[tinyrabbit]

So the idea is that with therapy - or at least certain kinds - you respond as if to your parents, as you project attachment responses onto them. Why do we do that? Why do we respond to our Ts that way? What do they do that makes us do that? Do they have some secret trick that kicks off transference?

[unaluna]

There's nothing special about Ts. We react to a lot of people that way. I had a boss who used to wear evening gowns to work. Purple velour in the middle of summer. It triggered me to think my life was in danger, as it was with my mother. How could I trust a person with such obviously poor judgment? I got fired, she got promotions and still works there.

[tinyrabbit]

I disagree. It's a known phenomenon in therapy.

[stopdog]

Transference, from what I have read, can happen almost anywhere. In therapy, some styles use it for the therapy. But the phenomena itself happens outside of therapy too.

[skeksi]

We can experience transference with any person in our lives, it is true. However, the therapy relationship is relatively free of the "surface" type of interaction that takes up so much of the time we have with other people, so it can fast-track that sort of connection. What's significant about the therapy relationship is that it gives us a chance to break out of those familiar patterns--we enact them, as we often do with others, but since the T knows it is coming, they can gently help us change that pattern.

At least, that's how I see it.

[unaluna]

Yeah, sorry, I tend to give waaay too short of answers. Skeksi gives a good explanation - in t, it's a controlled environment, and you can examine your reactions. Hopefully you don't get fired, the t can handle whatever your feelings are without an equal and opposite reaction. Or at least, explain THEIR reaction to you, when you're ready.

[tinyrabbit]

Ah, so it's the fact it's acceptable and encouraged. That makes sense!

[unaluna]

Yeah people said to Freud, "But aren't you just doing what a friend would do?" And his response was, "Ah, but where would you find such a friend?!" For me, the transference was so strong and weird that I didn't even see it. I went to Ts for like 30 years, but it wasn't until I started taking the bus a few years ago that I realized that the bus schedule didn't change; it could be depended upon. My t 's feelings were kind of hurt that I saw this about the bus system but not about him! Then I realized what was going on - that it took me a few years to realize it about the bus because my parents weren't reliable. For me to depend on another human was unthinkable. I knew I wasn't reliable. I would stay up all night to work on a computer problem for work, but I wasn't dependable. It's a weird contradiction. It really helps to read other people here feel the same way.

Eta: you're doing wonderful work. I'm really enjoying your posts.

[tinyrabbit]

The first time I got angry with my T, I was grovelling and apologetic, insisting it was transference. He kept saying some of my criticisms of him were correct and I was staring at him blankly. Because I was raised to think I couldn't get angry and upset and if I did I was in the wrong and had to apologise. You don't criticise my dad. And if you do you apologise and that's just how it works.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I like what your T said, because sometimes it is transference, and sometimes it is real in the here and now.

[unaluna]

And the thing is, it's not about unraveling one episode, and who was right and who was wrong. But after many such episodes, and hopefully not dealing with them in the same crazy-making way that your parents did, but with your T treating you as a responsible human being with legitimate feelings - well, now I feel like I CAN speak up for myself, where before it was out of the question. I couldn't even change my appointment time, because what if I made it worse? That's fear-based decision making (my own term), which was how my mother trained me not to ask her for anything. Or ask anybody. All it did was make me passive-aggressive, which is just an ugly way of asking, because really how can you get thru life without needing anything from anybody?

[sittingatwatersedge]

I am learning a lot from this thread. Thanks all

[tinyrabbit]

Ah yeah, not being able to ask for things. It took me two months to ask my T if I could have a cup of coffee. Actually, I asked him if it was alright to ask him for a cup of coffee. I always think he is angry with me and we made a deal that I can always ask him if he is angry, but I never can ask as I just think he is.

I was late for our first appointment due to really bad traffic. I think my repeated frantic apologies and state of panic told him a lot about me.

I find it hard to express my feelings due to what my parents taught me and whenever I do my T then has to deal with endless apologies and panic.

[unaluna]

The cup of coffee, that's funny. Yeah, see how you're breaking it down into the individual steps? There's not time for that IRL. T and I still celebrate when I ask for a glass of water. Again, it took me a couple of years. No brag, just fact! LOL Sorry, but we used to say that when we were kids and I finally saw the tv show we stole it from, Walter Brennan on The Guns of Will Sonnett. No brag, just fact...

[tinyrabbit]

I only managed to ask for coffee as he was having one. I've now taken to asking if we can have coffee - ie both him and me - as it's easier than asking just for myself.

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Ah yeah, not being able to ask for things. It took me two months to ask my T if I could have a cup of coffee. Actually, I asked him if it was alright to ask him for a cup of coffee. I always think he is angry with me and we made a deal that I can always ask him if he is angry, but I never can ask as I just think he is.

I was late for our first appointment due to really bad traffic. I think my repeated frantic apologies and state of panic told him a lot about me.

I find it hard to express my feelings due to what my parents taught me and whenever I do my T then has to deal with endless apologies and panic.

Have you talked about how it might be possible to take in that you are "forgiven" for being late? That being late is a part of life. As my former T once said, when he was late, "Sometimes you get the green lights, and sometimes you get the red."

[tinyrabbit]

My T recently told me repeated apologies are annoying. It seemed mean at the time, though he said it kindly, but it helped a lot as I don't feel I 'should' apologise lots.

I've only been late one other time. I was only 10 minutes late and called to let him know I'd be late but was really upset when I got there. He gave me the full hour anyway, running over my allotted time slot by 10 minutes. Which said more to me than any words could have about whether he was mad at me.

[Gently1]

Hello tinyrabbit,

Over 20 years ago I worked with a supervisor and one day I came in late and after repeated apologies he said "Better a few minutes late than dead early"
When driving and I start to worry about being late I remember "better a few minutes late..."
G

[tinyrabbit]

I don't drive, I get the bus! I see your point though. But my dad hates people being late. Which is why I panic about being late to T...

[unaluna]

So your repeated apologies sound like you're really sayIng, "tell me it's okay, tell me I'm okay." We never got that from the family. It was a big switch for me when I could call and tell my T I was going to be late, or even that I had really messed up, as I did recently and completely missed the bus, without freaking out and feeling like a total idiot loser and the worst person in the world. And I feel so lucky that t gets what a big deal this is. I DO finally feel okay. Not that I'm ready for a bIg stress test!

[stopdog]

I don't bother apologizing for things like being late other than just a short "sorry" or even just "there was traffic" and then go on. I don't believe it matters to them and more than that would be overkill. Also, apologizing or other signs of remorse, does nothing to turn away wrath, so I don't bother with it much. I would rather go down for something I at least did.

[unaluna]

Yeahbut how do you FEEEEEEL about it?? Because when you put it that way, I was always late for everything. I didn't care, not really. But it would get my adrenaline up. But I didn't change my behavior. I couldn't see what I was doing.

[Sunne]

It's acceptance and consistency. The parent we needed but did not have as a child. We cast parts of ourselves aside that we're disowned by our parents. T's unconditional .... T'ness triggers those parts or needs we had that were not met and buried in childhood. And we grow.

This is how I see it and experience it.

So strange.

[tinyrabbit]

Stopdog - as a child I was always made to apologise. If I was angry and upset, I had to apologise and take it back. Probably no surprise that I then spent seven years in a relationship where, if I got upset, somehow I ended up apologising for it. So I learned that apologising would turn away wrath.

When really the thing I need to recognise is that there is no wrath. But that seems absurd to me. Because transference means I expect my T to be angry with me.

[stopdog]

I too was made to apologize. It just did not change anything. They would eventually get me to succumb and apologize, and still go through everything else. I just went the other way with it. I no longer can be forced to apologize where I am not sorry, where I did nothing wrong, or am not sorry enough or whatever.