clients who didn't want to help themselves. I have used and said I had done my homework but she never asked For it, she said this was a lie. And she stopped answering my texts and when I would leave voice mails she would she wouldn't answer. I said to her we are having a communications problem and why didn't you answer my texts she said she didn't have to answer anything. She terminated me after I said therapy wasn't helping me and I feel very suicidal."

I'm sorry that you were so damaged by this relationship, button. To me, being wrongly accused of lying is very difficult to handle.

Dreamy01: "When done well it could potentially be very healing."

I absolutely agree, Dreamy.

Lolacabanna: "I hope you find resolution in this."

Thanks, Lolacabanna.

My kids are cool: "So, sometimes, the negative feedback from a therapist is really to try to help you grow and see your patterns and that they affect your therapy and therapist as they do your real life. Therapy may be a safe place to express things, but by the same token, if the therapist never points out to your how your behavior, actions or words affect other people around you, are they doing you any favors? "

I agree with you, Mkac. My response to your comment is the same as my response to Anne2.0, above.

- "I do not believe that normal rules of interaction are totally suspended in the therapy relationship. Yes, there are different rules, but I do not believe that you can behave badly in therapy and not expect it to affect the therapeutic relationship."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, here. I wasn't accused of behaving badly by my T or anyone else.

Pfrog: "If he can't handle his frustration any better than this, he needs to take a refresher course before he causes further trauma to clients he's working with."

Thanks for your support, Pfrog.

TheRealFDeal: "It's none of our business what T is feeling."

Thanks for your reply, TRFD and if they do want to tell us about it, they can choose to do it in a calm manner.

artemis within " . . . one time when she was telling me about how t's tend to attract clients that are similar to themselves, I said that must be hard to keep your 'stuff' out of the room. She said, that's why we have our own therapists, so we can keep our 'stuff' out of your 'stuff'. I said still it must be crazy hard. she said, "crazy fun!" "

Thanks artemis within - your comment gave me a laugh!

Bluey

Wish I had been so clear and succinct.

Thanks so much Bluey. I'm okay. It's been a long journey, but I am recovering and growing. I do wince when it seems people assume it's probably the T who is right and the client who is not responsive/in denial whatever. Probably because that was might have been my attitude before it happened to me : / And now I've heard so many stories of (emotional) betrayals by therapists that I've learned it's not rare. I don't think I'd say it's common, but it happens.

I have a new therapist that I've been able to trust and has been very helpful in many ways. I've learned and grown. I'm stronger and weaker. I don't know if I would go through it again if I had a choice and knew what would happen - it would be a tough call. So many good things have happened, and it was easily the most painful thing ever to happen and still has negative ramifications that are complicated.

I'm very touched at you reaching out to support me, while this thread was started by your pain and I wished to support you and let you know I believe therapists can do what you described and you were not alone. Actually, I've been surprised and supported by so many who have discussed something similar. THanks for starting this thread.

That's interesting about T's tending to attract clients similar to themselves. Thanks.
After my last experience, I now have a question if I were to interview for a enw therapist. One question would be whether they are in regular and frequent supervision/person therapy.

I do think the most important thing is the way a T says it and the way they help the client deal with it afterwards. The first time mine got really angry at me, she wasn't just saying one or two truths that I needed to hear. She was yelling at me, for a solid hour, while I sat there completely shattered, crying in a way that I never cry in front of anyone (no tears left my eyes for the first few years of therapy). My T, my one safe person was really harming me. She went as far as comparing me to my mother (who I've never been anything like, and I've fought for that from a very young age). She also said I wouldn't be a good mother. Now, I don't think I'm good enough anyway and so it's just not going to happen. However, years ago when I had so, so much trouble talking to T, she played a game with me where you picked a card and asked the other person the question on the card, and I remember her asking me "what would you do if you were a mother" and I said "I'd dedicate myself to being the best parent I could be" and T looked at me quite sincerely and she said she really believed I would. T also compared me to her other clients, who are more responsive than me. She didn't even look at me at the end of the appointment, and she didn't acknowledge my apology for how badly the session went. She had opened her door and was talking to her next client (we'd run over time).

I've always been really grateful that my T has been one to share her experience of me, with me. It's always really helped me and it makes me feel like we have a genuine relationship, which I really need. My T has since said she's been too reactive towards me, and she should have taken a one month break from me. The whole time, I was always just trying my best, I was not pushing any boundaries or anything like that. I really do think it's okay and can be helpful for T's to share those feelings, but not if they're said in a moment of frustration, as a criticism, rather than an insight. T's need to be gentle with the way they handle this and careful to help a client manage their reaction afterwards.

It was an interesting question though Bluey, so thanks for asking...and thanks for wishing me well too. I've related to your posts in the past and thought you probably had quite a good understanding of going through something so difficult with a T too. I think I've stayed with T out of weakness rather than bravery. T has, at least, finally recognised that I've really fought for the relationship.

My T has done all these things.
Sometimes I have been hurt, sometimes not.
Sometimes I have complained, sometimes not.
Right now, it's not a problem.

PS:

Her excuse is that she "has to be real".

PPS:

In spite of all that, I still think my T is great!

Is this really countertransference? Could it be, for example, growing confidence in her job, or that she is learning to trust you?

It is by no means obvious that a T will always trust a patient right off.

Wotchermuggle: "My opinion is the same as everyone else's in that it's important to understand how our actions affect others, but therapy should always be about the client, not the therapist."

Thanks for your support, Wotchermuggle.

Syra, I'm glad to hear that you're doing ok. It's great that you've found a new therapist who you can trust. Thank you for your support.

Nightlight: "The first time mine got really angry at me, she wasn't just saying one or two truths that I needed to hear. She was yelling at me, for a solid hour, while I sat there completely shattered, crying in a way that I never cry in front of anyone (no tears left my eyes for the first few years of therapy). My T, my one safe person was really harming me."

This must have been horrible for you, Nightlight. It feels so disappointing, to say the least, when someone we've let our guard down with and trusted reacts to us like this.

"My T has since said she's been too reactive towards me, and she should have taken a one month break from me."

Thank goodness your T has realised this and has admitted it to you. Several times when I brought up something that my T had said in a previous session that had upset me, his response was that he couldn't remember, so the incidents didn't get discussed and worked through.

"T has, at least, finally recognised that I've really fought for the relationship."

This is great for both of you - I hope your T's attitude continues to be positive toward you.

CantExplain: "My T has done all these things.
Sometimes I have been hurt, sometimes not.
Sometimes I have complained, sometimes not.
Right now, it's not a problem.
PS:
Her excuse is that she "has to be real".
PPS:
In spite of all that, I still think my T is great!"

Thanks for your reply, CantExplain. When I look at the "big picture", as in our whole TR over the four years that I was his client, for the most part I still think my T was great, too.

Apart from the really comfortable rapport that we established with each other, he did things for me in his own time that showed how much he cared. Even though I'm still feeling angry and upset with him, I know that he will always be a very significant person to me.

Bluey

I've reposted this from yesterday so that it's easier to read. None of the content has changed . . .

"Thanks for all of your replies.

stopdog: "I think it was the therapist's problem and not yours."

With regards to my T saying that he felt like he was the client, I agree with you stopdog.

Syra: "One is where the therapist, with a great deal of understanding, support, and genuine concern for me, and willing to work with whatever response I have, suggested (not asserted as truth) that I might not be seeing something. I was okay with that and it was helpful."

I would be ok with that too, Syra. I'm sorry for everything you've been going through. I hope you're ok.

Anne2.0:" I think that being able to hear negative feedback about yourself and/or how your behavior affects others is an important interpersonal skill. I think it's important because in the course of relationships, honesty and genuineness and openness requires at least a basic ability to tell others how you really feel or how they impact you, as well as allow others to tell you the same."

I agree, Anne. As has been suggested by others, though, it is the manner in which this information is imparted which determines whether it becomes a helpful experience or not.

A T can explain to a client that s/he became angry and why s/he reacted in this manner without displaying that anger to the client. A calm, relaxed demeanour will be more conducive to a healthy, open discussion between T and client than an angry, emotionally laden one will be.

elliemay: "I think, however, that there is nothing in therapy that can't be resolved if both parties are willing to talk about it. Usually that involves each party doing their best to take emotion out of it while simultaneously getting to the emotional heart of it."

I totally agree with you, elliemay.

button30: "She used to give me homework and I would do it but she wouldn't ask me for it next session but one time I didn't do it because she wouldn't ask for it well she did ask and that's when it started. She said I wasn't working hard enough!
She said she didn't work with clients who didn't want to help themselves. I have used and said I had done my homework but she never asked For it, she said this was a lie. And she stopped answering my texts and when I would leave voice mails she would she wouldn't answer. I said to her we are having a communications problem and why didn't you answer my texts she said she didn't have to answer anything. She terminated me after I said therapy wasn't helping me and I feel very suicidal."

I'm sorry that you were so damaged by this relationship, button. To me, being wrongly accused of lying is very difficult to handle.

Dreamy01: "When done well it could potentially be very healing."

I absolutely agree, Dreamy.

Lolacabanna: "I hope you find resolution in this."

Thanks, Lolacabanna.

My kids are cool: "So, sometimes, the negative feedback from a therapist is really to try to help you grow and see your patterns and that they affect your therapy and therapist as they do your real life. Therapy may be a safe place to express things, but by the same token, if the therapist never points out to your how your behavior, actions or words affect other people around you, are they doing you any favors? "

I agree with you, Mkac. My response to your comment is the same as my response to Anne2.0, above.

"I do not believe that normal rules of interaction are totally suspended in the therapy relationship. Yes, there are different rules, but I do not believe that you can behave badly in therapy and not expect it to affect the therapeutic relationship."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, here. I wasn't accused of behaving badly by my T or anyone else.

Pfrog: "If he can't handle his frustration any better than this, he needs to take a refresher course before he causes further trauma to clients he's working with."

Thanks for your support, Pfrog.

TheRealFDeal: "It's none of our business what T is feeling."

Thanks for your reply, TRFD and if they do want to tell us about it, they can choose to do it in a calm manner.

artemis-within " . . . one time when she was telling me about how t's tend to attract clients that are similar to themselves, I said that must be hard to keep your 'stuff' out of the room. She said, that's why we have our own therapists, so we can keep our 'stuff' out of your 'stuff'. I said still it must be crazy hard. she said, "crazy fun!" "

Thanks artemis-within. Your comment gave me a laugh!

Bluey "