[scorpiosis37]

I've talked to my T about the fact that I dislike confrontation/conflict and have had a tendency to be overly accommodating to others, say things are "no big deal" when they actually bother me, and do not set enough boundaries around friends flaking on me, borrowing things and then losing them, calling me late at night and waking me up, asking me for pretty extreme favors, and so forth. My best friend also says that I have a tendency to sort of take-on wayward friends and allow them to involve me in their issues, and that I need to extricated myself from these relationships. T says she thinks my best friend is exaggerating and that she isn't going to tell me to "cut" certain friends, but that I should set firm boundaries and that I should be more expressive when something bothers me. So, this is my current situation:

I have one friend in particular who is in a self-destructive place right now, she is lying to me about what she is doing (taking drugs, drinking excessively, drinking & driving, and pretending it's a medical condition), and every time she flakes on me she says she was "at work" (when her workplace is closed) or that she had another "medical emergency" (but, according to facebook, she was out partying). She was arrested recently for a DUI, and she called me to bail her out (after I tried to drive her home that night and she aggressively refused my offer). I did not bail her out, but she continued to call me all night, trying to get me to change my mind. The next day, I told her that if she has a real emergency she can call me but, otherwise, she CANNOT call me after midnight and, after learning about the DUI, I will not drink with her. That was my first attempt to set a boundary. Things seemed to calm down a bit, so when I had a get-together at my house, I invited her. After about an hour, she started acting very weird and she said she was in excruciating pain-- so I left my own party to drive her to the hospital. The hospital staff told me my friend was having a reaction to illegal drugs (which they found in her bag); it was not her appendix, lupus, MS, cancer, or any of the other things she told me it was. They did not, however, arrest her, so she was free to go. Since then, I have largely kept my distance. I've met her for lunch or dinner a handful of times, but I haven't invited her to any group events. She started dating someone new, and said she wanted me to meet her, so I agreed. She also told me her new gf is a T (not her T; she doesn't have a T), so I thought that might actually be good for her. I waited-- and waited-- and they never showed. Then, my girlfriend and I broke up, and I began doing some online dating. My friend's gf is on the same site, and messaged me-- and made it VERY clear that she was single and looking for a hook-up with me. I told my friend (obviously, I was NOT interested!). She said I was not the first to tell her that her gf was cheating (or trying to cheat), and she said she was going to break-up with her. She asked if I'd have lunch with her the next day to console her after the break-up-- I agreed. She stood me up again and, as I found out, she didn't break-up with her gf. They are still together, and her gf is still cheating on her. I called my friend and told her that I'm having some issues with the fact that she keeps flaking on me, is still calling/texting after midnight, and just seems really unstable. I told her I am concerned. She apologized, told me she was in a better place now, and wanted to make it up to me. That was about a week ago. It's currently Pride Weekend, I'm single (taking a break from dating), my two best lesbian friends are out of town, and I wanted to find someone to go to a specifically lesbian Pride event with me. I knew that I could drag my straight girlfriends or my gay guy friends with me, but I really wanted to go with other lesbians. So, I thought, hey, I'll see if she's available. She said she wanted to go too and would love to go with me; she said she'd also bring another friend of hers with us. I told her that she had flaked the last few times on me, so I wanted to make SURE she was going to show up this time. I told her that if there was a chance she would have to work, she wasn't feeling well, or she might decide to hang out with her gf at the last minute, to NOT promise to go with me. I told her this was very important to me (Pride only happens once a year!) and I REALLY wanted to go. I told her that if she wasn't available-- or she only might be available-- I'd ask someone else. She said 100% she could go. Well, what do you think happened? She flaked. She didn't even tell me she wasn't coming. She just didn't show up. I texted her, and about 2 hours later, she said she she was just leaving work. I texted her an hour later, and she never texted back. I had told my best friend all about this situation, and he had told me from the beginning not to even make plans with her. Luckily, he's amazing and instead of saying "I told you so," he got up from his nap, got ready, and went with me. I knew he didn't want to be there (at an all-lesbian event), everyone mistook us for a lost straight couple or "allies," and it was hard to really enjoy the event with the other women there. (Femme invisibility is already an issue for me, which is why it helps to go with other lesbians). Anyway, I'm pretty upset my friend bailed on me, in a totally disrespectful way, and really let me down. But, at the same time, I appreciate my best friend a thousand times more; it definitely made me see the difference in the quality of friends that I have. So, anyway, I slept on it, and this morning I wrote my friend an e-mail. I did what I THINK T would have advised me to do. I told her politely and calmly that I had set boundaries with her-- don't call me after midnight, don't "no show" without even a phone call-- and I told her that since she flakes much more often than she shows up and it affects my plans, as well as the plans of my other friends/family-- that I don't know if I can make any plans with her in the future. I told her that I am upset/hurt and that I would like to talk to her about this, if she wants to attempt to resolve things and continue our friendship.

I guess I want to know if others think I handled this situation well? How should I handle this friend, or other similar situations in the future? Do I do what my best friend thinks, and end my friendship with this girl? He thinks she is dragging me down and I don't need friends like that in my life. Is he right? I can definitely talk to T about this next session, but I thought I'd see what others think. I guess my hesitation-- up until now-- has been that I have mostly straight female and gay male friends-- and I like having some other lesbian friends to feel like I'm more a part of the community. I do have a few others, but they tend to have some of the same issues. I've tried to meet other lesbian friends who are more similar to me (professional careers, don't go to bars often, family-oriented, etc) and it just hasn't been particularly easy. I've met a lot of people-- and definitely have a lot of acquaintances-- but not a lot of close lesbian friends. But, at the same time, if I have a lot of close (non-lesbian) friends, and they're the kind of people who will wake up from their nap to go with me to a lesbian event-- shouldn't I be spending more of my time with them, and less time accommodating those who are flaky? I'm also trying to learn from T and do a good job of setting-- and maintaining-- my boundaries. So, I guess I am proud of myself for at least following through by telling my friend where I stand right now, despite my dislike for confrontation.

[stopdog]

I have friends that I like a lot in terms of when we are together we have fun, but they are totally non-trustworthy. I enjoy them when around them, and would help them out if it did not inconvenience me (which is different than how I would respond to other friends for whom I would drop everything and show up without question) but I do not rely on them or make plans with them or expect them to act differently than I know they will. It keeps me from being frustrated or disappointed.

[mixedup_emotions]

I think you did an awesome job of setting boundaries and confronting your friend. I'm sorry that she has let you down so much.

I'd imagine that it would be healthy to work towards expanding your reach to include healthier friends and not invest as much in the friendships that cause you distress. It doesn't necessarily mean that you need to drop those friendships, just not make them as much of a focus in your life.

You should definitely be very proud of yourself for how you've handled this situation. Go you!!

Good Job!

I think you are handling it well by distancing yourself and setting some boundaries.

As you continue to work on your process, you will find it easier and easier to drop the drama and trauma junkies from your life so that you can focus on your own healing and recovery without all that extra unnecessary baggage.

I still love and care about my friends who are still lost in their garbage, but not enough to wallow in it with them any longer.

That's healthy behavior towards self, and your mind, body and soul will forever appreciate it!

I am sorry for stereo typing here but I have found, in my experience the majority of lesbians to be flaky and unreliable and try not to have them as friends. I have stopped friendships in the past year because they have let me down at the last minute, not once but twice and I may be harsh but I will only be friends with people who want to be my friend and spend time with me. I am worth more and my time should be respected and so should yours. You deserve better.
The only way your friend is going to learn I'd the hard way and that is to cut all contact, then she will realise if she misses you or not. You are setting boundaries but I think with this friend it's a little too late. She has no respect for herself( using drugs, drinking) so she isn't going to respect you or anyone.
I urge you to spend time with your real friends, the ones who respect and cherish your friendship.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have friends that I like a lot in terms of when we are together we have fun, but they are totally non-trustworthy. I enjoy them when around them, and would help them out if it did not inconvenience me (which is different than how I would respond to other friends for whom I would drop everything and show up without question) but I do not rely on them or make plans with them or expect them to act differently than I know they will. It keeps me from being frustrated or disappointed.

Thanks, stopdog! So, this is my question: if you do not make plans with these friends, how do you see them so that you can still have fun with them, when it does not inconvenience you? I was trying to do precisely what you just described with this friend-- and I guess I couldn't make it work. We aren't in the same circle/no shared activities, so I think deciding not to make plans with her would mean no longer being friends. If I can't count on her to even show up for lunch, how do I work with that?

[stopdog]

I do things like if they say they would like to get together, I say I will be at a coffee shop from 2-4 and hope they can stop by. I don't change my coffee shop for them or the time and I have a book or grading whatever else to do while there, and if they stop by - then we have a great time for awhile and then go our separate ways. Or that I am going hiking at X place and time and if they would like to join, come on. If they show up at X time, then great, but if not, I don't wait at the trailhead for them. I am reasonably certain if they said "I will be at X place at Y time" it would never happen so even if they say it, I just reiterate my place and time frame and if they show up, great and if not, no worries, as a couple of examples.
Is that what you were asking?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

I am sorry for stereo typing here but I have found, in my experience the majority of lesbians to be flaky and unreliable

I appreciate your response and I do understand the point you are trying to make-- and I agree with the comments you made about my friend and the way you handle some of your own friendships. I think there is, however, just as much of a tendency for straight people to be flaky as there is for lesbians. As a lesbian, I really dislike stereotypes; after all, they do not apply to me and they make it easier for people to discriminate. I think the difficulty I've had since moving to a new city and meeting lesbian friends like myself is the fact that they are invisible. It's impossible to tell whether the woman jogging next to me, the woman who did my taxes, the woman typing on her laptop at the cafe, or the woman picking up her child from daycare happens to be a lesbian. The way we go about "seeking" other lesbians (for dating or friendship) is often through the internet, bars, "lesbian only" activities/spaces, or "stereotypically lesbian" activities (dog parks, softball teams, etc). If we're looking to make friends who don't fit those stereotypes, those probably aren't the places to find them. In the previous places I lived, I never had any difficulty meeting other fun, reliable, trustworthy, intelligent lesbian friends. I think the difference is that I grew up in my first city, and I went to college in my second; it's different when you're a working, adult transplant. Meeting people and finding those with whom you really click just takes longer, especially if you happen to be in a minority, looking for others of that minority. Of course, despite not having a wide circle of close lesbian friends, I do have a lot of (healthy, reliable, fun) friends in general, which I am grateful for. My best friend is a perfect example! I was just frustrated by this one friend, and using it as a way to put into action what my T and I have been talking about re: boundaries and confrontation.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do things like if they say they would like to get together, I say I will be at a coffee shop from 2-4 and hope they can stop by. I don't change my coffee shop for them or the time and I have a book or grading whatever else to do while there, and if they stop by - then we have a great time for awhile and then go our separate ways. Or that I am going hiking at X place and time and if they would like to join, come on. If they show up at X time, then great, but if not, I don't wait at the trailhead for them. I am reasonably certain if they said "I will be at X place at Y time" it would never happen so even if they say it, I just reiterate my place and time frame and if they show up, great and if not, no worries, as a couple of examples.
Is that what you were asking?

Yes, that's actually really helpful. I think I will use that in the future. I also grade at coffee shops and I frequently run around the lakes and do other things like that where I can say "hey, join me, if you want, at x time" and then don't have to worry about whether or not they show up. Thanks.

[scorpiosis37]

Wow! So how crazy is this? It's Pride, my best friend and I are sitting at a cafe on our computers (following the parade), I'm wearing a rainbow bracelet that he forced on me so I would "look gay," and a girl just came over and introduced herself to me. She chatted me up, and gave me her number. I'm not entirely sure if she's looking for a friend or a date-- as I recently decided to stop "looking" to date anyone-- but we had a good conversation and she seemed like someone who would be fun to hang out with. Did I just make myself a new lesbian friend while writing this thread?

Way to go Scorposis, good things come to those who wait. I am a firm believer in the saying if you keep doing what you have always done, you will get what you have always gotten. Because you changed your boundaries something good happened, or maybe it's a coincidence either way, go you!

[Perna]

I guess I don't see what you see in this friend that you want her as a friend? She doesn't seem to reciprocate on any friend things, she's not helping you when you need it, is not there when you ask for her to be, is lying to you and causing problems in your life, etc. It looks to me as if you like this friend because she appears to need you and you like (we all do) feeling needed?

There's nothing wrong with liking to feel needed and even in "using" your friend for this benefit but I would have to measure how much my feeling I am needed that I get from this one friend matches up to how much aggravation she causes in my life, if I feel it is a good enough trade for me?

Your use of boundaries cannot in any way change your friend. It sounds like she is just going to wander around you/your perimeter looking for a way in to what she wants, someone else to manage her life for her. Do you want to spend your time and energy constantly monitoring and fixing your boundaries so she cannot maneuver to such a place where you are doing something for her "free"? Most real "friends" don't need boundary monitoring, they are conscious of you and interested in you and "where" you are and adjust themselves, monitor themselves in relation to you.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by Perna

I guess I don't see what you see in this friend that you want her as a friend? She doesn't seem to reciprocate on any friend things, she's not helping you when you need it, is not there when you ask for her to be, is lying to you and causing problems in your life, etc.

She USED to be a good friend, and I miss hanging out with that person. She used to be reliable, we used to have reciprocal conversations, and she used to be a lot of fun when we'd go places together. We really did have a lot of good times hanging out. Unfortunately, due to her drug/alcohol use (and pathological lying, which may have been there before, but I didn't know it), the friend I used to have-- or thought I had-- isn't there anymore. I don't like who she has become at all. So, at this point, you're right-- the aggravation isn't worth it anymore. I think the reason why I'm hesitant to end any friendships-- even those that are not benefiting me-- is because of leftover abandonment issues from my childhood. When I was growing up, no one was there for me. My own biggest fear is that anyone i care about will leave, just like all the adults did when I was growing up. As a result, I feel incredibly guilty about "abandoning" a friend in need. Had she not previously been a good friend, I would have extricated myself from the situation long ago. I've held on and tried to help her because I guess I feel a sense of obligation. My best friend has told me from the beginning that I have no such obligation-- the problem is that I FEEL like I have one. I suppose I have to realize that I don't "owe her" anything just because we used to be good friends. If she isn't willing to seek help for her problems (and is lying to me about them), there really isn't anything I can do. I just feel bad because she doesn't really have anyone else in her life who cares about her and wants to help her. I was encouraged when she said she met her gf and hoped she'd help her turn her life around but, as it turns out, the gf (a T) is the one doing drugs with her, and then cheating on her. I just felt bad for my friend and I wanted to help. I do think I do tend to get "sucked in" a little bit to other people's problems, and that is something I am trying to work on. I think it's hard for me to just cut ties because of the abandonment stuff growing up; I don't want to do to someone else what was done to me. However, I have to realize that my family failing to take care of me and protect me when I was a child is not the same as me dissociating myself from an adult friend with an addiction.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

When I was growing up, no one was there for me. My own biggest fear is that anyone i care about will leave, just like all the adults did when I was growing up.

I understand this fear, I faced it with my stepmother who was abusive when I was growing up. She became elderly/senile and I kept trying to be good to her like I wished she had been to me growing up.

The problem was, my stepmother was senile and didn't "know"/care in the sense that I could have gotten comfort from. Yes, once we had a "moment" that made a lot of my efforts worth it but mostly we would get in an argument on the phone and she would hang up on me, call me in 5 minutes and start the same conversation over again as if nothing had come before It was great for me because I got an opportunity, knowing what was coming, to change my response and learn from my "mistakes" and learn to say things in a way that was more caring and less antagonistic.

But this girl and her "senility" is not affording you any of that? She can't help you feel better about yourself by responding in such a way that you know it is "worth" it to act well yourself. You need to find friends who give as well as take in order to heal that hurt spot within you.

[scorpiosis37]

I mentioned in my initial post that I wrote my friend an e-mail, politely expressing how I felt about her repeatedly flaking on me and not respecting my boundaries. I was trying to do what my T has taught me; be honest and expressive when conflict arises in a relationship, in an effort to work through the impasse and strengthen the relationship. Well, it turns out that, in this instance (as many of you surmised), there will be no working through. My friend has elected not to reply to my e-mail. Apparently, she told a mutual acquaintance that I was a "*****" for writing the e-mail, especially since she is having such a hard time with her "medical conditions." Our mutual acquaintance is well aware of the actual situation, so I'm not concerned about this girl impacting my reputation. Her behavior just makes my decision for me. If she doesn't care to reply to my e-mail, in which I told her I was upset and hurt by her actions, then that's it. It is a little disappointing when I use a strategy that T taught me-- like how to handle conflict-- and then get an unfavorable result. But, at the same time, I'm secure enough that I know I did the right thing and I will still continue to address conflict in the same way in the future. In fact, next time, I will probably do it sooner so that I don't waste as much time investing in a friendship that isn't equal with respect to give and take.

[feralkittymom]

I think people show us who they are, but we often don't want to accept it for our own, usually unhealthy reasons. And that when we clear out our own cobwebs, edit our circle to those who support our healthiest selves, new folks find their way to us.

Maybe your encounter in the coffee shop was reflective of that!

[Bill3]

It is a little disappointing when I use a strategy that T taught me-- like how to handle conflict-- and then get an unfavorable result.

This does not strike me as an unfavorable result.

Stick to your boundaries, though, if/when she reconsiders and calls/texts you after midnight again.