[pbutton]

I thought I'd feel closer after sharing, because it has always worked that way in the past with this T. I've now apparently shared too much and cannot stand the thought of ever talking to him again. I sent him an email after the session saying that I felt like he hates me. He wrote back saying that I need to look at the situation and rely on my intuition and his actions to determine if he hates me. My reaction to THAT was to decide that I hate him.

Please explain to me why this is completely irrational. Because I KNOW it totally is. I need to think this through, instead of following my typical pattern of hurt and anger and avoidance. I need help breaking my pattern. That help can't come from him right now because he's my current target. Sigh. What is the point of these irrational reactions and feelings? If I could set them aside, I would be fine. There is NO need to act like a scolded 4 year old right now. He's a good T. But this is what I DO when I am hurt and scared. It is safer to be alone. I need to find a way to stop this pattern. Has anyone here been through something similiar?

I think the thing that I am really struggling with is that I thought sending the email and admitting my worry about his hatred was going to help. Instead I reacted to his response by deciding he didn't give a crap and that I am annoying. Maybe I'd have assigned that motive to him no matter WHAT he wrote back. Even if his response was a marriage proposal and request to run off and populate Mars with him. (Eeew.)

If I could find a way to FOLLOW his advice and look at the email and weigh the evidence, I'd see that he IS trying to help me and that I have to make the leap to have faith in the fact that he doesn't think I'm needy, whiny, and annoying. The person who thinks my emotions are needy and gross is ME, not him. I need to quit projecting. Blah.

Sorry for the giant wall of ramble. I'm struggling today. I scared the crap out of my H earlier. He made a gently teasing comment and I burst into tears. Which totally shocked the hell out of him because of course I am sharing NONE of this inner turmoil with him. Freaking inter-personal connections. More trouble than they're worth. (Yeah, I know. Not true. Feeling like a pouty baby and don't care.)

[tinyrabbit]

Why do you think you've "apparently shared too much"? Is that according to you, or something your T said or did?

I think Ts don't simply tell us what we want to hear all the time because that wouldn't help us. Your T could tell you a million times over that he doesn't hate you, but would you believe him? So, instead, he shows you he doesn't, through his actions, but you have to allow yourself to see it.

I think you're doing really well - there's a lot of insight in your post here. You're not just lashing out at your T without seeing why that might be happening.

I could do with taking my own advice. The other day, I told my T I'm sure he thinks I'm worthless, and that I know this is a belief, but it feels like a fact, and it's very hard not to believe it.

He didn't say: "You're not worthless," which was what I really wanted to hear. But the things he said and did in the rest of the session showed he didn't think I was worthless, so I found it a tiny bit easier to believe. If he just said: "You're not worthless," I wouldn't have to do any work to change my own thinking. Same applies if your T just says he doesn't hate you.

I think you need to ask yourself:
Why do you think your T hates you? Why do you expect him to?
What has he said or done to support that belief, in your view?
What has he said or done to contradict that belief?

Also, maybe you need to be angry with him right now. Maybe that's just what you need to feel, for some reason.

[unaluna]

The person who thinks you're whiny and needy is your bad introject - the part of you that learned to do it to you before other people could do it to you. The not-so-good mother or whoever.

I don't know what's going on. This is too much thinking for me. I haven't had to name this stuff since I brought the dolls in. Yesterday the doll was sitting with t, pretending she was alex Rodriguez, getting a tan at the beach and making millions of dollars and her hip was hurting. I couldn't do therapy without my dolls. They hold the extra stuff going on in the room, like algebra x y z. So you can figure out what truly is you.

[sunrise]

My first thoughts are like tinyrabbit's. Why do you think you shared too much? And why do you think he hates you? When you wrote "I've apparently shared too much", the word "apparently" stood out for me. It signals you may be making an assumption rather than going on something your T actually said or did. At your next session (none of this email stuff--only makes things worse when trying to communicate about super important topics), can you ask him what his reactions and feelings were when he read your journal? Give him a chance to tell how he felt instead of assuming the worst. That's respectful. That's part of a reciprocal relationship, which you have a chance to practice having by being in therapy.

Originally Posted by pbutton

Has anyone here been through something similiar?

I am going through a difficult situation with my T right now, which is not typical for us. Because of this, I'm worried this might even be the end of therapy. The relationship is too important to me though to just quit suddenly or not go to my session. I will see him today and we will discuss this. I owe that to myself and to us. I have been in therapy for several years so I know that avoiding problems and conflict (my pattern for years) solves nothing. Part of my learning and growth means going to the session and discussing the problem directly with him. It will be hard but I am going to try. So my first suggestion to you would be to go to therapy and discuss this with your T. Give yourself a chance to clear up any misunderstanding, to hear what your T's true reaction to your journal was instead of making a negative assumption that he hates you. So often our assumptions are negative ones. If you feel you have to make an assumption right now, how about assuming something positive--that your T is going to help you resolve this problem. That's kind of what I'm going to do today by going to therapy. T knows so much more about healthy relationships than I do, about good communication, about resolving conflicts. So I'm going to trust that if I go to therapy and try to talk about this, he will try to help.

[ready2makenice]

I feel like I'm in this situation right now. This just happened to me yesterday and I'm sorry you're going through this as well. I felt like I could have posted your thread,but back to you,I give you a lot of credit for actually being able to email,but I think you should have maybe waited until the next day to send it,to see if you really needed to send it.

What you can also do is when you feel angry or upset with anyone instead of lashing out you could email it,to yourself and reflect on it. I know its harder said than done but now

I'm trying to realize myself if what my T said was to hurt or help me. I also let T read something for the very 1st time and the reaction was bad.

I wish you all the best and hope it gets better,be glad that he responded as well,because some just wouldn't,he does care about you and in fact probably doesn't hate you.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by pbutton

What is the point of these irrational reactions and feelings? If I could set them aside, I would be fine.

Accept that, right now, you think/feel this way. Make a package of it and put the package aside until you are a bit further along and can unwrap it and look at it easier.

"Oh, it's that commercial again" and push the mute button on your remote control :-)

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Why do you think you've "apparently shared too much"? Is that according to you, or something your T said or did?

Thank you, your post was incredibly helpful. The reason I think I apparently shared too much is because he's told me that I really push myself awfully hard. So I push myself to share. I may have gone farther than I was ready to go. As I was leaving I felt very disconnected from him right as I hit the parking lot. Obviously that was coming from ME and not from him because I did not feel it in session.

I would believe him if he told me he didn't hate me. If I hate someone, I would find it impossible to tell them that I did not. I suppose not everyone works this way.

When I realized that I was thinking that he hated me, I emailed him and told him. I said I thought it was probably my issue with vulnerability. If I feel vulnerable, I start coming up with reasons to hate the other person to protect myself. I asked him if that made sense. He responded that he thought I was completely on the right track.

Rationally I know he doesn't hate me. If he did hate me, he's a good enough T that he'd refer me. Plus he really seems to love people. I know he loves his job. Deep down I'm not even worried that he hates me. It's an excuse so that I can reject him. Sigh. Why can't he just hate me and make this easier for me? How DARE he??

Originally Posted by hankster

The person who thinks you're whiny and needy is your bad introject - the part of you that learned to do it to you before other people could do it to you. The not-so-good mother or whoever.

This is completely true. I have used part of this comment for today's journal entry about my insanity. Thank you

Originally Posted by sunrise

My first thoughts are like tinyrabbit's. Why do you think you shared too much? And why do you think he hates you? .

I am going through a difficult situation with my T right now, which is not typical for us. Because of this, I'm worried this might even be the end of therapy. The relationship is too important to me though to just quit suddenly or not go to my session. I will see him today and we will discuss this. I owe that to myself and to us. I have been in therapy for several years so I know that avoiding problems and conflict (my pattern for years) solves nothing. Part of my learning and growth means going to the session and discussing the problem directly with him.

I think I shared too much because my defense mechanism is kicking in. Which makes me think I shared more than I am comfortable sharing.
If I really have to admit it, deep down I know he's fine with what I shared. I'm the one who hates sharing and now I want to run away from him to retain my "power".

Thank you for sharing your current situation with your T. I can definitely relate. I know I need to go talk to him. Part of me loves to fight that reality. It's much more fun to fantasize about quitting in the most annoying way possible. I need to keep working on this.

Originally Posted by ready2makenice

I feel like I'm in this situation right now. This just happened to me yesterday and I'm sorry you're going through this as well. I felt like I could have posted your thread,but back to you,I give you a lot of credit for actually being able to email,but I think you should have maybe waited until the next day to send it,to see if you really needed to send it.

I am SO sorry to hear that you can relate. This is NOT a fun place to be in. I am also glad to hear that you understand, it is nice to have company. Please keep me posted as to how things are going for you.

Originally Posted by Perna

Accept that, right now, you think/feel this way. Make a package of it and put the package aside until you are a bit further along and can unwrap it and look at it easier.

"Oh, it's that commercial again" and push the mute button on your remote control :-)

I love this. Can I wrap it up and THROW the package? That would help me. Maybe I can throw it and then run over to it and jump up and down on it about 50 times? And then mail it to T and make him deal with it? Could I be any more immature today?

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by pbutton

If I could find a way to FOLLOW his advice and look at the email and weigh the evidence, I'd see that he IS trying to help me and that I have to make the leap to have faith in the fact that he doesn't think I'm needy, whiny, and annoying. The person who thinks my emotions are needy and gross is ME, not him. I need to quit projecting. Blah.

You know rationally that it's really destructive to your relationships to tell people how they think about you, and you know you have to stop. It's totally normal for lots of people and it is especially understandable when you've grown up with people who gave mixed messages and told you one thing and acted another way towards you. And I think it's even more normal when you've experienced CSA, because there's no message of any kind (unless someone is totally honest to his/her victim) that squares with what the perpetrator does.

So I think you can respect your feelings and not be determined to change them, because I don't think it's really possible to *feel* differently than you do.

But what you don't have to do is act on those feelings. There is not necessarily a rational progression from "I feel like he thinks xyz about me" to "I have to quit therapy." You can acknowledge that you feel that way but you don't have to react, and that's exactly what it is, not a reflective, thoughtful response. You can say to yourself, "yeah, so what, I think he feels this way and I know it's not really true somewhere inside me where I store all my real feelings." But I'm still going to go next week to my session and carry on as usual (dealing with this stuff in therapy at your next session is optional, you don't have to). So I guess it's a version of "feel the fear and do it anyway." I think this is a Pema Chodron quote. So feel your non rational feelings and then go to therapy either. You don't have to change your thinking to just show up to therapy next week. That's where I think the change might just really live. And the benefit is that after you feel what you feel but still act rationally, your rational behavior starts to inform your thinking for the future, and the irrational thinking starts changing.

I think for most of us who live in our head, we think that we first have to change our thinking (or our feelings) and then we can change our behavior. I think it can work the other way around-- change your behavior, and watch your feelings and thinking change as a result.

The other thing that has helped me in these situations, when I've wanted to be able to do something that is inconsistent with my feelings-- and I will throw this out there in case it is helpful to you. But I have been trying for months to do a home program for some physical therapy and have not been able to get myself to actually do what I need to do. I recognized the connection to my history, and I just told myself that I wasn't going to live my life in any way cringing and flinching at the changes I needed to make, and that it was way worse to avoid something than to do it and take the risk that it would be painful. I sort of invoked my inner macho ninja and just told myself to do it. I didn't want to be impacted by my history in this way for one more minute. It was like it versus me. I won.

I also get the interpersonal relationships deal. I often wish that I could take my dog and go live on a deserted island. Then I feel like a horrible mother and wife because I want to abandon my family. My T I don't worry about, but I don't think I'd miss him either.

At the same time, reclaiming my softer self who feels most alive and whole when I connect with the people in my life, I know I want better and more satisfying relationships with people. T does help make that happen.

I am sorry it's so hard. You have worked so hard to get to where you are, and I think you could see this current difficulty as something that you never would have even gotten to before you made the progress that you did. You would have been so out of there way before you turned your journal over. So this is a problem generated by your own progress, congratulations!

[tinyrabbit]

I'm glad if my post helped. By the sounds of it, he's concerned about you flooding or triggering yourself. My T said something similar a while ago, namely that we were going awfully fast, and I was mad at him until I realised he was concerned about me.

I think it's very hard from a T's perspective as they want to stop you getting overwhelmed, but they can't tell you to slow down, as you'll feel rejected and hurt if you think you're being silenced. So there's no right way to communicate their concerns.

I'm sure you would believe him if he said he didn't hate you. But for how long? Only until the next rupture. By acting like he doesn't hate you, he's making you change your thinking a bit more than is comfortable. Because, as you say, it's EASIER to believe he hates you! It's new and dangerous thinking to believe otherwise!

I don't think your T hates you. If he did, he wouldn't be concerned about you pushing yourself, and he wouldn't be replying to you.

Now, you say you feel you shared too much. Okay. So the next thing to do is go back to therapy, and be in the room with the too-much, and see that it's okay, your T is still there, he hasn't rejected you.

[Abby]

Personally I'm glad you wrote a "giant wall of ramble"...not that I like that you are in pain but I learned a lot reading it (is it okay to admit to that or is that a bit inappropriate?!)...besides you've not seen rambling till you read my posts! But I am sorry you are struggling, it sounds very intense and painful.

I genuinely thought it was amazing that you could see that it was your fear making you feel your therapist hates you and could analyse it despite feeling everything so intensely. I think that's a lot already so perhaps it is too much to expect yourself to do everything and also follow his advice! Perhaps follow Perna's instead and simply let it be for a bit?

I get scared around people a lot and always assume they hate me and are going to attack me. It wasn't until recently that I even realised that I was projecting out and that the person that really hated me was me not them (well I knew I hated me but I didn't see it happening in these interactions as it does really feel like the outside world, I agree!). So yes, I've been through this a lot in real life and with my therapist. I always find the fear that she hates me is intertwined with a fear that she is going to lash out at me and so it is very difficult to go back to therapy and put myself in the "firing line" (or so it feels!). I feel for you.

I have to admit when I'm overwhelmed my logical, rational mind goes missing and there really isn't much I can do till everything settles a bit but on other occasions when I'm feeling afraid but also able to realise what I'm feeling might not be reality, I have started (on advice from here) to try to tell myself that I'm not needy/stupid/disgusting etc. I've only just started this and randomly (at the moment) it only works when I'm writing it down, if I'm out in the world still facing people it is a lot harder, but I've found that it can make me feel more in control and less wobbly. Perhaps it is like Anne2.0 suggestion (I hope I have this correct, apologies if not!) of doing the opposite of how you feel? I know it isn't much but maybe this could help you too?

Plus it is difficult but perhaps the more we're scared and don't get attacked/hated the safer we will feel? That sounds incredibly scary though! Take care of yourself.

[unaluna]

Anyway so I told my t today about this post and about the dolls and we figured out that A-Rod represented my mother - as long as he gets his, he doesn't care about anybody else. Not saying that's how he actually is, but the media is portraying him that way right now. So we talked a little about how important play is to kids, and how my mother would hover over me, making sure I didn't get out of line. She's always looking at me, it's enough to drive you nuts. Anyway, I'm doing laundry right now, most productive I've been on a Thursday afternoon in yeeeeeears!!

[feralkittymom]

(((pbutton))),

Not only do I agree with Anne here, but adopting the belief that "Yes, I feel this, but it doesn't have to connect to any action" is so freeing!

As I have, on occasion, said to a student in response to his telling me he doesn't "like" an assignment: "Then I have really good news for you--you only have to do it, you don't have to like it!" Embracing this is a huge relief!

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by hankster

The person who thinks you're whiny and needy is your bad introject - the part of you that learned to do it to you before other people could do it to you. The not-so-good mother or whoever.

I don't know what's going on. This is too much thinking for me. I haven't had to name this stuff since I brought the dolls in. Yesterday the doll was sitting with t, pretending she was alex Rodriguez, getting a tan at the beach and making millions of dollars and her hip was hurting. I couldn't do therapy without my dolls. They hold the extra stuff going on in the room, like algebra x y z. So you can figure out what truly is you.

Did you say b-a-a-a-a-ad introject? That sounds logical.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

You know rationally that it's really destructive to your relationships to tell people how they think about you, and you know you have to stop. It's totally normal for lots of people and it is especially understandable when you've grown up with people who gave mixed messages and told you one thing and acted another way towards you. And I think it's even more normal when you've experienced CSA, because there's no message of any kind (unless someone is totally honest to his/her victim) that squares with what the perpetrator does.

So I think you can respect your feelings and not be determined to change them, because I don't think it's really possible to *feel* differently than you do.

But what you don't have to do is act on those feelings. There is not necessarily a rational progression from "I feel like he thinks xyz about me" to "I have to quit therapy." You can acknowledge that you feel that way but you don't have to react, and that's exactly what it is, not a reflective, thoughtful response. You can say to yourself, "yeah, so what, I think he feels this way and I know it's not really true somewhere inside me where I store all my real feelings." But I'm still going to go next week to my session and carry on as usual (dealing with this stuff in therapy at your next session is optional, you don't have to). So I guess it's a version of "feel the fear and do it anyway." I think this is a Pema Chodron quote. So feel your non rational feelings and then go to therapy either. You don't have to change your thinking to just show up to therapy next week. That's where I think the change might just really live. And the benefit is that after you feel what you feel but still act rationally, your rational behavior starts to inform your thinking for the future, and the irrational thinking starts changing.

I think for most of us who live in our head, we think that we first have to change our thinking (or our feelings) and then we can change our behavior. I think it can work the other way around-- change your behavior, and watch your feelings and thinking change as a result.

The other thing that has helped me in these situations, when I've wanted to be able to do something that is inconsistent with my feelings-- and I will throw this out there in case it is helpful to you. But I have been trying for months to do a home program for some physical therapy and have not been able to get myself to actually do what I need to do. I recognized the connection to my history, and I just told myself that I wasn't going to live my life in any way cringing and flinching at the changes I needed to make, and that it was way worse to avoid something than to do it and take the risk that it would be painful. I sort of invoked my inner macho ninja and just told myself to do it. I didn't want to be impacted by my history in this way for one more minute. It was like it versus me. I won.

I also get the interpersonal relationships deal. I often wish that I could take my dog and go live on a deserted island. Then I feel like a horrible mother and wife because I want to abandon my family. My T I don't worry about, but I don't think I'd miss him either.

At the same time, reclaiming my softer self who feels most alive and whole when I connect with the people in my life, I know I want better and more satisfying relationships with people. T does help make that happen.

I am sorry it's so hard. You have worked so hard to get to where you are, and I think you could see this current difficulty as something that you never would have even gotten to before you made the progress that you did. You would have been so out of there way before you turned your journal over. So this is a problem generated by your own progress, congratulations!

Thank you SO much. You're right. There were a TON of things I found helpful in your post. I don't even think I could name them all. I need to make a list. Most importantly, I need to stop trying to change the FEELINGS and instead work on changing my BEHAVIOR.

I also love the inner macho ninja. More than you can imagine. It is me against this pattern & I will emerge victorious!

I have made myself a post-it note that says this is a problem generated by my own progress. So true.

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

I'm glad if my post helped. By the sounds of it, he's concerned about you flooding or triggering yourself. My T said something similar a while ago, namely that we were going awfully fast, and I was mad at him until I realised he was concerned about me.

I think it's very hard from a T's perspective as they want to stop you getting overwhelmed, but they can't tell you to slow down, as you'll feel rejected and hurt if you think you're being silenced. So there's no right way to communicate their concerns.

I'm sure you would believe him if he said he didn't hate you. But for how long? Only until the next rupture. By acting like he doesn't hate you, he's making you change your thinking a bit more than is comfortable. Because, as you say, it's EASIER to believe he hates you! It's new and dangerous thinking to believe otherwise!

I don't think your T hates you. If he did, he wouldn't be concerned about you pushing yourself, and he wouldn't be replying to you.

Now, you say you feel you shared too much. Okay. So the next thing to do is go back to therapy, and be in the room with the too-much, and see that it's okay, your T is still there, he hasn't rejected you.

I received an AWESOME email from T this morning and I feel very supported. You are right, he is worried about me flooding myself. I think that is part of what I need him for - he's got to remind me to be gentle with myself, because no way will I do it. It's still not a winning situation for him because I usually roll my eyes when he tells me I am being too hard on myself. I get mad that he thinks I am weak. That's not really the case.

Originally Posted by Abby

Personally I'm glad you wrote a "giant wall of ramble"...not that I like that you are in pain but I learned a lot reading it (is it okay to admit to that or is that a bit inappropriate?!)...besides you've not seen rambling till you read my posts! But I am sorry you are struggling, it sounds very intense and painful.

I genuinely thought it was amazing that you could see that it was your fear making you feel your therapist hates you and could analyse it despite feeling everything so intensely. I think that's a lot already so perhaps it is too much to expect yourself to do everything and also follow his advice! Perhaps follow Perna's instead and simply let it be for a bit?

I get scared around people a lot and always assume they hate me and are going to attack me. It wasn't until recently that I even realised that I was projecting out and that the person that really hated me was me not them (well I knew I hated me but I didn't see it happening in these interactions as it does really feel like the outside world, I agree!). So yes, I've been through this a lot in real life and with my therapist. I always find the fear that she hates me is intertwined with a fear that she is going to lash out at me and so it is very difficult to go back to therapy and put myself in the "firing line" (or so it feels!). I feel for you.

I have to admit when I'm overwhelmed my logical, rational mind goes missing and there really isn't much I can do till everything settles a bit but on other occasions when I'm feeling afraid but also able to realise what I'm feeling might not be reality, I have started (on advice from here) to try to tell myself that I'm not needy/stupid/disgusting etc. I've only just started this and randomly (at the moment) it only works when I'm writing it down, if I'm out in the world still facing people it is a lot harder, but I've found that it can make me feel more in control and less wobbly. Perhaps it is like Anne2.0 suggestion (I hope I have this correct, apologies if not!) of doing the opposite of how you feel? I know it isn't much but maybe this could help you too?

Plus it is difficult but perhaps the more we're scared and don't get attacked/hated the safer we will feel? That sounds incredibly scary though! Take care of yourself.

I was really touched to hear that my giant messy post actually helped you somehow. You are right - my T often tells me that I expect too much from myself. I guess there's a fine line between believing that I am capable and being relentless and unforgiving with myself.

I really like your suggestions. I am going to go back through this thread and write out all of the ideas and helpful comments. I agree, writing it out also helps me too. Thank you

[pbutton]

Hankster - I can't stop giggling at the Old Goat.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

(((pbutton))),

Not only do I agree with Anne here, but adopting the belief that "Yes, I feel this, but it doesn't have to connect to any action" is so freeing!

As I have, on occasion, said to a student in response to his telling me he doesn't "like" an assignment: "Then I have really good news for you--you only have to do it, you don't have to like it!" Embracing this is a huge relief!

I really appreciate this point of view. It's an angle that hadn't occurred to me, but it makes SO much sense. Yes, I feel this, but the behavior I truly want to respond with is XXXXX.

[stopdog]

I don't actually understand about any of this, but I do hope you are feeling better than you were.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by pbutton

Hankster - I can't stop giggling at the Old Goat.

It's totally my dad.

Your "onoes" always cheers me up too . That's me in my head.